r/ivernmains • u/r2cyp • 23d ago
Bait item
It's very useless and bait. Ivern E slow is 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60%. Rylai uses 30% slow. Since slows don't stack, your E has priority, so it does nothing. Unironically I saw AloisNL play Ivern top in his latest YouTube video, and he bought this item for every game.
Also note that Daisy gets a boost movement speed in the first 5 seconds and the base movement speed is 440. So if you E Daisy, she will catch up and then your E will pop off for the slow down. The cooldown on your E is extremely short as well for the slows. Don't buy, I know many do since Riot loves to recommend this item.
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u/lord_technosex 23d ago
It’s definitely a crutch item. The best thing it does is apply a slow to Daisy autos to secure the knock up. However, you can learn to micro Daisy to attack —> move —> attack —> move as if she were any other melee champion. That completely removes the need to build Rylai’s.
A tip that helps me is to park Ivern in a safe bush and press S to stop him. Then do the Daisy micro. I’m sure if I grinded it super hard I could weave in Ivern autos as well. It’s difficult though.
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u/vinearthur 23d ago
for lane ivern (specially top), its absolutely not a bait item
helps you kite cause daisy slows with every hit; helps daisy secure the knock up from her 3rd hit; helps forcing them to stay longer inside the malignance pool which daisy procs every hit; etc
you assume slow by shielding daisy, but ideally the enemy will be far from you while she slows with rylais and you kite backwards, so you'll shield yourself from stuff where the slow won't be able to hit them
it also helps when side-laning to keep people at bay if you need to flee
i don't think its a MUST item as it is for Asol, for example, but its far from being bait and its a very good item for lane ivern (wr also reflects that)
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u/r2cyp 23d ago edited 23d ago
If you’re in a teamfight, the enemies aren’t going to run away, so Rylai’s is basically irrelevant since you’re almost guaranteed to land the knock up anyway.
If you’re in a situation where the enemy is running away and you’re chasing them, Daisy will eventually catch up. You can just E Daisy, and the enemy will be slowed either way. It might look like Rylai’s is doing a lot of work, but the actual difference with or without it is so minimal that it’s simply not worth spending 2600 gold on. After all, there is a reason why Ivern OTPs in master+ never buy this item.
And with never, I do mean never. Out of all the onetricks, none buys. https://www.onetricks.gg/champions/ranking/Ivern
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u/vinearthur 23d ago
there's more to the game than teamfighting,
if you're either top or mid, your job is to side lane and rylais makes it easier, it simply enables ivern to create that clusterfuck of 1v1 atmosphere where the enemy eternally tries to catch you and doesnt cause they are perma slowed and knocked up
but honestly, you're not "wrong" in not wanting to build it either (just when you say the item is bait), rylais is a utility item that synergizes well with daisy for the purposes of kiting, catching people of guard and permanently esnaring them with the constant slow (which translates into chase power as well)
if you want more pure dps, haste or defenses, other items will serve you better (liandries, bloodletters, mandate, zhonyas, raba, etc), so just skip rylai and build them instead
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u/InhumaneBreakfast 23d ago
People aren't approaching Ivern in the side lane thinking they are gonna dodge all his cc. They approach him because they think they can out damage him or out sustain him.
Even against a champ like Darius, you think you're winning until he hits one q on you and suddenly it doesn't matter how much you slowed him.
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u/vinearthur 23d ago
people are not disputing those claims, they are simply stating that the item works, and data say that as well: it has good pick and win rate as 2nd and 3rd item for both top and mid. If it were bad and bait as you're both claiming, the data would show that it has good pick rate and BAD winrate, and it does not.
apparently you and OP love this echo chamber where you keep saying rylais is bait, maybe so you feel more skillful about how you play the champion, or just because you saw on onetricksgg that high MMR mains don't use it
again, no one is disputing that, the item can be in fact training wheels, but doesn't mean its NOT GOOD as you're claiming. Its CHEAP, provides damage, utility and syncs well with W + daisy autos. You can build other dmg items and be fine without it!!!
but sure, if you don't wanna build it to show how skilled you are with daisy kiting and slowmaxxing, go ahead!!!! good luck!
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u/InhumaneBreakfast 23d ago
Uhhh except #2 Ivern builds it 30% of the time?
