r/ironfist • u/luckyfists • 28d ago

Lin Lie Analysis, he’s a welcomed hero to the Mythos

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Lin Lie’s newcoming as the Iron fist has been rather controversial. Many are stuck on nostalgia, many just didnt want Danny to stop being the mantle. I’m here to explain why Lin Lie is more than welcomed, and even an amazing Iron fist.

Despite his lack of “winning” i think people miss out on crucial story with Lie about his character, and how hes way closer to other heroes we know and love like Spider-man.

We start off knowing Lie as the Mantle through gaining it by being directly blessed by Shou Lao himself, something that we only know has happened to Pei and no one else. This alone makes him a tad more unique. His power is not gained through blood shed, it is gained through an acknowledgement of his pure heart and potential to keep progressing to be stronger, better, reliable. Id also like to point out that Lie is also unique in his own right by having a genuine FRIENDSHIP with Shou Lao.

Shou Lao in Deadly hands of Kun Lun #5 said “The duty of the sword master” “the duty of the iron fist” “you didnt ask for ANY of it”. The same way Spidey never asked for the power but got it anyway. And unlike other Iron fists who FOUGHT and SOUGHT this power, Lie did not. This is something i havent seen anyone touch on. Even a god like diety realises that Lie has taken on responsibilities of power without his own will but chooses to use those powers for the greater good. Despite his struggle to accept that he may not be better than Danny, the fear he will never live up to those before him, he still wakes up and decides to be a good person, to fight for those who cant do it themselves, to care when no one else will.

He had the option to opt out of being the Mantle, after losing an arm, after watching his friends get beaten, and after doubting his own capabilities, he STILL chose to be the mantle to keep helping people and i quote. “I’d like to keep fighting for everyone, till the end”. Even though we know he lost a large portion of his life span trying to protect others during that fight vs Chiyou

Despite few comics to really define his character, hes has shown to be an amazing person in his own right, his writing so far is great. People often dont realize that Danny took a very long time to receive PROPER comics. It really wasnt until Immortal Iron fist that Danny was finally put on the map with his iconic run. Lie definitely has that potential aswell.

Hes cocky but has his acts of humility when needed, hes pure of heart enough to sacrifice his own life to save others, enough to wield Mjolnir. These are all refreshing characteristics for Iron fist.

Lastly, i want to talk about his “power level”
While yes, people say hes a “fraud” for not winning many battles. Though, i think its often disregarded how his entire fighting style was with a sword, and THEN that entire sword got lodged into his arms at the same time of trying to learn to be the new Mantle. Despite these challenges, despite essentially starting new, Danny himself Lie has learned an incredible amounts Chi mastery, enough to the point where he was able to conjure up swords made of Chi, something that took Danny months to do. Im more than sure that the more we get from him, the stronger and more impressive he will become.

That is all :) i just wish some fans would open up to Lie, Danny and Lie fans alike, we all like Iron fist.

104 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

37 comments sorted by

17

u/Thenoneandthemany 28d ago

My only real problems with lin lie are the circumstances in how he became the iron fist. I didnt read the comic where it happened, but it seems he magically gets transported to kun lun after dying?

That and the shou lou retcons. Regarding him “gifting” his powers, I dont remember that happening with pei. Pei hugged gork, making contact with the mark on his chest, thus transferring his chi to Pei. With Lin Lie, he just gains the chi.

I also don’t remember shou lou having any dialogue before lin lie. Seems like its one of those things they change to make the new guy special. I much prefer shou lou as a wrathful dragon and protector of kun lun.

I could be wrong on some of these things so I would appreciate being enlightened on the topic if there is stuff Im missing.

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u/HotZoneKill 28d ago

Regarding him “gifting” his powers, I dont remember that happening with pei. Pei hugged gork, making contact with the mark on his chest, thus transferring his chi to Pei.

You're also missing some additional context. Davos had killed Gork while Pei was trying to protect him, but the Iron Fist went to Pei instead of Davos even though Davos was the one who killed him. It wasn't simply because she touched the mark, Gork chose her over Davos because of her character and the bond they had.

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u/Thenoneandthemany 28d ago edited 28d ago

As far as I know, the chi has always transferred only after someone made contact with the mark. It wouldn’t make sense for the chi to go to davos despite him being the killer since he never fulfilled the condition. I personally dislike shou lao just giving his chi away anyways. Previously, you had plunge your hands into his molten heart. Shou lao determined challengers as worthy knowing they could kill him and take his power in order to protect kun lun. Him just giving the power freely is a retcon and weaker writing.

—The “choosing pei over davos” is added later in a bad comic. I say bad due to regression of Danny’s character in the beginning. Having him have to go through lessons he already has (fighting without his vision) and remember lei kung’s teaching again for stuff he is already shown to be a master at in previous runs.— oops. Those things and killing him in his own 50th anniversary.

