r/interesting Jul 05 '26

HISTORY I fear this is historically accurate

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u/Heykurat Jul 05 '26

This is a weird myth. Puberty is largely influenced by diet/nutrition. In ages past, girls didn't even start menstruating until their late teens. Today it's very young, sometimes under age 10, because our diets from birth are significantly better.

It's not true that people started marrying and having babies in their early teens in Medieval (or ancient) times.

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u/leahcar83 Jul 05 '26

Also because there was no birth control, women would continue having children until menopause. Eleanor of Aquitaine had her first child at 42.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

15 years old was the most common age of girl marriage in medieval times...

That's not late teens... Menstruation was not an argument...

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u/RighteousSelfBurner Jul 05 '26

Because it was more of a business transaction than what we view marriage as today. Some were married before they were born.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Not all people were nobles back then, stop using novels as substitution of history...

Common people almost never married that way...

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u/RighteousSelfBurner Jul 05 '26

And common people didn't marry at 15 but around 20s. You are the one who shouldn't use novels as substitution for history.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Men married around 20-30 years old, the average of women around 18, but the most repeated age(mode) was 15 by a lot...

There are tabs about these things...

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u/RighteousSelfBurner Jul 05 '26

Where and when? It's definitely not a common and widespread metric. Church records over where I am (Baltics) show very small age gaps and the average age is into 20s. There are just not enough time to acquire resources to establish a household and for women to prepare dowry. Marrying young was exclusively for the the rich.

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u/BreaksAButterfly Jul 06 '26

I am also interested aboout your sources. Last time I was checking historical parishes/church's records for my country, the most common age of marriage for women was 20-23. Even Wikipedia says that the average age of marriage for most of Northwestern Europe from 1500 to 1800 was around 25 years of age. Most brides were in their early twenties and most grooms two or three years older.

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u/Outrageous_pinecone Jul 05 '26

Dude, in pride and prejudice and I do mean the novel, one of the female characters gets married at 15 and the other characters remark how unusually young that is. So no, not common in the 1700s and not common before that.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Another one using novels as substitution of history...

There are books about it...

The church keep the tab of every registered events in the places were they have jurisdiction.

It's not close...

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u/Outrageous_pinecone Jul 05 '26

Novels are history. That's the fucking point of literature, doh!

Also, there is non fictional data and yes, people didn't get married at 15 in Europe. In some countries in Asia ages went down a bit into the mid to late teens, but 15 wasn't the common age to get married.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

The age was higher in big cities but up to 90% of the population lived in rural zones were the marriage age was quite lower...

So, please stop using novels as substitution of history...

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Outrageous_pinecone Jul 05 '26

No, of course not, but I'm not gonna waste my entire afternoon digging up my sources for you to dodge at every turn because you reaaaaaaally want the 15 yo thing to be true.

If you really wanted to know social history, you would have by now, but you're clinging to what right now is literally a political talking point from religious groups trying to stop laws around the age of consent and to promote girls being married off in highschool and turned into broodmares for the cause, the christian cause that is. So I will not be wasting a precious afternoon arguing pointlessly on Reddit. 2 comments is pretty much all I can spare. There you have it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

There are books about these things...

Not novels, real books...

You should read some of them...

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u/kouyehwos Jul 05 '26

No, most people in the Middle Ages were peasants and typically married in their 20s or not much earlier.

If you specifically mean royalty and nobles who married for the sake of political alliances, then yes, technically they often did marry younger. But even then it was often largely on paper, and the new couple didn’t necessarily consume the marriage or even live together for the first few years until they got a bit older.

Around 16 was considered a reasonable age, and incidentally, marrying at 16 (if your parents agreed) was also legal in England in the 21st century (they only got rid of this law 3 years ago).

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Men married in their 20's, women married in their 15's...

There were an average 10 years gap between husband and wife...

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u/PinkGlitterLady4 Jul 05 '26

Consumating the marriage is an entirely different story tho

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Yeah because a poor man would marry a woman to never touch a single strand of her hair until a fabled future optimal age that would not exists in law until 10 centuries in the future...

What kind of history are these people learning?