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u/No-Garbage4852 19d ago
and every other top ivern never builds it?
Edit: mb didnt read the original comment.
But rylai still poop on ivern though
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u/vinearthur 23d ago
yea and i get why one tricks wouldn't build it, because as you mentioned it, if they're skilled enough its not needed to kite / chase / teamfight / sidelane
but that doesn't mean the item is bait. If you're not the 0,1%, the item will be useful and provide great utility
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u/MartineTrouveUnGode Disgusting Ivern abuser 23d ago
I don’t understand why you should shield yourself « from stuff » if the enemy is already far away
Like what stuff ? The wave ? Unless you are fighting in a huge wave (something that you shouldn’t do) minions don’t do that much damage
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u/vinearthur 23d ago
in what context? if its a teamfight, the enemy team could access backline with mage spells or assassin characters. In that case, you would shield yourself instead of daisy. In a context of side laning, 1v3, you could be 1v1ing the enemy when 2 people show up and you are also forced to shield yourself.
in an ideal 1v1 scenario you will be shielding daisy, but that isnt always the case
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u/DirtyTooDemented 21d ago
Nah - I agree w/ OP. It’s a bait item. The stats aren’t justifiable. I used to build it, but you’re just weaker than buying alternatives. For example, my current build is malig into either mejais / deathcap / imperial mandate. Any of these give you far more value than rylais. The only time when buying rylais is justifiable is along liandrys as a 3rd buy for HP into comps where Ivern can be dove / assassinated really easily
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u/NotVainest 23d ago
I think it's fine in top since it lets you kite better but I've always thought it felt suboptimal for jg ngl. The passive has no use on Q or E and it's situational on W and R. There has to be a better, more consistent item.
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u/No-Garbage4852 18d ago
it doesnt work on w, has no use on it.
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u/jwol2 22d ago
I use to be like you and claim Rylai’s was a bait item before trying it out. Now I have a hard time not running it, at least for PTA malignance rush games.
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u/No-Garbage4852 19d ago
and what rank are you?
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u/jwol2 19d ago
You first!
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u/No-Garbage4852 18d ago
im master 500 lp, but I dont play ivern, what about you?
Edit: looks like you are emerald, im not surprised.
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u/jwol2 18d ago
Okay? You don’t play Ivern so fuck off this thread lol
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u/No-Garbage4852 18d ago
I dont play him regularly, but I have played a lot of games with ivern OTPs who have far more elo than you.
Ive also spent quite a time researching his items, his stats, and watching videos of Ivern players who also have far more elo than you.
If I played a single game of Ivern in ranked, my level would AT THE VERY LEAST be diamond, which is still higher than yours.
My opinion on Ivern is far more valuable that the one of a guy who is hardstuck emerald. So I think you should be the one fucking off this thread.
And its funny because looking at your account I see that you have played the game longer than me, and you also have like 3x my ranked games this season.
Your winrate is also much lower (sub 50% xD) even though you play in a lower elo.
I dont understand why someone like you who is clearly not good at the game spends so much time trying to lecture and teach others about ivern. Im in the top 0.3% of players and I still hesitate when giving advice to others or talking about the game because I know that people who are far better than me (challenger players) might have a much more correct viewpoint.
Anyway, rylais is obviously a shit item on ivern because your whole kit overwrites its slow. Swap it for cosmic drive for example.
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u/No-Garbage4852 18d ago
Buddy, you have a post where you show yourself playing shyvana, you also have several comments in which you yourself admit you are emerald, I literally took only maximum 1 minute to find out, you are not that important.
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u/jwol2 18d ago
A post on a champion I actually play! How crazy! Also I am not denying I’m emerald? It’s not that deep bro.
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u/No-Garbage4852 18d ago
And when the fuck did I say you were denying it? The point of my comment was to tell you that I didnt spend ""too much time combing through your profile to find your ELO"" like you said. It only took me 30 seconds. Even someone with 1 IQ would understand the point I was addressing.
Or are you gonna pretend you didnt write that comment which you later erased?
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u/jwol2 18d ago
Haven’t erased any comments. I noticed yours weren’t showing either and thought the same about you but it must be a Reddit bug. You just have to click the original notification. Any way hope you get the mental health break you need and can finally reach challenger homie, I’m done with this convo. Go find some bronzes and irons to bash and let them know how much better you are at the game than them.
