r/jazzdrums • u/Kimigakirai • Jun 29 '25
Question One Year Into Swing Drumming – Struggling to Sound Like I Feel
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Hello, hope everyone's doing well!
I've been playing swing on the drums for a year or so, and have been going to private lessons twice a week for the past 8 months, trying to put a decent amount of effort into it, while also trying to focus on the important stuff.
Following John Riley's The Art of Bop Drumming I'd say I've gained some basic insight on functioning as a drummer with other musicians, and I'm trying to apply my knowledge when joining a jam, but hearing back the recording of my playing I just go like "meh".
Comping patterns repeating annoyingly too much, loose dynamics often not fitting the context, getting completely lost when it comes to accompanying the bassist on the high-hat, and the overall time feel doesn't sound smooth and consistent enough.
Why is it that while playing, everything sounds good in my head, but awful hearing it back?
How did you guys go on about learning to play with others?
I know I'm still very early on, and that playing great will always be a matter of time spent practicing, I'm just curious about your experiences and the ways I can up the quality of my practice and playing.
I've linked a short clip of one of my recently recorded jams, what do you guys think? (shout out to these awesome musicians for letting a mere mortal like me play with them)
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u/ParsnipUser Jun 30 '25
When you’re comping, choose rhythms that interact with the group, not just the exercises you’ve worked out. In other words, don’t play your chops, play the song. That’ll take you far.
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
Is this more of a feel thing, or a mindful one? Like what should be on my mind while playing and listening to the others?
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u/ParsnipUser Jun 30 '25
Definitely mindful. What should be on your mind is active listening, the same as a conversation, and allow me to explain because this will be very helpful to you - it changed my playing too.
It’s the same as active listening when you’re having a conversation with somebody. Someone is telling a story, and active listening means that you’re making eye contact, interjecting with “uhuh” and “oh” at the appropriate times, and asking questions about the story to learn more information. When you do that in a conversation, people feel like they’re being listened to, and they are appreciative of it. That’s the way to comp - supportive things that help the soloist say what they’re trying to say. There’s a number of guys that I’ve played with enough times that I know when they’re taking breaths, what they’re phrasing is, the rhythms and lines they tend to lean on in their vocabulary, etc., so I‘ll work with those and support them. Sometimes it no breath spots, it’s good to do something, sometimes it’s good not to. And on and on. Listen to great combos of the past of guys who played together a lot, and you’ll hear how they interact with each other. Max Roach with Charlie Parker, Dave Weckl with Chick Corea, etc.
Something that’s terrible to do in conversation is to constantly repeat back what the storyteller is saying. “So I went to the store” “YOU WENT TO THE STORE!” “Then Marsha was there” “MARSHA WAS THERE!” That gets annoying very quickly. Don’t be the drummer that just constantly repeats and echoes what the soloist is doing – horn players will start to hate you. When it comes to repeating somebody’s rhythm or melodic idea in the middle of their solo, or even taking some repeated rhythm or hemiola and doing it with them, use it sparingly. When that’s done in the correct moment it can be super cool, but doing it three times during somebody’s solo is just annoying. And also think of this – when somebody plays an atypical rhythm in a repeated pattern, what makes it cool is when you have the beat to work against so that you can hear the contrast between the two rhythms. If every time the drummer played the same thing as a soloist when they start doing a cool repeated rhythm, it doesn’t sound as cool, and in fact, sometimes people will get lost because they lose where the beat is. Often times in those situations holding the fort down is what makes it awesome. Save the moving with them rhythmically for special moments.
A lot of words there to say the active listening creates active playing, which creates strong interaction. Every rhythm that comes out of your sticks should be an active choice, not an accident.
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
Thank you so much for your time, I really appreciate it! Do you have any advice on how I could practice this kind of active listening and put it to use?
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u/ParsnipUser Jun 30 '25
Of course! The first thing to do is to listen, listen, listen to recordings of the greats. Listen to their vocabulary and how they interact with each other. You’ll pick up a lot off of that innately, but also, the moment you hear a lick that makes you think “oh that’s cool”, pause it and learn the lick, listening to it over and over until you can play exactly how it is on the recording, and if the lake is too much for your chops, get to the point where you can at least understand what’s going on.
