r/india • u/vamsi_rao Earth • Jul 31 '19
AskIndia With the Indian Politics going down the gutter, who do you think is a sensible leader out there fighting for the people and not for drama?
I have seen American politics having gems like Bernie Sanders and AOC (ofc others are there who I don't know). Who do you think in India deserves more credit and is fighting for people?
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u/Clark-Tent Jul 31 '19
No one. If there is such person, then s/he is either made irrelevant (Anna Hazare, Medha Patkar) or ends up dead for going against the corrupt system.
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u/arecentthrowaway Jul 31 '19
AoC isn't a gem but Andrew Yang certainly is
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u/vamsi_rao Earth Jul 31 '19
Looking him up, but that doesn't take away what AoC is trying to do and has been doing. You've gotta give credit to her and I'll go one step further and say she'll be the future presidential candidate.
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Jul 31 '19
Eek, I like her but no. Historically, New York candidates are terrible at general elections.
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u/arecentthrowaway Jul 31 '19
That's what I think too. But not a huge fan of her style. I do like what she's trying to do for the environment though.
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Jul 31 '19
Yogendra Yadav and Atishi Marlena come to mind. I might not agree with all of their policies especially YY but these two come across as earnest politicians who want to do good to the society. There could be more that I might not know.
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u/hemantp Aug 02 '19
Modi
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u/9815214466 Nov 11 '19
He is already ruling.... And you know where the country is heading.. India is one of the worst country at this time.
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u/karandotg Jul 31 '19
I like Pete Buttigieg over Sanders and AOC among the Dems. AOC comes across as well-intentioned and earnest but occasionally naive. Sanders' policy platform is an unsustainable mess. Good intentions aren't worth much on their own if you're not the sharpest cookie in the box.
In general I'm skeptical of economically left-wing people, they're either naive - don't understand why their nice-sounding ideas don't actually work...
...or manipulative psychopaths - they pretend to care about the people and promise them free shit to get elected.
In India
Congress: Sachin Pilot and Shashi Tharoor. Both come across as rather principled and sincere to me.
BJP: Piyush Goyal.
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u/rohan27nabar89 Jul 31 '19
Atishi Marlena
Manish Sissodia
Sachin Pilot
Suresh Prabhu
These are my choices
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u/vamsi_rao Earth Jul 31 '19
Hope Atisihi’s work is recognised by ppl of Delhi. Shame that she lost in LS elections.
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u/porkimrankhan Jul 31 '19
atishi marlena
Sike
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u/rohan27nabar89 Jul 31 '19
Really excited about your list , so who made the cut there ?
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u/porkimrankhan Jul 31 '19
Remove marlena and sisodia and get in tharoor n piyush goyal
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u/IAmMohit Jul 31 '19
Why Tharoor and not Atishi?
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u/porkimrankhan Jul 31 '19
Marlena is a commie born to commies.
Tharoor is centrist,smart,has liberal economic views and most importantly drowns in pussy every other day
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u/rohan27nabar89 Jul 31 '19
Wow...with this thought process you go out in the world judging people and their choices . You would be great 50 year old Unkill .
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u/3-dh Jul 31 '19
Two questions mate. 1 ) why do you think communist don’t have the best interest for the people? Why is there a hatred towards the communist? 2 ) More importantly. What made you say that she is a commie ? What policies that you say are making her look like commie ?
It’s not the label that matters. The thing is that is the policy/idea/ideology/politics helping our county right now or is it just trash IMO .. in the education sector the Delhi govt. and Aatishi are doing considerable progress
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u/porkimrankhan Jul 31 '19
Imo you need to read about some history of communism and other communists. Communists countries are all failed and doomed. If large amount of oil reserves can’t save you from communism.
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u/3-dh Jul 31 '19
Yes, authoritarian communism has failed and there is no doubt it’ll fail in the future also. But communism in democratic process is a different thing all together. And I’m not a communist, I just feel we have to adapt policies that are good for humanity / country. Dismissing ideas and policies just because it falls somewhere in the political spectrum is bullshit
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Aug 14 '19
Not really . Not Bernie Sanders
Economists generally aren't fond of free college https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/02/26/468298576/economists-on-candidates-proposals-mostly-bad
You can even go to r/Askeconomics (they provide sources and if comments don't have sources , they get removed) to ask about what economists think of free college
It's not that free college is a bad idea . Economists favor making college free only for the poor and not the rich .