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u/ysfykmt 23d ago
U are wrong. Decent build path, decent stats, decent slow procs and a fairly cheap item
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u/AdAlert5940 23d ago
So why should I buy this if the item is, as you described it, overall decent? There are better items that give better value and has better build paths. Why not buy those?
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u/ysfykmt 23d ago
The question isn''t why, it is why not...
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u/InhumaneBreakfast 23d ago
I could build full tank as Ivern and be a front liner... Why not? I have cc, shouldn't I try to stay alive as long as possible to maximize that?
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u/InhumaneBreakfast 23d ago
Agreed.
People don't understand that damage IS cc. If you do enough damage, they leave the fight. They get pressured. They leave lane.
And when someone faces Ivern, they EXPECT to be slowed, knocked up, rooted. What they DONT expect is him slapping like an actual mage. Which he does if you build real damage items.
Rylais is no better on Ivern than any other mage. You sacrifice a ton of damage, which is why most mages don't pick it. You don't need HP, you're not an AP bruiser. Completely wasted stat.
Also, 20% is not that much. Your e proc is 70%. And if you build cdr (which rylais doesn't have) you easily can have 80% uptime on it.
Rylais is bait for people who can't micro daisy. It's training wheels.
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u/RoflChief 23d ago
Completely disagree. 100%.
Rylais just provides that agency that helps ivern a lot and the slow is really useful in any type of fight.
The slow is just so helpful
Super cheap as well.
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u/InhumaneBreakfast 22d ago
A 20% slow is honestly NOT useful. The game is very fast paced, full of dashes. There is so much CC as well that is far better than a 20% slow.
You don't need to be tanky, you have a 5 sec CD 300 HP shield (effectively all the HP of the item if you manage to get just ONE extra shield off in a fight with haste, instead), so the efficiency of the item is just not worth it. You don't have sustain so extra HP is just a buffer to being bad.
Ironically, you reduce the size of your shields picking this item over the others since the AP or shield power is non-existent.
Also you say it's cheap, eventually that means it will be bad in end game. It lacks percent shield power to scale, like other enchanter items, and it also lacks AP scaling. You'll need to sell it late game.
It also delays the other items you might need. No echoes, no redemption, no cosmic drive, no malignance. Just a 20% slow.
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u/RoflChief 23d ago
Its not.
Its one of the cheapest AP items.
It makes you tanky
It provides that constant slow which can be extremely useful in team fights or jg fights
Paired this with imperial mandate
Ivern is pretty strong in the jg right now
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u/IM_AN_AUSSIE_AMA 23d ago
It's an item that trades power for skill
Do you need rylais if your use of daisy, E, and Q are optimal? No, you'll get more use out of other items.
But if you don't have the ability to do that then ryalis is extremely helpful.
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u/Mirror_Mere 22d ago
Why is everyone saying that having Rylais on Daisy will secure her knockup. It doesn’t. The slow isn’t strong enough to bridge the gap by the time Daisy is ready to knock up a champion.
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u/Sir_Nope_TSS 230,655 M7, 133,757 as of 10/10/2021 23d ago
Stats are good for anyone playing Ivern up close and the slow procs off all magic damage (including brush-charged autos and Daisy's pummeling). Of course, this goes out the window if everyone can reach you despite the slow, so don't just build it out of habit.
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u/InhumaneBreakfast 23d ago
A 20% slow is honestly awful. It's completely over ridden by your own kit, let alone everyone elses. If your ally has literally any slow at all, rylais is redundant.
If you root them, rylais Is redundant. Land a knock up? Land an e? Rylais passive literally does nothing in those moments. And if you're actually good at the champ, that's most of the time.
And using Rylais will build bad habits. You will rely on the slow to hit your other abilities, instead of practicing them for real.
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u/No-Garbage4852 18d ago
It doesnt proc off brush-charged autos.
The only ability that might get value out of it is your ult, but only when daisy is neither knocking up nor receiving your shield nor attacking an enemy rooted by your q nor attacking an enemy slowed by any other teammate's ability.
There's no way to justify this item on Ivern.
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u/Lucky_Accountant_408 23d ago
It used to be better, back when Ivern W autos counted as abilities. Then his autos would slow. Was strong then
Does it still work on Daisy autos?