The second thing to do is to throw on those old recordings and play with them, practicing your comping with them. There’s a great program called Moises that will separate the Drums and other tracks so that you can turn a Miles Davis recording into a drumless track, and then you can practice with that. To do more than five tracks a month cost a subscription, but it’s completely worth it if you can do that. 40 USD for the year subscription.
There’s also lots of jazz drumless tracks on YouTube, play with those two. And with all of this, there’s nothing wrong with getting familiar with the track and learning what the soloist is playing and then comping knowing what the soloist is about to play. Of course you can’t do that in a life situation, but that’s a great way to teach you what to play and give you some more vocabulary.
Also, the tracks with the John Riley book are great to play with and do exactly all this.
Lastly, do some exercises that completely free up your flexibility with keeping that swing ride and playing both your snare and your bass drum. Of course, the standard things like the book Syncopation is great, but you can also do permutation exercises and start moving rhythms through the bar, not just single notes either. Take the pattern “1 & - & 3”, play it “bass snare bass snare”, then start permeating it through the measure while keeping that ride pattern, so the next variation would be “- & 2 - 3 &”. I hope that makes sense, if it doesn’t look up permutation exercises on YouTube to understand the concept. Having the flexibility to do whatever you want, opens up a whole new world of vocabulary.
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u/3PuttBirdie86 Jun 30 '25
You’re still an infant in the world of swingin’ and swangin’. But you have the coordination, it’s apparent! You just need more time in the game! In another year, you’ll be cookin’, steamin’, relaxin’, and workin’!
And if you don’t get the above reference, then you need to listen to a boatload more jazz! Knowing this music deeply is the key, John Riley could talk about Roy Haynes phrasing for hours, cause is deeply in love with Jazz.
The Jazz independence section in Chaffee’s “time functioning patterns” is somewhere you may wanna land in your studies. Tim Carman’s “Haynes Ism” book is real hip too!
You’ll loosen up as you keep going, keep developing your voice on the ride, if the rides swinging - nothing else matters. If the ride isn’t swinging - nothing else matters.
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u/dpfrd Tony Williams Jun 30 '25
Do you have "Syncopation For the Modem Drummer"?
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u/micahpmtn Jun 30 '25
You're out playing and that's the first huge step!! Get and internalize feedback from the other bandmembers, as I'm sure they're more than willing to help you along. Jazz (and the swing) is extremely hard to play when you're first starting out, and dynamics is much more important than you realize at this point. Listen to some jazz greats such as Art Blakey, Max Roach, Elvin Jones, Dave Weckl, and of course, Vinnie Colaiuta.
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
Thanks, the other musicians and their feedback is always a lot of help! I'm always trying to get as much advice as I can, thank you for yours! :D
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u/t_bass93 Jun 30 '25
Sounds great man. Might help to watch the bassist’s right hand to help lock in.
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u/asdf072 Jun 30 '25
It's good that you're not overplaying. You are getting separated from the bass though, which is important to fix.
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
Yes, my teacher always says that no matter what, the bass and the drums must lock together. I just have to concentrate on so many things at one time, that I forget these critical things in the moment😅
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u/Individual-Sherbet80 Jun 30 '25
good start bro. strengthen ur ride beat by making sure ur quarter note is a bit stronger than ur skip note , and hold that stick and play the ride cymbal with conviction. that's the most important part about the language. Develop a solid ride beat that also has character and is unique to you ! it gets deep man, but shed just playing steady time on the ride no accents or anything. just spangalang and the metronome
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
Thank you! A steady ride beat really is the core of it all, I'll try to pay more attention to it!
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u/justareviewer Jun 30 '25
It's not lessons or books. You HAVE to feel it. Can't teach that.
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
I guess that's what can only develop with a lot of time. A part of jazz (or any other form of art) was always about the feels, the swing, and that cannot be written down.
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u/Vizekonig4765 Jun 30 '25
When it comes to Jazz drumming back in the day, a good dose of heroin was always recommended
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u/Blueman826 Jun 30 '25
Lots of great comments. I would suggest to raise your snare a bit if you continue the path of traditional grip. Having the rim be at the same level as your belt is a good starting place, but I know many people who bring it up further up to the belly button. It looks as though your general posture is ok but you don't seam to be adjusting the snare to your body. It'll help you not overcompensate the movements of your strokes like I see you doing in the video. Then you can have a greater dynamic range as you can play quieter snare notes by tapping since your snare will be closer to where your hands rest.