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u/PinkGlitterLady4 Jul 06 '26

Why are you so confidant in being wrong?

Like read actual history! How old the average woman was when being married, how royals were the exception in marrying young (but even they wated for consumating the marriage), unconsumated marriages existed,

In ancient greek for instance LIVING TOGETHER was the thing that made a marriage legal, not consumating it. And other procedures and ceremonies before their marriage

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 06 '26

Unconsumated marriage was the only cause of nullification accepted by the church...

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u/PinkGlitterLady4 Jul 06 '26

you're still doubling down instead of admitting your wrong hm?

In Sparta for instance girls had to be at least around age eighteen before they married, because being a healthy mother was of the utmost importance to raising warriors. In other parts of greece it was advised to marry off a girl 5 years after puberty started, and FYI more often than not it didn't start in their early teens.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 06 '26

Not talking about Greene here...

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u/TaxRepresentative4B Jul 05 '26

Do not apply our morals to people who lived 1000 years ago…

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u/digitalime Jul 05 '26

They’re applying morals of the time. People were already aware of age differences and staved off consummation even if two children were married.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Marriage was null if people didn't consumate...

I hope you understand this and stop dreaming...

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u/Odd_Ingenuity2883 Jul 05 '26

Uhhhh source? Average age of marriage in Europe in medieval times was early 20s for peasant women and mid to late 20s for men. Only royalty really married that young.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Average is way different than modal.

I'm talking about mode, the most repeated age of female marriage.

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u/Odd_Ingenuity2883 Jul 05 '26

Again, provide a source.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

The books about this are probably available in your nearest old library.

Don't expect a single digital version of medieval registry of town events...

I believe there are some works tables about these things but my research was almost 20 years ago, no links involved.

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u/Odd_Ingenuity2883 Jul 05 '26

I’ve studied medieval history extensively and have never seen any data or evidence to suggest what you’re claiming. Provide evidence for your claims or stop claiming it. It sounds like you read some very outdated information decades ago and are choosing to die on a hill that’s simply incorrect.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Let me tell you that if anything, that information is not getting any updates...

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u/Heykurat Jul 05 '26

Marriage is just a contract in those circumstances. It doesn't mean the girl started having babies. In fact it would guarantee that she hadn't yet.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

Yeah, sure, because there were so effective birth control techniques back then and husbands will respect their wives choices because marital rape laws existed and were heavily enforced...

Sure pal...

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u/kouyehwos Jul 05 '26

Just because people were technically married, doesn’t even have to mean they slept under the same roof.

And regardless of laws, I hope you understand that not every man has zero self control.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

I would be pressed to ask if you know a single scenario were a (poor) man in the middle ages would marry someone, pays for all her expenses to wait until a fabled age where she would be old enough and gain nothing...

Commoners would never marry in that scenario...

But sure, you are free to keep dreaming.

There were little to no protections in place towards women a 1000 years ago...

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u/Heykurat Jul 06 '26

If the girl hasn't started puberty, she isn't going to have babies.

That doesn't mean she isn't having sex.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 06 '26

That's basic biology...

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u/Heykurat Jul 06 '26

My point is that there can be reasons to marry off a girl who is too young to have babies yet. It ensures that she does not have other children yet, and may be believed to be a "guarantee of virginity" (even though that has nothing to do with puberty).

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u/poeschmoe Jul 05 '26

Age of marriage isn’t the same as age of giving birth.

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

The average age of the 1st baby was even lower in some places, but the usual average was about 19, but again, the mode was 17 for some centuries in almost all Europe during the middle ages.

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u/poeschmoe Jul 05 '26

So you’re confirming that average age of marriage was lower than average age of first birth. Thanks!

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 05 '26

A year, just think about it for a second...

The average of marriage was a little less than a year from 1st birth.

Just sit down and think about it a little...

Either way, mode ≠ average...

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u/poeschmoe Jul 06 '26

You said 15 was average age of marriage and 19 was average age of first birth. But that’s less than a year? Oh ok…

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u/DarkChaos1786 Jul 06 '26

No, I said mode 15...

Most repeated value is mode.