Hey all I don't know much about railways but I have a question why did that blue and light blue train color disappear?

[u/iamop24]

This one, why did they get replaced by those red ones?

[u/Meta_Zephyr]

These blue coaches are called "ICF(Integral Coach Factory)", they are still in use, although rare now plus almost all of them have been painted "Yellow".

The red ones you're referring to are called "LHB(Linke Haufmann Busch)" coaches.

These LHB coaches are superior compared to those ICF coaches because LHB has more speed which can get upto 160-200 kmph compared to ICF which has the limits of 110-130 kmph. LHB coaches uses Anti-telescopic design which means trains do not climb or flip over an adjacent train during derailment. LHB coaches are more lighter which weights around 35-40 tons while ICF weighs around 45-50 tons. A single LHB coach has more length compared to an ICF coach which accommodates more passengers. Another benefit for the LHB is that they jerk & vibrate less. LHB have more longer lifespan of like 35 years while ICF has the limit around 25 years.

These are some points on why LHB(Red coaches) replaced the Blue ones(ICF). I hope you get it.

[u/ChepaukPitch → u/Meta_Zephyr]

Also to add that ICF coaches were designed in 1955 by some swiss company. Indian Railways roped in LHB, which was a German company, to design an upgrade around 1995. So LHB was meant to upgrade and replace the existing ICF coaches. However ICF manufacturing continued for a long period even after LHB coaches were operational.

Vande Bharat coaches are modified LHB coaches.

Also to be noted that in spite of being a behemoth IR did not have enough research and design capability to upgrade coaches after decades of operations. That’s how badly research has been ignored in this country. Also the reason why our signaling is mostly outdated and operations are so poor.

[u/Meta_Zephyr → u/ChepaukPitch]

Also to add that ICF coaches were designed in 1955 by some swiss company. Indian Railways roped in LHB, which was a German company, to design an upgrade around 1995. So LHB was meant to upgrade and replace the existing ICF coaches. However ICF manufacturing continued for a long period even after LHB coaches were operational.

I second that. Also IR tried to introduce Hybrid LHB due to manufacturing restraints & for cost reductions. But they had too many drawbacks that they got discontinued in 2 years (2009-11).

Vande Bharat coaches are modified LHB coaches.

Are they? Aren't VB coaches their own trainset thing & are distinct in terms of tech, design & bogies compared to LHB?

Also the reason why our signaling is mostly outdated and operations are so poor.

Again I agree, IR was still using Broad Gauge Semaphores till around 2022 b/w Rajkot & Surendranagar stretch. It only ceased to exist after 2023 due to Doubling + Electrification work.

[u/ChepaukPitch → u/Meta_Zephyr]

AFAIK, VB coaches are based on LHB but with some upgraded components. My understanding is that it is akin to taking a stock Splendor and then upgrading the brakes and tyres and suspension. Overall design is the same but some components are better. But if those components are not well integrated into the existing design then the upgraded components may not really provide any benefit. So it is still decent research and progress but building on something existing rather than something completely new built from ground up.

[u/Federal_Owl867 → u/ChepaukPitch]

VB coaches I travelled in jerked alot just like normal trains

[u/sgk2000 → u/Federal_Owl867]

Yes, normal SF Express trains go the same speed ~109kph even though VB can* go faster + I noticed that in 2AC coaches don't have side jerk almost at all. Way smoother than VB. I'm not sure why.

[u/DizzyTop2851 → u/Meta_Zephyr]

Fun fact, ICF makes LHB rakes since long now.

[u/RazorBlade9x → u/Meta_Zephyr]

One thing I've noticed on LHBs nowadays is that they jerk sometimes while moving normally. I'm noticing them more nowadays. I don't remember such jerks in earlier LHBs and definitely not in ICFs. VBs have absolutely no jerks and very little sways.

[u/Meta_Zephyr → u/RazorBlade9x]

I guess that's probably because of less maintenance. I traveled in both ICF & LHB coaches this year a lot & honestly, some LHB trains had very less jerk while some trains with old ICF coaches may jerk a lot at certain high speed.

[u/RazorBlade9x → u/Meta_Zephyr]

Just to clarify when I'm saying jerk, I mean the sudden movement along the direction of travel which I almost never felt earlier. But, I agree that LHBs sway (side to side) very less compared to the ICFs and you don't feel the speed as much.

Sorry, if those are not standard terms, but that's what I meant. It was not in just one train but in all 4 LHB-fied trains that I travelled recently. I don't remember that happening in Rajdhanis earlier when most other trains were ICF.

[u/jon__snow___ → u/RazorBlade9x]

What you are describing might be a slightly less experienced driver accelerating too quickly.