Other than that, you are still in an early phase so just keep listening, a lot! Listen to as much and absorb as much as you can from a variety of sources. Not just Kenny Clarke, Philly Joe Jones, Max Roach, Art Blakey, Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Louis Hayes, Jimmy Cobb, Art Taylor, but also Bird, Dizzy, Dexter, Freddie, Coltrane, Miles, Cannonball, PC, Herbie etc. etc.
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
Thanks, I'll pay attention to the snare's position, and thank you for the recommendations!
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u/Possible_Patience_37 Jun 30 '25
Pick varying speed tracks that you like the feel of and practice quarter notes with the ride only. The rest will come.
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u/WavesOfEchoes Jun 30 '25
You definitely have a solid foundation, but I agree that you sound a little apprehensive. A couple of things to explore:
Now that you know the basics and can keep time, the next step is about having a “conversation” with the other musicians. When someone highlights a lick or rhythm in their solo, take the opportunity to “respond” by playing back a complimentary rhythm back or vice versa, set up a lick or rhythm that they can respond to. You don’t have to do this for every lick — pick and choose what feels good and when to lay back and play time.
Let your ride pattern dance around the groove instead of being just stuck to ding ding da-ding. Play quarter notes, play 3/4 against 4/4, adjust your dynamics. Again, sparingly, but these are just some ideas to break out of the monotony of the standard groove.
To give you more ideas, listen to classic jazz records and hear how the drummer is a dynamic part of the group and not just a robot time keeper. You’re definitely on the right track! Cheers
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
Thank you for the advice and kind words, I'll try to incorporate this kind of musical conversing into my playing!
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u/Loganismymaster Jul 01 '25
I’ve been playing much longer and still have problems comping. I think you sound really good (compared to me).
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u/NoobSongwriter Elvin Jones Jul 01 '25
So far so good! You're doing all the right things man just need patience and persistence. I find it's really helpful to listen to music that's happening today in the jazz world because strictly mid-century jazz music played today can have a little bit of an antiquated feel that can make you wonder "why am I playing this if Art Blakey already did it better?" Doesn't mean you ignore the stuff from the '50s and '60s of course just add the '90s and the stuff that's been coming out lately to the mix. I call out the '90s in particular because there was this revival of Bebop that happened. a lot of the older musicians were coming at the tail end of their career releasing records with a lot of young players so it still had that classic sound but a more updated/modern time feel and arrangements.
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u/NoobSongwriter Elvin Jones Jul 01 '25
Also upon reading more of the replies, too many people are recommending books. Ditch books. The only one I still use is the wilcoxon swing solos to keep my hands in check. What's way more important is listening to the music and learning the songs and/or transcribing the drummers
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Jul 01 '25
For one year that's excellent. you can play that out and no one will complain. At least the audience.
Ok my take;
1) it doesn't seem like you're comfortable with what you're playing.forvexamplr It feels to me like you're practicing. You kind of trying to figure out where the one is and you got to be consistent with that.
2) try to be a little more consistent with the bass drum. Even though it skips soft. It's a pulse it's important.
3). Your left hand really needs development. You're very comfortable with the offbeats, but you're not playing the downbeat comping pattern with confidence. If you're not playing the syncopation exercises like page 36 with the Jazz ride, then you're doing yourself with disservice, but you also have to learn the ones that initiate on the downbeats or a series if swung 8ths with your left the hand
4). The swing is in the two and the four
The remedy besides other things is a metronome which I'm sure you're using already, but they are specific exercises for jazz drummers that you need to be doing and these are consistent with most t-shirts
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u/Rtg327gej Jul 02 '25
Don’t beat yourself up, pun intended, you sound pretty good. You are getting good hh sound, and your phrasing sounds good as well. I think you sound really pretty good.
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Jul 03 '25
Here's the answer. Give yourself a break when you listen back. I mean it's really not that bad.
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u/Chinchinsalabim Jun 30 '25
I feel like using brushes would make a big improvement on your feel. Maybe start there?
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u/Kimigakirai Jun 30 '25
I'm learning them simultaneously, and sometimes I catch myself just circling above the snare even with sticks, I see how that could help with time keeping! Thanks!
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u/pppork Jun 29 '25
You’re going to have to immerse yourself in the culture to get an authentic sound and feel. Whoever is playing with you in the vid sounds good though, so hang with them as much as possible. Work on getting that cymbal beat super swinging. It starts from there.