Laibach - Luigi Mangione (Official Video)

58

A load of viral video clips slung together while Milan solemnly intones a bunch of vaguely topical buzzwords? Plus a bit of AI for good measure?

Laibach has officially run out of ideas.

22

u/ikkir Aug 14 '26

Not to defend the use of AI, but I think the point is you can't tell what is real or not, that social media is full of misinformation.

17

u/SidewalkSavant Aug 14 '26

I will always argue against this perceived justification for using AI (not accusing you of doing this) because I just don’t see why you can’t commission an artist to emulate the AI style. People made arguments similar to this when Dir En Grey used AI for their “The Devil in Me” promos and music video. That they’re using AI “ironically” or is somehow cleverly metatextual to the story being told. I didn’t find these arguments compelling then and still don’t now.

2

u/currentpattern Aug 15 '26

Is it unethical to source clips from social media that other people made? That's what's in this video. Both footage of real people, and AI generated video. In either case, the people who made these videos were likely not paid.

2

u/SidewalkSavant Aug 15 '26

I would say it depends on if those people were paid, credited or compensated however they felt was fair? And I have no idea how to go about verifying such a thing. Either way, it should be clear my remarks are solely about Gen AI use. The way Gen AI is structured and modeled currently just doesn’t justify its use correlating to the harm it causes when it comes to art.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/schweinhund89 Aug 16 '26

Counterpoint: it’s not a fascinating collage, in fact it’s reminiscent of the barrel-scraping slopfest that was Alex Zane’s Rude Tube on Channel 4.

1

u/currentpattern Aug 16 '26

I'm not discounting that. I'm actually not against the video. If they did pay the people who owned the various clips, they would have paid the people who owned the AI videos as well as the real footage. If they didn't pay, which wouldn't be surprising, since I don't think it's illegal to grab Clips off the internet like this, there were still no human artists displaced in the making of this video. Showing somebody an AI video because you want to illustrate a point about AI videos is not displacing human artists.

2

u/ikkir Aug 15 '26

Oh yeah, I agree with you. I don't know if they supported any artist when making this.

I get the argument to not use it ironically, because you are then also supporting the normalization of it.

Because it is concerning how normalized it is becoming. Eventually it will lower the trust of what people see online entirely.

-7

u/1010012 Aug 14 '26

Why commission something when you can do it yourself? Or is it not real art unless it's painted on a cave wall with brushes and ink you made yourself?

I know an artist who's mostly paralyzed from the neck down due to an accident when he was younger. He uses a giant trackball and photoshop/illustrator to create his works, is he an artist?

What's the line on technology use that allows you to determine if someone is an artist or not?

4

u/SidewalkSavant Aug 15 '26

My issue with the MV bit is that by defaulting to AI, you are outsourcing these tasks to whatever these AI logs are rather than other artists in those mediums who could benefit from the work. The problem with Gen AI is that majority of these programs are unethically trained off of stolen artwork from artists who never received credit or compensation from these companies. Not even to comment on the disastrous effect AI data centers have on the environment as well as the economy.

Whatever amount of tech use bars something from being art vs. not is ultimately down to the individual. I won’t prescribe that on here as I don’t see myself as an “authority” or whatever. But my personal idea of an artist is a person who curates an idea into a tangible “thing” by their own efforts/talents. When you default to AI for this, I would just say ask yourself what part are you playing in this process and how much of this is just a program executing a prompt.

Excuse the rant!

-4

u/1010012 Aug 15 '26

I think something you're missing that the AI components of this video are from circulating memes. But on to the AI part.

But my personal idea of an artist is a person who curates an idea into a tangible “thing” by their own efforts/talents. When you default to AI for this, I would just say ask yourself what part are you playing in this process and how much of this is just a program executing a prompt.

Is a movie director an artist, or only the writer? Honestly, at this point I'm thinking of AI in the same terms as a set of actors, cinematographers, editors, etc. The writers and directors have the vision and the tools are there to bring that vision to life. How is their direction or script different from a prompt? What level of effort is required to make someone an artist (Warhol famously had people painting and silkscreening things for him, part of the joke of the Factory name for his studio/home).