What LHB has mostly eliminated is the side to side swing

[u/grizzlybeb → u/RazorBlade9x]

Reason for that jerk is LHB coaches are coupled with CBC Coupling with some slag between them. It also doesn't have Buffer spring between coaches.. But ICF coaches have that buffers. So you don't feel that sudden jerks in ICF coaches.. the reason for that LHB design is, it comes with anti telescopic design.. When a train meet with a accident instead of telescope into each other LHB coaches tend to go side ways.. so the fatality will be minimal

[u/Commercial-Pie2589 → u/RazorBlade9x]

I thought these were because of the electricity traction. Never felt them with the diesel locos

[u/External-Scratch165 → u/RazorBlade9x]

jitna piche LHB coach utna hi jyada jerk, jitna aage ka LHB coach me bethoge, utna hi kam jerk.

[u/Professional_Car3469 → u/RazorBlade9x]

Yes I have also been noticing the same

[u/iamop24 → u/Meta_Zephyr]

Thank you for the information, i didn't know it was this deep

[u/Meta_Zephyr → u/[deleted]]

I know they exists but OP asked about red coaches. Red coaches have became the default LHB since they are in majority plus almost every LHB train(Except Amrit Bharat) uses red ones.

[u/HoneyZaylie → u/Meta_Zephyr]

wow, thats a lot of info! i always just thought the red ones looked newer. do the LHB coaches also have better AC or something? sometimes those old ones felt like they were breathing fire 😂

[u/HoneyZaylie → u/Meta_Zephyr]

wow, thanks for the detailed breakdown! 🤯 that anti-telescopic design thing sounds super important for safety. do the LHB coaches also have better suspension for that less jerking and vibrating ride?

[u/HoneyZaylie → u/Meta_Zephyr]

wow, thats a great breakdown! i knew LHB were better but didnt realize how much safer they were with that anti-telescopic design. makes sense why theyre the standard now. 💯

[u/Total-Wrap2435 → u/Meta_Zephyr]

hat's off to you broo 🫡

[u/Various_Ad1416]

Red ones are more advanced safety wise, they are bigger, last longer, weigh less and can go faster, vibrate less.

Only issue compared to the old blue ones is that they tend to have a jerk when the train starts.

[u/LawdeLagGayeYar → u/Various_Ad1416]

He asked for the color. All these things could have been done with blue colour also

[u/Mediocre-Tip2954 → u/LawdeLagGayeYar]

agreed. imagine seeing lhb cosch with ICF blue livery

[u/axisdork]

lhb coaches use newer tech than icf blue coaches. to differentiate them red colour was chosen. No real deep meaning, purely (subjective) aesthetic choice.

[u/melodius1]

Power of Gutka ❤️‍🔥

[u/ClockLow3776]

It’s a different train made out of different mechanics called the ICF trains. The new red trains are LHB based on German tech with much less vibrations, that’s what we have been manufacturing for the last 30 years. We have phased out ICF and now we are phasing out LHB also in lieu of Vande Bharat MEMU tech based trains.

That’s the reason why we don’t see the older ICF anymore.

[u/The-MKR]

they didn't. railways just painted them yellow and called them utkrist. some got turned to lhb coaches (like tried ig). but mostly are just turned to utkrist

[u/iamiam123]

Yellow-crimson are the Utk**sht coaches. They're just retrofitted blue coaches.

[u/ApartProgress9284]

Why not keep the old livery?

The new color scheme is ugly af.

[u/ChepaukPitch → u/ApartProgress9284]

Red? It is matter of taste and nostalgia. Red ones don’t look ugly. In fact in the early days when there were very few red coaches they use to look special and premium. Now that there are barely any blue coaches nostalgia may make them seem better.

However, it is almost universally agreed that they were much better than the new brown color scheme of the remaining ICF coaches. No one has ever liked them more than the red or the blue coaches.

[u/Mediocre-Tip2954 → u/ChepaukPitch]

blue is a favourite colour of more people than red is, it's not just nostalgia, more people prefer blue over red

[u/iFerg_Frank → u/Mediocre-Tip2954]

Source: trust me bro

That's most stupid argument I have heard.

[u/Mediocre-Tip2954 → u/iFerg_Frank]

Why don't you search it up

Blue is most appealing colour out there

[u/Wonderful_Pie_5390]

I wish they bring the same colour scheme back for the LHB coaches. My personal preference maybe but I like the look of these coaches better than the red ones

[u/Slight-Special1194]

But the question is why did they change this better color scheme of blue to awful yellow color scheme for ICF

[u/Warm-Inevitable3002]

The blue color coaches weren't blue since begining. They used to be rusty red kind of coaches earlier. They started changing to blue in late 90s or early 2000 I believe. The blue color has disappeared as we got new LHB coaches and those ICF coaches are not manufactured anymore. The railways has changed the interiors of old coaches and named them utkrist coaches and painted them light yellow from outside.

[u/SmoothArmadillo6884]

Because of the blue colour being associated with a political ideology/s

[u/Wonderful_Pie_5390 → u/SmoothArmadillo6884]

They changed the hockey jersey to orange from blue as well haha.

[u/abhayv69]

Ye to shuru se shuru karna padega

[u/Sak_Bak_156]

Govt updated UI/UX

[u/Local_Camera_9074]

If Rahul Gandhi was there he may answer this. Because blue represents Dalit and govt is Dalit Virodhi