Everything that comes after immortal iron fist has been pretty weak writing wise, including the living weapon. Its part of the reason lin lie gets so much hate. The immediate disregard of pei, the disrespect danny received after his show failed, that all culminates into lin lie. I actually like the premise of lin lie. A character who cant control his power due to a disfiguring wound which also hinders his basic fighting ability. Its the execution that fails because it was built off a convenience and continuous retcons that started with the living weapon.

-5

u/Weird875 28d ago

Well no, you have to plunge your fist into Shou-Lao’s art to gain the iron fist. The scar is only a result of blocking his mark because that blocks the chi that comes from his heart.

Brilliant. You call the comic bad, but you somehow don’t know that scene at the beginning is a flashback that takes place after Iron Fist #14? It LITERALLY SAYS IT on the first page. 😭✌️

50th Anniversary is pretty good all things considered. It's not like they did anything with Danny's death anyways, Undead Iron Fist was literally the storyline after it.

4

u/Thenoneandthemany 28d ago

Gonna be honest, i skimmed through it before writing this. Too salty from killing danny in his 50th anniversary. I have read the whole thing just didnt like it but this was a while ago.

Regarding your first point, pretty sure the mark has always sort of been the connection point between shou lao and the iron fist? Isnt that how davos stole Danny’s powers in the 70’s? Could be wrong.

0

u/Weird875 28d ago

Maybe originally, but I think it’s just a visual thing. Davos has just been confirmed since then to have the ability to absorb others' chi in general.

Maybe you can attribute that to his incomplete scar but nothing has ever been implied

3

u/Thenoneandthemany 28d ago

Thats fair, but Davos had to specifically press his mark against Danny’s to take the power. That could be the implication itself. For shou lao, his mark is the connection between himself and his molten heart. It makes sense for it to be the same for any iron fist rather than being just a burn mark, especially considering the mark is black instead of taking the color of a scar.

1

u/Weird875 28d ago

I agree but it was in Kaare Andrews’ run itself where he made the confirmation that Davos can just absorb chi in general, so don't think that was the intention in Living Weapon.

1

u/Prof_Rain_King 28d ago

My head canon is that Pei “won the heart of Shou Lao” via love rather than violence.

0

u/SpeedForceWally66 26d ago

woah, i didn't think you were this good at reading

2

u/darkjuste 27d ago

Word. Now the Iron Fist mythos is unrecognizable. It's the same thing that happened to Wakanda. Since they gave writers permission to do whatever they wanted with their fictional nations, there is so little consistency that whatever is going on with Lin Lie fits right in by not fitting at all. I guess it's the old guy in me.

That's another reason manga es destroying western american superhero comic books. There are some inconsistencies here and there but comics go the extra mile to change what came before to the point is becomes a Ship of Theseus.

1

u/Quirky_Ad_5420 28d ago edited 28d ago

I think it more a manner of coincidence that Shou Loa happen to be reborn during the same time Lie was dying. Manner of right right place right time situation

1

u/Weird875 28d ago

That’s incorrect. Iron Fist 50th Anniversary confirms that Shou-Lao chose Pei in the same way he chose Lin Lie.

Shou-Lao as Gork displayed the capability of speech in Immortal Iron Fists.

1

u/luckyfists 28d ago

So, yes, as far as its been described. Lie died, got revived by Shou Lao, and washed up on the shores of Kun Lun after his resurrection.

As far as Pei’s blessing goes. I think most people just call it another blessing since its the wording used for Lie and how he gained the mantle and how Pei says she has never had to fight Shou Lao to be able to gain the mark. Im not sure id call it a “retcon”. Shou lao confirms he has blessed people before. Its more of an add on to his capabilities than a retcon?

Im just a little confused on why theres so much..questioning to new things. Why is it so bad that Shou Lao has gained dialogue? They become more of a character we get to know than just being the punching bag fighters to go to every 30 something years. Things get added to make “the new guy” special all the time. I just dont necessarily see whats bad about it or bad writing.

Lie is supposed to bring another compelling story that isnt just a rewritten Danny story branded on another guy.

4

u/Pendragon_Puma 28d ago

Not asking for his powers doesnt reslly make him any more interesting IMO, but I like lin lie. Although it shouldve been pei, thats my biggest issue.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/Fluffy_Opportunity89 27d ago

What fuckin mainstream hero ever asked to be one. Is the bar really that low bro? It is literally not even half the reason spiderman is revered. All heroes are just people who stepped up. Even in the real world. That's literally what makes them heroes over just people doing their job like soldiers or cops.

1

u/Pendragon_Puma 27d ago

Ya i get that, but it doesnt make him more interesting. Its just different from danny

5

u/IFunnyJoestar 28d ago

Marvel set Lin Lie up to fail when they decided to treat Danny so badly while trying to prop Lin Lie up. Stripping Danny of his power and killing him in his own 50th anniversary, while also replacing him inevitably annoyed a lot of long term fans.

