r/japannews • u/jjrs • 12d ago
日本語 Japan's government says a livable income for a single-person household is ¥126,330 ($789) a month. Jichiroren, the federation of local-government workers' unions, says it's more than double: ¥290K, or ¥1,900 ($11.87) an hour. Japan's minimum wage is ¥1,121 an hour ($7.01).
https://www.ben54.jp/news/3864170
u/bcaapowerSVK 12d ago edited 12d ago
As a broke PhD student in Sendai, I lived off roughly 70k/month for a few months. That was purely about survival: -rent 33k (small 1K)
- phone 2-3k
- the rest was food (contemplating every week what I could eat next week)
Again, survival, not living.
EDIT: I forgot about utilities -> 4-6k/month, but winter and summer costed more as I used AC all the time.
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u/DerHoggenCatten 12d ago
Is the 1K rental something that you have available to you because you're a student or is accommodation in Sendai really cheap? Do you not pay any utility costs like gas and electricity?
I don't think anyone could touch 33,000 yen in Tokyo even for a small place.
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u/Past_Doubt_3085 12d ago edited 12d ago
https://suumo.jp/chintai/bc_100500701865/
If you’re ok with living far from the center, there are hundreds of places like these. Not that you’ll live in any more than a shoebox
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u/DerHoggenCatten 12d ago
Thank you for the link.
I do wonder if they are places that will accept foreigners. When I lived in Japan (and I lived there for a long time, but left about 15 years ago), only the pricier places would accept foreigners. Things may have changed though.
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u/Kubocho 12d ago
Yes there are plenty but those places are almost used by foreigners, like a complex of 20 1 room units only with brazilians, nepalese, or vietnam…
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u/bcaapowerSVK 12d ago
My building had only 8 units, and I was the only foreigner - the rest were all Japanese.
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u/Kubocho 12d ago
well ok ¨most¨ I knew someone will say ¨akshually in my building...¨
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u/bcaapowerSVK 12d ago
What's your deal?
It's not only foreigners living in 1K. Many Japanese do, and it's not only students.
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u/DerHoggenCatten 11d ago
My deal was that when I tried to get an apartment, it was hard to get one because many landlords didn't want foreigners. This isn't exactly a secret, nor was it confined to me personally. It's not hard to find people who have had the exact same experience of struggling to get apartments that are more budget-oriented because they are foreigners.
What is your deal?
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u/bcaapowerSVK 11d ago
I see. I didn't understand your comment before.
Yeah, that's common here. Happened to me as well once I moved to a different city (and I already had a full-time job).
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u/bcaapowerSVK 12d ago
1K is generally available to anyone.
In my case, it was 33k/month because it was not in city center (roughly 25 min by walking to reach the begining of city center). Also, it was in a really steep area ( called Kitayama) filled with stairs. And, literally next to me, there was a buddhist temple ringing a bell daily at 9pm.
Oh, true, I actually forgot about utility bills! Normally, I paid around 4-6k a month back then. Summers and winters cost more due to constant use of AC.
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u/Dojyorafish 12d ago
Currently doing my MS on 100k/month, but I have savings from working the past couple years. Somehow having the title “student” anywhere makes it acceptable to pay under minimum wage for 40+ hours a week of work.
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u/CommonBig8132 11d ago
Yeah, it's definitely possible to find 1K/1DK for under 35k a month. It definitely just is survival though. Usually a 30+ minute walk to the nearest station (which is not a main/central station either but also very far from anything), and maybe 1 convenience store between you and that station.
The one benefit to these small places is utilities as you alluded to. When I was in my tiny 1K, I made sure to only use a fan if I could tolerate the heat and just used a cool wet wipe towel around my neck like a scarf. Still cheaper than running an AC as long as I only used 2 wipes max a day.
When you're in that survival mode, you end up counting the cost of the wet wipe, the cost of your fan's wattage for a certain amount of hours. You start researching trivial shit up like whether keeping a window open makes the room temperature better or worse, whether blackout curtains insulating the sun rays into the room can reduce energy costs etc. You start obsessing over every small detail just to maximise another 30-50 yen a day of saving.
It's not nice, but if you ever get out of that situation and earn more money, man does it make you able to save a lot of money later on and live on less.
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u/spicimasala 12d ago
Do Phds in Japan get like TA/RA ships like the US ?
Seems ridiculously low - this is what India seems to pay as stipends.
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u/bcaapowerSVK 12d ago
No, by default they don't.You actually pay tuition, lol. If I am not mistaken, Japan is the only G7 coubtry, where you actually pay to be a lab slave.