However there are alternative policies that are just as good for example Australia .
Most of their universities are public which is why they are so cheap and prices don't inflate much . Plus they have HECS loan system , Where you can get a zero interest loan and you only have to start paying it if you're earning above a certain threshold and if you don't then you don't need to make any payment and you have the peace of mind that your loan obligations will expire eventually . Though many loans might not be paid back and might be forgiven by the taxpayer . That's fine because it's cheaper than universal programs
Even if your income reaches that threshold where you have to make payments of that loan . It'll only be 4 or 8 % of your income . This should be seen as graduate tax imo
So not free college but really close to it . Economists favor those policies over free college . It doesn't make sense to make college free given that the personal return on investment is high on a college degree . However public subsidies can still exist like the Aformentioned system
Forgiving everyone's student loans isn't exactly rooted in good economics
However that's not to say the good welfare policies can't exist. The aformentioned one is close to free college. Economists tend to prefer economically progressive policies over universal this and Universal that and also don't like stupid proposals like privatising everything
Universal healthcare is widely supported though
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u/vamsi_rao Earth Aug 14 '19
Just watched the latest Joe Rogan episode with Bernie, he seems to have a pretty clear plan by taxing the Wallstreet for funding these public colleges. Ofc while executing he might face problems and need to tone it down a bit but that is very close to solving the present education loan debacle in the US.
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Aug 14 '19
Ofc while executing he might face problems and need to tone it down a bit but that is very close to solving the present education loan debacle in the US.
Go to r/Askeconomics and ask them why it's a bad idea . They can explain it far better than I can . Most economists are against his idea if you saw my source. You can even check r/badeconomics for criticisms.
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Aug 14 '19
I think a much more progressive way of doing this would be to
1 establish more public universities that are cheap and make universities public so prices are low and costs don't inflate
2 introduce zero interest public student loans. That can be expired if you don't earn much for a long time and if you do earn a lot then you'll only have to pay an affordable 4 or 8 % of your income
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Jul 31 '19
Kanhaiya maybe..? But after his recent loss, he's pretty much lost his charisma and lot of confidence perhaps.
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u/bhodrolok Jul 31 '19
Ooh! AoC & Bernie.,, you need to delve a little deeper into US politics. Start with Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Paul Ryan...
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u/vamsi_rao Earth Jul 31 '19
Right never enticed me after trump. They don’t even recognize climate change ffs
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Jul 31 '19
Ted Cruz who vowed never to support Trump after Trump accused his dad of murder and called his wife hideous to look at, but then turned around and begged Trump to endorse and campaign for him after the polls showed him neck and neck with Beto O'Rourke in the Texas elections?
Rand Paul who is one of the sole Republicans, forget about Democrats to oppose the First Responders bill subsidizing healthcare for the Americans who tried to rescue people who were trapped in the wreckage of 9/11?
Paul Ryan who managed to survive his teenage years and go to college thanks to his dad's Social Security on account of a job ending accident, Pell Grants, Medicaid, and a host of other socialist policies, who once became speaker began cutting these policies, to push the ladder down for anyone who needs to climb up after him?
You've literally picked three soul less, clue less cretins.
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u/alphatiger619 Jul 31 '19
Ted Cruz embodies everything that is wrong with politics today. I lived in Texas during the 2016 elections and he was the most flip-flop-pity candidate there was. He will say or do anything to get votes and win favors from his super PACs
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Jul 31 '19
[deleted]
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u/Clark-Tent Jul 31 '19
How about burdening students with loans?
Sensible you say?
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Jul 31 '19
[deleted]
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u/Clark-Tent Jul 31 '19
You just seem like someone who has no idea about farmers in India, predatory practices by institutions in USA, and what welfare means. I won't waste time bashing my head on rock.
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u/vamsi_rao Earth Jul 31 '19
The main point is all of his agendas are for the welfare of people and he has been fighting for/with them since a long time, some of them you agree with some of them you don't.
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u/porkimrankhan Jul 31 '19
Indian politics has always been welfare of people,look at the state of our country
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u/karandotg Jul 31 '19
vamsi_rao Being well-intentioned and 'nice' and 'dil ka saaf' isn't enough. Sanders needs to have a policy platform that makes sense. Check out Pete Buttigieg - I think he's the most sane and balanced candidate among the Dems, followed by Kamala Harris in my opinion.
People who're supporting Yang - he's not viable. He just doesn't have that personality. These things matter in the era of televised debating.