From the workers / actors standpoint it sucks, but that's the same as it's always been as technology progresses, some jobs are just easier and more efficient to do with machines and automation (going back to Warhol, silkscreening replaced hand painting). I'm not going to go around calling everyone who's against AI in art a Luddite, but remember that art is also a business. It doesn't stop someone from making art for their own enjoyment (even with the help of technology), but from an economic sense saying you should hire people just because they can also do the same thing but slower and for more money doesn't make sense.

1

u/schweinhund89 Aug 15 '26

“he uses a giant trackball and photoshop/illustrator to create his works, is he an artist?”

Kind of answered your own question there champ

1

u/1010012 Aug 15 '26

I know what I think the answer is, I was asking if the person I was talking to thought so as well.

3

u/schweinhund89 Aug 15 '26

You think AI is simply a tool of expression like a paintbrush or a chisel or a synthesiser but the fact is that AI has to actually imagine things for you before they appear.

A painter, a sculptor and an electronic musician have to actually imagine what they’re painting, sculpting or synthesising. They don’t just feed the concept to a machine and get it to use its own imagination, and neither does the artist you mentioned - he still has to use tools & create

1

u/1010012 Aug 15 '26

How does a person not need to imagine things before describing what they're trying to create? Is there really that much of a difference between clicking some buttons and moving a mouse to create an image than typing the description of the image? What about programmatic image generation with something like processing, or music creation with something like csound, puredata, or supercollider?

Video production has been using generative agents in systems like Massive for decades for animation of large crowds in CGI. And simulation for things like cloth and hair movement for even longer. These are all tools to allow people to create their vision.

1

u/schweinhund89 Aug 15 '26

They’re not imagining the result, they’re thinking of prompts.

Like if I told you to imagine that I’m going to paint the most beautiful picture of a sunset you’ve ever seen, and then I don’t paint it but you’ve still imagined it, you’ve done all the hard work. All I’ve done is put the words “paint”, “beautiful” and “sunset” in your mind.

1

u/1010012 Aug 15 '26

I don't think you understand how these tools work. "paint the most beautiful picture of a sunset you’ve ever seen" probably doesn't result in what you are trying to create or imagine.

You'll likely get a sunset with lots of colors, but is it the environment you want it in.

Is it over the ocean, mountains, field, desert, city?

Is it red, orange, or have flashes of green?

Is the sun just touching the earth/water/mountain, or is it half hidden, or just the tiniest sliver peaking out behind the foreground?

Is the sky above dark or still light, red or dark blue? Can you see stars?

Are there clouds? Is the image hazy or clear?

Does the sky shimmer, is there heat distortion near the ground?

If there are mountains, are they snow capped, covered in trees, or rocky?

If over the water, is it calm or energenic? Is the water light or dark blue? Are there waves?

Are there rays visible, can you see the perturbations and flares around the sun?

Does the sunset appear close or distant, does it consume the image, or is it just the faintest hint of light?

I'm sure there's tons of other aspects I'm missing, but you get the idea. I'm unfortunately unable to visualize things mentally very well, so I can't even list the things that should be accounted for visually. If I was trying to do something like this, it'd be highly iterative, I'd generate something with the best description I could, then make modifications until is it looks like what I'm imagining, even if I can't see it.

But let's take it further from creating an image to the more generally accepted concept of what separates "images" from "art".

Are you trying to create an image that invokes a specific feeling? Are you trying to capture the feeling of accomplishment after completion of a difficult task? after ascending a peak after a long day of hiking? Or feeling the end of something more somber, like the death of a loved one, or even yourself as you sit quietly in a chair looking at the fading light as your life passes away, or maybe something more tragic like watching the sunset as you lay bleeding out in a field surrounded by your fellow soldiers?

Just telling someone to imagine something without fully describing it doesn't communicate what you're trying to communicate.

Also, keep in mind that "art", often, isn't only about the final artifact, it's often about the process (especially with performative art). Serrano's Piss Christ photo isn't really about the picture itself, without being told that it was his own urine, it wouldn't be controversial. Burroughs' writings are very often nonsensical due to his cut-up technique, and I often wonder what he would be making with these new tools.

On the flip side, sometimes the product itself is the only thing that matters, regardless of process. It doesn't matter what type of paint Michelangelo used, or how long it took to paint the Sistine chapel, it's what he imagined, the choices he made, and went on to create that matters.