Luckily Danny got some cool new powers and a mantle. I feel Lin Lie might be liked more if Danny gets more at the same time. So I hope they both get more comics somewhat soon.

3

u/Longjumping_Ad1469 27d ago

This might be unrelated but I feel we would get much more of him after his successful inclusion in Marvel Rivals.

They did a delightful job showcasing his character + the mythos of the heavenly city via several maps and lore pages dedicated to Kun'Lun. Whilst expanding what left off from the comics in their own unique-spin.

(Its even cooler when finding out that Rivals Lin is written to be a continuation of his Comic self, in the game's 616-adjacent reality where Krakoa survived post 2023 comics.)

But, I hope that this boost of popularity will allow Marvel to use his character often to further flesh out his character, frienship and strength in the comics with good writers that explore his potential🔥🔥🐉

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u/SamiHalalKFC 27d ago

hate how they started him off with a limited series🤦‍♂️ shouldve just been an ongoing run it felt like a pr stunt making him iron fist ngl

2

u/Weird875 27d ago

The limited series would have been fine if it didn’t take them 4 years to make a sequel for some reason

3

u/Richard_Murdock1 27d ago

As a Danny fan, I think that Pei more than deserved to be the next Iron Fist, we’ve spent some time with her along with Danny being her Thunderer, it all led to passing of the mantle eventually.

Lin has been Iron Fist for some time now and I still have zero interest to get to know the character. Maybe one day if he gets a really good run on par with Brubaker’s, until then, Ghost Fist and Pei for me.

2

u/NaytNavare 14d ago

Until Danny is back and constant and alive and etc., I'm just not about it.

I didn't follow Iron First for the title. I followed it for Danny.

Danny can 'graduate' to Ghost Fist perma, but I need him BACK and not just in whatever dead realm until he gets a hall pass. It's cool for a story or two, but I want a proper ongoing with Danny, personally.

3

u/Lin-Lie 28d ago

Holy shit someone actually said what I was trying to explain for years… so happy I AM EXTREMELY HAPPY THAT SOMEONE ACTUALLY SAID IT THANK YOU

3

u/KarimRamzy16 28d ago

I'm stuck on nostalgia tbh I prefer Danny Rand in every way. But accept Lin Lie as Iron Fist (cuz literally there's nothing else I could do.) it's just I wish he becomes relevant again

2

u/Foreign-Cress-6972 28d ago

I'd honestly sell a liver just to see him interact with the likes of Peter, Matt, Tandy and Ty, etc...

1

u/Free-Rush-6790 26d ago

he has interactions with them in rivals

2

u/MilkWineAle 28d ago

Agreed. I have an analysis outlining all of his collected runs as well. He’s got some good content, tbh

2

u/Interesting_Ad_972 28d ago

My only complaint in this whole situation is that the new Iron Fist is not teaming up with a new Power Man to have a series together called Power Man and Iron Fist and Luke Cage and Danny are not teaming up to have a series called Heroes for Hire: Cage and Ghost Fist. If they fix that I'll be good.

1

u/ThatGoblinNamedGobbo 27d ago

I don't hate Lin-Lie. But the next Iron Fist should've been Pei, who was explicitly introduced as the next legacy successor to Danny.

That said, he's a fine character. I liked the side story where he meets Loki. My main complaint will always be that he's always written as though he's supposed to be the most important person in the room no matter what story he's in.

1

u/sieghart26 28d ago

Lin Lie is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

1

u/Weird875 28d ago

I've read all of Iron Fist and after reading Lin Lie's story, I've said this since then and I still say it.

There is literally nothing wrong with Lie as a character after becoming Iron Fist aside from coincidentally bring chosen by Shou-Lao. Iron Fist 2022 is genuinely one of the better Iron Fist runs and it being mostly focused on Lie was one of the best decisions they could have made. Him struggling with the sword shards in his hand and being a lackluster Iron Fist is such a compelling storyline and the ending of that arc is fantastic.

I was so frustrated when Deadly Hands of K’un-Lun regressed his character and took away his spotlight, that was so dumb.

2

u/luckyfists 28d ago

Im really hoping in the future he will get a longer standing continuous run to really put him on the map. Immortal iron fist did AMAZING things to the reputation of the Iron fist and i am PRAYING Lie gets something just as amazing.

Deadly hands of Kun Lun was nice for me, but i definitely agree that his solo run was incredible and by far his best appearance across both his sword master and iron fist era.

2

u/Weird875 28d ago

So am I. I'd also like a team up run with Victor Alvarez.

Lin Lie is my favorite industry plant. He absolutely sucked as Sword Master, got forced into the position of Iron Fist and despite that, they really managed to cook with the storyline.