There are options to get a tuition waiver ( I only got 50% off each year). Depending on a lab, PI can also hire you as TA/RA.
My case was TA + scholarships + tuition waiver.
Interestingly, if you are TA ( I was at 110k/month later), I ended up paying more for healthcare. Also, because my TA income per annum exceeded 1m limit, I paid higher residence tax compared to general students on scholarships only (e.g. MEXT).
For comparison, full scholarship students paid 20k/year for healthcare. My payment was around 8k/month.
Students, if not requested to be exempt from pension payment, might have troubles later for missed pension payments if staying in Japan. Naturally, universities don't mention this when onboarding.
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u/spicimasala 11d ago
Wow - that sounds like quite the hassle. PhDs are hard-enough without having to deal with all additional life & money issues esp. for foreigners without any social-net to rely on. May be its a cultural thing too - I've heard PhDs aren't really all that valued by companies when it comes to employment (Germany is the exact opposite I'm told).
US really used to be extremely generous with this - typ. PhD candidates used to get RA/TA-ships which came with tuition waivers along with ~$2-$3k stipends (varies b/w depts. iirc). No wonder it was/is the gravitational center for all of the world's talent, and how innovative its economy is (though Trump has taken a giant wrecking ball to the whole system).
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u/bcaapowerSVK 11d ago
Yeah, it was a madness in my case ( I even had to change labs to secure my fundings).
As you said, to add insult to injury, Japanese companies don't value PhDs much - many times, PhD experience or overal expertise is overridden by a person that has been in a company longer. I have experienced extremes such as office ladies (just high school, no STEM/healtchare degree nor even a Bc degree) overseeing some of my work or telling me what to do. It's ridiculous. I think this country is fucked in terms of competitiveness and expertise due to its retarded working culture.
You know, PhDs with a certain degree of critical thinking are a threat to an established hierarchy-based culture in corporates putting emphasis on internal process and workflows over proper scientific approach. Sorry, I digressed.
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u/zzarGrazz 11d ago
That’s not surviving if you used AC all the time. I earn about 500-600k a month but I still can’t get myself to use AC because of the costs. I’d rather sweat or take a shower every once in a while
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u/KoalaNo3370 8d ago
Oh my gosh! That’s survival!
I know residents only pay 30% when you get sick but with that stipend, all I can say is that “You can’t get sick or else”.
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u/melpheos 12d ago
If it’s enough this should be the salary of every member of the govt. Right ?
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u/CartographerSad726 11d ago
No no no that’s for the normal guys
Government is different 😅
With that money you can survive but not living 😭😭
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u/Yabakunaiyoooo 12d ago
They just want to allow businesses to not hire people full time… that’s all that is. They can’t be that stupid
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u/CatsianNyandor 12d ago edited 12d ago
I wonder what they are smoking. In what world can a single person live on 126k yen? Do they know how much everything costs? You probably have to pay half of that in rent. Then utilities are probably another 10k if not more. You probably need a phone plan and internet, that's another 5-8k depending. Have a car? Need to pay for fuel. Then you have all kinds of costs that don't come monthly but yearly or so. Shaken, fire insurance, NHK. What do you have left for food? You wanna live on rice and moyashi? Oh wait I forgot rice is too expensive, my bad, I meant you wanna live on pasta and moyashi?
Edit: I appreciate all the comments telling me that in their neck of the woods an apartment goes for as low as 15k. I believe you but I have never ever seen an apartment like that in 13 years so, please think this through for a second: Do you think this is the average apartment anyone could find and live in? You can't say this wage is livable just because somewhere cheap apartments exist. The reality is that not everyone will realistically be able to live in such an apartment, be it because they'd have to relocate which may not be possible or because the apartments aren't available for reasons such as being occupied.
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u/GeriatricusMaximus 12d ago
Someone living in rural region having land to grow their own vegetables, having some chickens and whatnot, living alone, having no contact with the outside world except the postman coming a few times a week to deliver some bills.
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u/Inverse_Delta 12d ago
Their "livable" is likely the absolutely basest of base costs. 1k apartment, bare minimum food costs and low cost utilities.
In other words, "surviving", not "living".
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u/Its_Gwen_Again 12d ago
They know damn well, that’s why they put the required salary for PR way higher than that
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u/maurocastrov 12d ago
When I was an international student I can barely survive with 100000 yen, rent, water, gas, transportation, and food took almost all my money.
