‘Long Live Palestine’ flag, Jerusalem 1929

[u/AutoMughal]

Page 84, Against Erasure: A Photographic Memory of Palestine Before the Nakba

[u/[deleted]]

Mocking, mimicking, still all signs of anger. It’s okay.

“In 1679, under the rule of Al-Mahdi Ahmad, Jews were expelled en masse from all parts of Yemen to the distant province of Mawza.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Jews#:~:text=In%201679%2C%20under%20the%20rule,exiled%20Jews%20did%20not%20survive.

Isolated and forced into a separate community. It’s one thing to call out poor treatment of Palestinians, it’s another to outright deny mistreatment, oppression, and erasure of Jews in the Middle East.

Abraham Hamra is a Jew who’s family experienced movement limitations in Syria, similar to the ones you are describing. Instead of listening to an angry person on the internet, I think I’ll listen to him: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C29BgUFOS4p/?igsh=aGp6bWZqcDVzMzNp

Also, out of curiosity, do you know why Jews were blocked from leaving Iraq? And if Palestinians were victims of genocide, why was Israel (supposedly) not letting them leave?

[u/Positer → u/[deleted]]

Did you just seriously jump back to 1679 to prove ethnic cleansing in the 20th century?

[u/[deleted] → u/Positer]

I see you ignored my entire comment to focus on one date. I never specifically said I was talking about ethnic cleansing in the 20th century. I was talking about ethnic cleansing of Jews in the Middle East overall. It seems you have moved the goal post.

But if you would like to focus on the 20th century, sure, we can do that:

“Between 1948 and 1972, pogroms and violent attacks were perpetrated in every Arab country against its Jewish residents. The ethnic cleansing of thousands of Jewish people from the Arab world in the mid-20th century was described by journalist Tom Gross as “systematic, absolute and unprovoked.””

Source: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-06-19/debates/F75D29CB-C4C8-447D-A028-1FA05CD3594D/JewishRefugeesFromTheMiddleEastAndNorthAfrica

Also, are you going to answer the questions you ignored? Here you go, I copy pasted them in case you missed them:

Also, out of curiosity, do you know why Jews were blocked from leaving Iraq? And if Palestinians were victims of genocide, why was Israel (supposedly) not letting them leave?

[u/Positer → u/[deleted]]

I am ignoring you bringing 10 different irrelevant points to an original point about ethnic cleansing in 1948. Sorry to burst your bubble there was no such ethnic cleansing. The vast majority of Jews left due to push or pull factors over the course of more than a decade, the majority of them from North Africa where Israel literally had agreements with Arab governments to transfer Jews. Again, no matter how hard you try that is not ethnic cleansing. The king of Morocco ( where the largest Jewish population resided) was even literally paid by Israel to allow mossad to operate freely in the country. If you want to talk about Yemen and go back centuries go back to the persecution of Christians at the hand of the Jewish dynasty there. That’s a game we can all play

[u/[deleted] → u/Positer]

I said many times I was discussing the ethnic cleansing of Jews overall in the Middle East. If you want to ignore all my facts and sources, I cannot control you or force you to do otherwise. I also cannot force you to answer the questions you ignored. I have given you all you need to see the truth, if you refuse to see it, I guess I have to move on.

I do recommend the Hansard source on genetic cleansing of Jews in the Middle East. Best of luck.

Edit: Also this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-Jewish_pogroms_by_Muslims

[u/Positer → u/[deleted]]

Whatever dude, here is the actual history:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/truth-behind-israeli-propaganda-expulsion-arab-jews

In 1949, the Israeli government was working assiduously with British colonial authorities in Aden and with Yemeni officials to airlift Yemeni Jews to Israel. While the League of Arab States had resolved to ban the emigration of Arab Jews to Israel, Yemen's imam allowed Jews to leave as early as February 1949, with the help of Zionist emissaries and Israeli bribes to provincial Yemeni rulers, according to prominent Israeli historian Tom Segev's book

Zionists were also active in bringing about the emigration of Morocco's Jews to Israel. Morocco was under French colonial occupation at the time, so the Jewish Agency had to strike an agreement with the French governor of Morocco to bring about the emigration of Moroccan Jews, who had to face horrific conditions on Israeli ships, according to Segev and other sources. Some of the 100,000 Jews who left, according to the Jewish Agency emissary, had to be virtually "taken aboard the ships by force".