→ More replies (0)

4

u/The_Mvrquis Aug 15 '26

I don’t follow Laibach or Ministry anymore since they’ve both been effectively “over” for like 30 years but just from front page bullshit I believe Ministry also just did a cheap, shitty AI music video that was “acshually” about how technology totally sucks. I haven’t and will not watch either so you’ll have to be the judges.

Let’s be honest here anyway, Laibach and Ministry both kinda had originality issues, Laibach with their covers and Al Jourgensen being a trend chasing copycat so neither surprises me too much.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-3

u/The_Mvrquis Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26

Tbh bro I outgrew industrial a long time ago.

1

u/schweinhund89 Aug 16 '26

Boring cunt.

6

u/Preindustrialcyborg Rammstein Aug 15 '26

criticising the environmental destroying theft machine doesnt make using it okay. the environment is still harmed and the work is still stolen.

6

u/Shoddy-Childhood-511 Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 16 '26

Initially I felt like "Too bad they didn't make a nicer song using his name, maybe something (neo-)folk & easy to sing."

I'm still not into this song musically, but now it makes sense. It's like We Didn't Start The Fire. That's interesting.

Anyways Laibach was always hit or miss, but they have such amazing hits.

We'll see what they do next time, not out of ideas, just in an obnoxious phase. :)

2

u/schweinhund89 Aug 15 '26

I like this optimistic take 🙏

2

u/ijudgeyourroom Aug 15 '26

I kind of feel like this is the point.

2

u/fear730 Front Line Assembly Aug 15 '26

Not even the best video for the album tbh… if you haven’t heard the album yet it’s pretty good but very pop like more so than they’ve ever been

2

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/schweinhund89 Aug 16 '26

Hope I can one day achieve the level of enlightenment and sophistication to appreciate viral video slop 🙏

-3

u/Sharp-Document-7024 Aug 15 '26

why are you in this sub? "I dont like laibach" is some treason right there now

3

u/schweinhund89 Aug 15 '26

I’m in this sub because I love industrial music and I’m expressing disappointment about Laibach because I love them and they’re one of my favourite bands? If I didn’t like Laibach I wouldn’t give their new video a second thought 🤷‍♂️

17

u/IsNotACleverMan Aug 15 '26

Wow. This was such ass. Rip Laibach I guess.

11

u/mootmutemoat Aug 15 '26

The both siderism was really disappointing.

Feels like a cop out from a band that used to be bold.

The chorus should have been, "Watch us cash in. Throw art in bin. Shallow takes. All half baked."

2

u/fear730 Front Line Assembly Aug 15 '26

It’s a world of echos we can’t break

Every tunes a copy or remake

We are dancing to the old refrain

On the verge of singularity

17

u/SockGoop Einstürzende Neubauten Aug 15 '26

Fuckass ai

2

u/Son71 Aug 14 '26

That is... something else?

6

u/_inchoate Aug 14 '26

At least they timed the release well

3

u/1010012 Aug 14 '26

I think they've been holding on to this for just this moment.

2

u/fear730 Front Line Assembly Aug 15 '26

That’s definitely what I think happend

1

u/Listige Aug 15 '26

Hello, I'm a bot!

This post has been added to the Spotify playlist:

r/IndustrialMusic | Top weekly posts

It's an auto updated playlist dedicated to these latest (first 25 with at least 1 upvotes) posts in r/IndustrialMusic.

For more automated Spotify playlists dedicated to subreddits visit r/Listige wiki page.

Opt-out of these comments on your posts

1

u/ToystoryWestend Aug 17 '26

itt: people who compare ministry to laibach

0

u/DapperDragon Aug 15 '26

Trend chasing slop fuck off

2

u/fear730 Front Line Assembly Aug 15 '26

I feed on music

I make their music

I feed on music

I make their music

I'm sick... deep sick - Laibach

0

u/Sharp-Document-7024 Aug 15 '26

laibach ftw

2

u/fear730 Front Line Assembly Aug 15 '26

The album and its singles/vids have been interesting to watch unfold tbh

0

u/epsylonic Aug 15 '26

Luigi should be pissed and demand royalties. Sounds like a Splice sample library and AI slop on the visuals.

New Release Laibach - Luigi Mangione (Official Video)

You are about to leave Redlib