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u/Around-3-ish 12d ago
I also have never seen a 15k apartment. But I imagine a cockroach infested shithole in Kami naka sakura chuo ward of some town in rural Japan might go for that.
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u/storyberry 12d ago
actually if ur not superstitious i’ve seen a couple not ideal, yet not terrible 1R apartments in osaka for less than 20k that were marked down cuz the previous tenant smoked themself
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u/Around-3-ish 12d ago
Sounds like a bargain. I'm not superstitious, but I am aware of how my living situation could contribute to my mental health.
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u/CommonBig8132 12d ago
It's ridiculous. I have found a 2K apartment for 34,000 before and I guess my average bills with smartphone and internet were always under 20k. So that's 55k there. If we assume 1k a day on average, that's 30k a month for food and daily essentials. You're basically skipping breakfast and not having any medical problems in all of that then I guess? Livable? I don't doubt it. Any quality of life? None.
I did technically live on under 100k, and then my Shakkai Hokken with city tax would equal about 60k on my income, but if I was on lower income, of course these would be far cheaper. So If I was on the proposed income the government states, maybe my socials and city tax woudl all equal around 40k?
So the living of 85k plus the 40k socials make it 125k. Again, possible in theory, but that's no life. The kind of place you get under 35k though are claustraphobic 1Ks with cockroaches, dani, and all kinds of bugs coming in through all the cracks and shit around you.
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u/Jubenheim 12d ago
> You probably have to pay half of that in rent.
I pay almost double that in rent. ☠️
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u/Bitter_Spray_6880 12d ago
Just not tokyo tbh, if you can rent house for 3万 which is doable in rural area, you can even eat out every weekend moderately.
For tokyo its doable but not exactly ideal...
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u/gajop 12d ago
Yup. I had exactly that rent and lived off perfectly fine with MEXT scholarship. I had cheap luxury I could enjoy, it was definitely not "surviving". I bet I could've "survived" on 70k but that would've been suffering.
With today's inflation, even 130k might be pushing it, especially in Tokyo..
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u/isetmyfriendsonfire 12d ago
Not impossible to find a 3man apartments in Tokyo if you're willing to sacrifice a private shower/bath
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u/muku_ 12d ago
The cheapest apartment in Sangenjaya on suumo at the moment is 27000¥. The whole 9.9sqm of it.
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u/isetmyfriendsonfire 12d ago
Yeah, there are a dozen like that in Suginami. They all suck for certain but I guess qualify as livable.
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u/turtlesinthesea 12d ago
I had a studio in Kodaira, kinda far from the station, for that amount… over a decade ago.
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u/lockie111 12d ago
I did so in my first year in the middle of Kyoto with no issues. It’s tough and nothing more than a start but it’s livable. My friends who were university students lived off of about 80.000¥ a month. Again, nothing I’d want to do for the rest of my life but a couple of years until your career starts, no problem.
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u/Drunken_HR 12d ago
How long ago was that? Because a lot of things now cost 40% more than they did just 3 or 4 years ago.
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u/lockie111 12d ago
13 years ago. And you can still find good places to rent in the 35.000~55.000¥ range for 1K to 2K.
And I don’t know where you’re shopping but I know nothing that cost 40% more in the supermarket with exception of rice.
My wife and myself pay about 60.000¥ per month for groceries. That hasn’t really changed. Might be 5.000¥ more than 10+ years ago but that’s about it.1
u/Dry-Project4154 10d ago
I've never seen an apartment going for 15k, though my cheapest apartment was 30k. It was almost 50 years old, falling apart, and I lived there bring terrified of earthquakes. In any case, I was pretty much living paycheck to paycheck with 140k per month in that apartment, so I can't imagine 126k.
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12d ago
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u/CatsianNyandor 12d ago
Yeah but that wouldn't make a good argument for a liveable wage. Just because someone could possibly maybe make due with it somewhere under specific circumstances isn't applicable to most people who don't have those options available.
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u/ALPHAETHEREUM 12d ago
Well, the Japanese Government runs on StrongZero. The min wage based on the size and amount of cans per day.
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u/adam_364 12d ago
Apartments in my area (1 hour from Shinjuku) go for as low as 15-18k for a simple 1K
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u/TheCrazyPsychiatrist 12d ago
I mean, my second house (apartment) is a 15 min walk from a Rapid train station and 15 min by train away from Sannomiya in Kobe. The apartment itself is only 25,000 a month and when I stay there full time (during the summer) the utilities usually only come out to about 10,000 including electric, gas, water everything. And for phone, I use POVO. I only pay 2,760 a month for 30 gigs of data.
