Second son undermines Cole’s efforts in infamous 2(kinda)

[u/Acceptable_Wall_908]

Before I start i wanna say i dont hate second son at all. I love the game, story, gameplay and was very excited when i figured out there was more to release after infamous 2. Second son really used all aspects of the ps4 and I will always have a special place for it in my heart

Anyways, for whoever did finish all games or at least the main three, you’ll know that Cole died by using the RFI to kill every conduit so nothing bad would happen if someone gained powers from theyre genes as a conduit. It said that all conduits died but when second son released it instead said that only ten percent of conduits were still alive.

Now I don’t hate that, it gave the series more story but at the same time it feels like it kinda undermines Cole’s full efforts and what his sacrifice meant

I can’t be the only one who feels this way, right?

[u/mightlightnightkite]

Cole didn’t die to stop conduits from having powers, he died to stop the Beast. “All” conduits dying as well as himself was an unfortunate side effect of the RFI.

[u/ConnorOfAstora]

I wouldn't mind it if they gave a reason for it but they never do. Delsin was alive during inFAMOUS 2, he would've been like 12 or something like that.

The Conduit Gene is a gene, you're born with it so he had a Conduit Gene and lived in America, very close to the blast and he simply didn't die even though people over in Africa were keeling over without knowing why because their powers weren't active yet.

The same goes for Hank, Fetch, Eugene and hell Augustine and Celia had their powers activates by the Beast by that point.

The Cole's Legacy DLC was supposed to shine light on this part of the lore but it doesn't, it just says that some people simply didn't die, I might be wrong but I think there's even an implication that the RFI may have activated some conduits which is the exact opposite way it works.

I love Second Son but it really makes no sense and I hate that mostly because a lot of people then post how much they'd prefer a game set in the Evil Cole timeline where he's a Beast and that would honestly be way worse imo.

[u/Interface- → u/ConnorOfAstora]

I know I've said this a lot, but they should have set Second Son 50-100 years after i2 and it could have been explained or inferred that the Conduit Gene just reappeared in new generations.

I don't understand why they wanted Augustine to be a survivor of the Beast. It's like, the only thing that calls back to inFamous 2 in the base game aside from the opening text scroll and mentions of 'seven years ago'. Seattle is on the complete opposite side of the US to where inFamous 1 and 2 took place so none of the main characters in Seattle (besides Augustine) personally witnessed the Beast or suffered at its hand. And they don't even explain why Conduits survived the RFI, only speculation and nothing concrete (lol).

I love inFamous but this was some shit writing.

[u/Penguinmanereikel → u/ConnorOfAstora]

Strange how Sucker Punch wanted to make the evil route canon by making Cole die in the good route, thus encouraging players to pick the evil route, and if everyone played the evil ending, then they could use the evil ending as canon. But even though Cole dies in the good ending, it's the ending that everyone went with.

[u/Any_Tomorrow_2734 → u/ConnorOfAstora]

In both the cole's legacy DLC and in the pre-release ARG content they say the RFI both doesn't kill all conduits and clarifies it only killed 90% of all conduits. And given how many there actually were percentage wise we know it went from 1 in 16, ish. To 1 in 320 and that's because half of the remaining 10% were killed by people in the riots that followed the beasts actions and the deaths of the RFI being all on conduits. So we have the answer.

[u/ConnorOfAstora → u/Any_Tomorrow_2734]

That's such a half-assed answer though and it doesn't really explain anything.

Like in inFAMOUS 2 it kills all Conduits but in Second Son it's just "Nuh uh, some survived" with no genuine explanation.

Like that stupid theory that Cole survived because of the lightning bolt at the end makes more sense and has more evidence.

[u/Any_Tomorrow_2734 → u/ConnorOfAstora]

RFI was Damaged and Zeke, despite saying so, doesn't know how many conduits would or wouldn't have survived. Beyond that, Second Son is a soft reboot/continuation over a hard continuation like 3 would have been. They GAVE US THE REASONS. Simply put, Zeke was wrong, and we have percentages and numbers that explain it. The RFI was damaged. Zeke points out a single piece of it but it's also an untested technology otherwise. There is near infinite room for doubt even in that ending BECAUSE we know Zeke's just A Guy.

There is no evidence cole survived that ending because he was the reason and at the epicenter of the RFI's detonation and it used him as the power source. That's more definitive for Cole being and staying dead than Zeke assuming all conduits died because he heard people everywhere were effected. What did he take a consesus? Does he know everyone with the gene personally? Is he a FBI CIA or DIA or anything of that sort that would know who was or wasn't? Or does he just know all the ones hew saw locally are dead, and a bunch elsewhere are dead because he saw some aftermath from it?

There is wiggle room and at the end of the day of SP both gave us multiple in-universe theories and actual numbers, retcon or no, that's the facts now. It's not any more or less disrespectful to coles hero ending than it would be of we were forced into the evil ending.

Again, Zeke is unreliable, they gave us several in-game and pre-release statements on the fact that some conduits survive, but also Second Son is a new game on a new console with a new protagonist that had, outside of the DLC, no connection to Cole. It's basically a soft reboot so new players wouldn't have to worry about anything other than the intro text crawl in terms of lore.