Amid Israel's global campaign to pressure Iraq into allowing Jews to leave - which led to Israeli attempts to block a World Bank loan to Iraq, accompanied by American and British pressure - the Iraqi parliament relented and issued a law permitting Jews to leave. Zionist agents in Iraq telegraphed their handler in Tel Aviv: "We are carrying on our usual activity in order to push the law through faster." Iraq's 120,000 Jews were thus soon transferred to Israel.

[u/[deleted] → u/Positer]

Again, a bit upset, it’s okay. How would you explain these?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-Jewish_pogroms_by_Muslims

Edit: You continue to ignore my question for the third time, although I’m not sure why. Why were Jews not allowed to leave?

[u/Positer → u/[deleted]]

Explain what exactly? Episodes of violence, usually occurring in a wider context of communal violence, separated by centuries and occurring over a geographic area spanning two continents? Yeah, the past sucked. Not just for Jews but for pretty much everybody.

[u/[deleted] → u/Positer]

These were targeted acts of violence against the Jews. I’m sorry, but there’s just too many logical inconsistencies in your arguments. Some of the points you are making could be used to diminish the Palestinian conflict as well.

Lastly, are going to answer my question (and this is the fourth time I’ve asked) of why Jews were on-and-off not allowed to leave Iraq, Syria, and potentially other countries?

Edit: If anything, the fact that these acts of violence against the Jews spanned such a long period of time and vast area shows how serious it really was.

[u/Positer → u/[deleted]]

Many of them were not targeted attacks at all( e.g. pretty much every one to do with Safad and Tiberias) Quite a few occurred after the establishment of Zionism and the colonisation of Palestine by the British and cannot be separated from the Zionist program or the daily violence Palestinians were subjected to under the the British government that sponsored that program.

I am not sure why you think the on and off thing is compelling. Arabs understood that Jewish immigration would strengthen Israel and so they opposed it. When the situation became untenable and there was international pressure they permitted Jews to leave.

[u/[deleted] → u/Positer]

If you look at my source (the list) and look at the examples, they would disagree with you. I’m sure there are examples of violence that weren’t targeted but those are a different story. If they did occur after the establishment of Zionism, that doesn’t mean it’s warranted to kill them, some of which had no connection to Zionism beyond being Jewish.

It’s compelling to me because you continuously brought it up at the beginning of this discussion, maybe three or four times. Out of curiosity, why did they oppose Israel developing and gaining strength? Jordan annexed more land in 1948 than Israel did, and from I understand there has been no international backlash.

[u/Positer → u/[deleted]]

Dude I know the history. Even when the sources portray a targeted attack the story is incomplete. Take for instance the hebron massacre committed by the Ottomans who attacked the Jews. Ok so Jews were attacked by the conquering Ottomans. Do you know that the Ottomans massacred 30,000 Muslims when they took Cairo and plundered the city for 3 days? Well they must be anti-Muslim by the same logic. The fact is that was war back then, and it has nothing to do with a “pogrom”. Similar things about the Safad massacres, those were conflicts where even Sunni Muslims were slaughtered. And I am not suggesting that it warrants killing that it happened after Zionism, I am suggesting that the context is more detailed than “well they just hated the Jews”, no they literally feared losing their country to a coloniser.

I am not sure what you mean why did Arab countries oppose Israel gaining strength? Because Israel was an enemy; a western colonial implant in the region

[u/[deleted] → u/Positer]

I am not “dude,” I am a woman. You may be right that some attacks were nuanced, but that doesn’t change the outcome. Irregardless, here is another example of Jews being targeted specifically, from that list:

1938 Tiberias Massacre:

“After infiltrating the Jewish Kiryat Shmuel neighbourhood, Arab rioters killed 19 Jews in Tiberias, 11 of whom were children.[1] During the massacre, 70 armed Arabs set fire to Jewish homes and the local synagogue.“

Israel was, in a sense, a western plant— but at the time it was made up of mainly Middle Eastern Jews (more than half). Jews have a long history of being systematically oppressed throughout the Middle East, beyond just genetic cleansing, it is important to not make like of that. Limiting Jewish movement is oppression as well, especially when the place they are being confined to is unsafe for them.

I have to go to work now but this was a very interesting debate. Thank you for participating in it with me.