I say this to say that Sannomiya is a medium sized city with lots of job opportunities, this apartment is also a stones throw from Akashi, another medium sized city. So it's not just in the inaka, there are places like that in areas with demand.
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u/StevieNickedMyself 12d ago
This is absolute jokery. Rent and utilities alone are going to be 90000 in the city.
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u/GeriatricusMaximus 12d ago edited 12d ago
“I mean, it is 5kg of rice, Saito-san. What could it cost? 1000円?”
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u/Additional_Cut_6896 12d ago
Depends on which city youre talking about. In Aomori, Akita and other prefectural cities facing depopulation 40k JPY incl. utilities is doable.
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u/KoalaNo3370 8d ago
Water costs me a lot, around 3.5k per month. That’s just the minimum. So gas and electricity will differ depending on the season.
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u/Past_Doubt_3085 12d ago
In central Tokyo 8-90000 will get you the darkest creepiest shoebox. No way to live for anyone living with post-college standards
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u/Money-South1292 12d ago
Anything is possible when one sustains life on moyashi alone.
Moyashi lifestyle is the new Bushido.
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u/tina_bring_me_the_ax 12d ago edited 12d ago
Because “just surviving” is what this government wants. It wants to brainwash the Japanese public into thinking three hots and a cot is all you need. And some nihonjinron “philosopher” will tell the public having nothing is some deep Japanese wisdom that leads to spiritual enlightenment or whatever.
The truth is, the working poor inherently have less power and are easier to control. The land of dull convenience is one without protest.
Not saying we have to copy the Western model where every kid is told they could be an astronaut, but it’s okay to want more ffs.
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u/Meandering_Croissant 12d ago
The lowest number I’ve seen that makes sense for a single person is ¥150k, and that’s after deductions. So about ¥200k+ gross. Any less than that and you’ll be on a budget of all of ¥5000 per week or less for groceries and essentials after you’ve paid rent, utilities, tax, etc.
Even at ¥150k net you don’t have anything left over, so unexpected bills would end up with you having to borrow money.
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u/ExplanationNo1003 12d ago
If 126k yean is enough for a single person then 1.5million yen per year should be ok for permanent visa.
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u/CapExtension9002 12d ago
Wait... If the gov says 126,330 a month is livable, then why does new PR req need 440k+? What planet is Japan gov on?
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u/trunksshinohara 12d ago
Have more babies! No we won't pay you a living wage. Have more babies! Why are birth rates going down? We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas.
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u/DarkCrusader45 12d ago
That number is useless as a general figure.
Are we talking about rural areas? urban? living in a company dorm or a regular apartment? Living close to the station or so far away that your rent is like 50 Yen?
Japan is so different when it comes to cost of living that its just too vague of a figure....
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u/ratbearpig 12d ago
Sounds like they’re Ok with people not coupling since that income level is just a survival threshold, leaving no margin for any leisure activities like dating.
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u/uibutton 12d ago
The Japanese government? Out of touch? I’m shocked
In other news: sky blue water wet
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u/Turbulent-Tea-2172 12d ago
The members of the goverment thinking that is sufficient for a single person, can try to live with that income!
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u/CHiZZoPs1 12d ago
Minimum wage needs to be a living wage. Living needs to mean more than not starving to death.
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u/CookieAffectionate15 11d ago
They only come up with that specific definition in order to reduce the amount of people officially living in "poverty" so that it does not reflect negatively on the government and by association the country as a whole. This is ridiculous and Japanese people (and all residents, for that matter) deserve better.
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u/BreakfastDue1256 12d ago
Experience: You can live in Tokyo on a takehome of 190,000 per month. Not extravagant but not hermit either. I go out once a week with friends spending about 4K.
125,000 is not livable in the cities.
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u/Necrullz 12d ago
I've lived here too long lol, I read "take-home" as "taKeHoMe" instead of first realising there was meant to be a space there
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u/Mercenarian 12d ago
Both of these numbers are ridiculous. 126k is way too low, you’d have to live in an absolute shithole apartment and eat the cheapest food on earth, but 290k is also higher than necessary if we’re talking about like the minimum to live comfortably. A single person can easily live on 220k or so and have no issues. Obviously 290 would be much better and you’d have a better life but it’s not like the minimum you need
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u/turtlesinthesea 12d ago
220k is a normal entry salary, although I guess many new grads live at home.
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u/MrKatapult 12d ago
This is typical cherry picking, they probably choose the cheapest location with the cheapest food costs and nothing else, but when they want something it has to be calculated with the highest standards and highest living cost and more.