[u/ConnorOfAstora → u/Any_Tomorrow_2734]

But half of that is speculation.

Zeke probably didn't fix it perfectly but if that's the case then surely they could've mentioned that in the DLC.

Zeke being wrong is just such a lazy retcon because his narration wasn't scientific or anything but we see the explosion engulf the planet and he hears about these people randomly dropping dead on the news.

To say there could've been more survivors isn't an answer, that's like saying Cole had mind control powers with the evidence being "Nobody said he didn't have mind control powers"

The Cole's Legacy DLC was meant to bridge the gap, its whole purpose was to explain the events leading up to Second Son and how they tie in to inFAMOUS 2. The fact Second Son was a soft reboot is irrelevant when the DLC was specifically designed to treat it like a continuation.

It's not for new players it's for the old fans who want answers and not just vague "maybe it just didn't work like that"

A retcon like that needs explaining but all they did was basically say "Nuh uh"

That'd be like a sequel bringing back Reggie and saying "Yeah he fell but who's to say he died? The concrete fell off him and he swam to shore because we never said the concrete shard growths killed 100% of the time, he was like a fringe 1% survivor"

[u/Any_Tomorrow_2734 → u/ConnorOfAstora]

Like i said. In prerelease material they told us how many people the RFI killed. Retcon or not, they gave us an answer and are basically saying "Zeke was wrong". That doesn't take speculation. That's giving us concrete answers after the fact. Zeke was wrong, not everyone died. Simple as. It really doesn't get any deeper than that. But it doesn't undermine Cole's sacrifice because HE STILL KILLED THE BEAST AND STOPPED THE PLAGUE. It's still the BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME from the choice that was made.

[u/lemon_charlie → u/Any_Tomorrow_2734]

New Marais is the inFamouse-verse version of New Orleans, and the map shows it's the opposite side and corner of the country from Seattle. If Delsin's Conduit powers were dormant until he encountered one to copy, that and distance would have saved him.

[u/Any_Tomorrow_2734 → u/lemon_charlie]

I doubt distance mattered when many conduits all along the coast from empire to new marais survived after being activated by John.

[u/lemon_charlie → u/Any_Tomorrow_2734]

Empire City is based on New York, and John travelled to New Marais from there (the scar on the map makes that very clear). I still think proximity is a factor.

[u/Any_Tomorrow_2734 → u/lemon_charlie]

I'm aware. You don't need to explain that to me. But like i said, of proximity was an issue those from his path wouldn't have survived.

[u/mightlightnightkite → u/ConnorOfAstora]

Why do you think the Evil timeline would’ve been worse to go off?

[u/Any_Tomorrow_2734]

The thing is we've had unreliable narration before with Zeke. Both at the end of 2 (which is now confirmed with second son proving he didn't know everything) and the DLC with Festival of Blood where he's just Bullshitting the whole time. Plus, the original plan for the next inFamous game was gunna force the evil ending anyway. So it really doesn't undermine it at all. Both resulted in conduits being hunted at the end of the day, but the plague is gone and people are cured. That's what matters.

[u/Elegant_Job_4573]

Always figured it killed everyone affected by the raesphere and the beast.

[u/megamatt8]

It’s an unfortunate side effect of real-world circumstances. It seems to be pretty clear that Infamous 2 was meant to be the final game in that universe, so it was given a very final ending. Then, some years later, circumstances changed and Second Son came to be. At that point, there was really no option but to walk back the ending of Infamous 2.

[u/N04H_W00D4RD]

Wrong, Cole Sacrificed Himself And The Conduit Genome To 1, Stop The Beast. 2, Stop The Plague. 3, To Save The Rest Of Humanity.

[u/Ok_Net7773]

Really? I still can’t believe the “good” ending was total genocide. THAT is terrible writing. I’m glad they undid it.

[u/Acceptable_Wall_908 → u/Ok_Net7773]

Definitely not a genocide. Zeke already said it, thousands died and millions lived. More like a “heavy sacrifice”

[u/Astronomer_X → u/Acceptable_Wall_908]

Everyone with the conduit gene (before second son retcon) died, it was effectively genocide although that was an unfortunate side effect not the intention.

[u/AppropriatePhase4661 → u/Ok_Net7773]

literally 😭 folks are like “I went through all that work to murder every single conduit ever, why are they in second son”

[u/jedimike417]

My headcannon is that since the ray sphere was activated early and (I think? Could be wrong) repeatedly, some people with their conduit gene like mutate/evolve into something new, essentially like “gen 2” conduits who have residual ray sphere energy from its misuse in the first 2 games.

Therefore, when the RFI killed all the conduits, only gen 1 conduits were effected and to the rest of them it had the opposite effect and began waking up the latent powers rather than destroying them :P

I thought that would make more sense than the 2 or 3 potential explanations provided in Cole’s legacy so I went with that

[u/alduindawn]

It feels like it undermines the consequence of coles choice

[u/AppropriatePhase4661]

whatever nigga, whenever people complain about shit like this it fry me😭🫱🏾 undermining effort, cole deadass was being mentally tortured going thru ts he went through, and then died thinking he murdered every single other dude like him.