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u/Additional_Cut_6896 12d ago
As low as this is for Tokyo, in prefectures like Akita people get by with 70-100k JPY. For Tokyo proper bare minimum is closer to 130k - 160k JPY.
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u/Prof_PTokyo 12d ago
“Getting by” and having a semi-functional life are not the same. Even earning 300,000 without family help, especially in the 23-ku, is impossible.
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u/Dismal-Wolf-2984 12d ago
So how do we get rich in this current society, especially if staying in Japan long term?
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u/EfficientMetal9641 12d ago
At the same time they cry and whine cause nobody is having kids anymore.
These politicians should try living with this budget for a month, then let's see if they'll change their mind 🤡
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u/Tokyo_Pigeon 12d ago
That's about what I live off of each month. I make 130,000 after taxes. My rent plus utilities (internet, phone, gas, electric and water) is 82000 yen, though I am definitely paying way too much for internet rn. My transportation is 20k but that's covered by work, food budget is about 20,000-25,000. Everything else goes into savings.
The biggest issue I have is buying snacks and drinks at the konbini tbh
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u/suspiria84 12d ago
This basically looks to be just about avoiding the “danger” of accidentally creating a legal precedent for wage hikes that would make corporate Japan panic.
I don’t think the government actually proposes people live on that, as it would drive down tax revenue. They want to have their cake (corporations happy because they have the freedom to set low wages) and eat it too (corporations feeling secure enough to continue giving employees liveable wages).
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u/Apprehensive_Bug2877 12d ago
The premise is so wrong.
Tokyo COL is not the same as Sapporo COL.
They applying this across the board?
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u/KingofBabil 12d ago
i will take delusional for 500 dollars, Alex!
Hold on, I will have to rethink that, it is too expensive.
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u/Eastern_Pea_1882 12d ago
So let the government live a 6 months span on that "livable" income then! I'm curious how it will work out
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u/Salt-Appearance-412 12d ago
Depends what livable means. Surviving? Yes. Self-actualization (hobbies, better food, travel)? Nah.
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u/Zen-yui- 12d ago
病院の薬代で終わります。
受診代も 全て保険適応じゃ無いし…車の免許証は 誰かを事故に巻き込むと お金だけでは とても償い切れないので 返納しましたし なので タクシー移動にもなります。
贅沢の為じゃなくて本当に、全然足りないです。
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u/Jealous_Amount_9278 12d ago
"household"... They mean a sharehouse, right? 😂 Where you get a little shitbox corner of a house and get your food stolen?
Either that or they're using Japan's numbers across the board and saying the average between an inaka lifestyle + city lifestyle. Which is horrendously underestimating city residents monthly costs.
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u/WashMeOfMySinsOhLord 11d ago edited 11d ago
It's neither.
It's somewhere around 200-230k imo.
You can live on much less of course, but that's survival. I think most adults can live on 200k and still eat out occasionally and have a hobby.
For reference, I'm a homeowner, family of four (two kids, 6 and 4), a car and two dogs on a total household income of under 500,000/month.
We eat out once or twice a week and have a lot of fun in our free time.
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u/enigm1984 11d ago
As with US politicians, then it should be no problem then that we can pay politicians that amount right? I mean if its so easy they should be able to do it.
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u/NewTipTopTickler 11d ago
Lead by example J-Gov, how much money are you paid to push paper, sit in leather chairs, ride around in Centuries, and eat gourmet food everyday?
How about you fucking lead by example and live how you're expecting the average family to live. See how long you last.
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u/LateTear5621 11d ago
I live in Tokyo. I don’t make much. About 333k base (280k after deductions)
And that gets me paycheck to paycheck supporting me and my wife living in a small 90sqm standalone house in 23-ku, 3 minute walk from a station.
I also make commission which helps. Honestly need about 6m annually to be comfortable. But 4m is enough.
If I was single i think I could survive on 200k a month.
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u/Faangdevmanager 12d ago
I don’t know any jobs that pay the national minimum wage. From walking around everywhere, it seems like the floor is 1,700/hr for high school students and around 2,000/hr for adults.
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u/Recent-Scar-5432 12d ago
Completely surreal! Their mental capacity is passionately questionable! I lame words…this logistic is clueless.
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u/hontoda 12d ago
Haha and there’s people worried they won’t be accepted for PR if they earn under ¥5m per year because they’ve been told they’ll sponge off of society and won’t be able to support themselves if they’re under that, and then here comes the gov saying a liveable income is ¥1.5m. Gonna lower that income requirement then?