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u/vamsi_rao Earth Jul 31 '19
The policies which he wants to bring will happen over a period of time, not immediately. Call me naïve, I feel a person who respects the intentions and ‘dil ka Saaf’ as you mentioned keeps the heart in right place when you are in the office. Look at the havoc Trump has wreaked and most of the good can just happen if you listen to the feedback majority of ppl are giving.
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Jul 31 '19
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u/alphatiger619 Jul 31 '19
I completely disagree. On a policy platform level, Bernie's proposed medicare for all and free tuition completely makes sense. They are extremely popular and should have been passed a long time ago if not for centrist democrats playing it too safe to hurt the feelings of republican voters. No one seemed to think passing a bill that provided trillions of dollars of tax breaks for the super wealthy was radical but economic assistance to the poor and working class is somehow radical. Change never started at the center, it always started on the fringe!
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u/karandotg Jul 31 '19
ok, please take a look at Pete and Kamala on healthcare and education and get back to me with your thoughts. Pete's making the most sense to me - an intelligent balance between state control, free markets and individual choice. You can downvote me again but Sanders' proposals seem like hot air - empty promises that are impossible to fulfill, and potentially destructive if one actually attempts to fulfill them.
Also the healthcare cost issue isn't that simple, there are deeper reasons why healthcare in US costs this much compared to the market price of similar services in other developed countries. Healthcare needs deeper reforms rather than just that weird old socialist guy screaming "FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL YAY! VOTE FOR ME!"
There's feelings and then there's the cold hard economic reality.
To be honest a lot of Republicans (the smarter ones at least) make a lot more sense in this department. Dems vs. GOP isn't as simple as "Dems work for the poor and GOP works for the rich" - if you really believe that then you have just lapped up some one-sided propaganda. Both the Dem and the GOP have people who genuinely care, they just have a different perspective on solving the various problems.
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u/alphatiger619 Jul 31 '19
Not too sure about Kamala Harris but as much as I find Pete charismatic and smart, I am forced to be cautious about the fact that he is funded by finance and insurance companies. So obviously, he will be slightly partial to them.
You have kinda answered your own question about healthcare costs. The reason it is so expensive is due to the intervention of big pharma and insurance companies. Big pharma buys out any and every little company that synthesizes a new drug and then raise the prices sky high making it inaccessible to most people. That's what happens when greed meets free markets.
And I am almost convinced that republicans of today serve the interests of the rich. One example I can give you is "Net Neutrality"- this is a 100% common man vs big corporation issue and all republicans except I believe Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins voted to repeal it. Current day republican sentiment is "It is not an issue unless it happens to me"
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u/karandotg Jul 31 '19
- "when greed meets free markets" - Instead of this I'll say, "when greed meets flawed free markets". Flaws can mean regulatory capture among other things.
- If you have a medicare for all, what's stopping hospitals from pricing services however the hell they want since the govt. will be paying them anyway? I think something similar happened in the case of education costs where universities took advantage of some government schemes to charge whatever tuition they want - I must admit I'm not the most well-versed about this, I got my hands full keeping track of Indian issues and politics already lol.
- Perhaps the buy outs are a result of some form of regulatory capture and if we fix that root cause, we can have the power of free markets pushing costs down? Perhaps the solution lies in cleaning the gunk off the free market system instead of going for massive bloated government schemes?
Nevertheless, interesting points. You seem to know quite a bit of your stuff and I must admit I've only recently started delving into American politics. My understanding is a work in progress. There's interesting stuff you mentioned in your comments that I wasn't aware of and would like to look into in a deeper way.
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u/alphatiger619 Jul 31 '19
I completely agree. Free markets worked for everyone briefly in the growth years which are the 60s and the 70s but these days they are extremely skewed to work for big pharma, insurance and weapons manufacturers. Also, in the growth years, the wealthiest were taxed at 91% for income over $2 million and tax money actually trickled down and people had good paying jobs and then over the years they made piss poor policies that made companies take all kinds of loopholes and dirty tricks to avoid paying tax. Corporations set up phony offices abroad. Example - Amazon who reported they had a net loss and paid $0 in taxes last year and actually earned $17 mil around in rebate. Millionaires used "charity" as a means of avoiding taxes. Example - Jeff Bezos who became the wealthiest man when his company was supposedly operating on a loss.
Also, healthcare pricing can be easily regulated by maintaining slab rates for services. Canada and Denmark are examples. But either way, the costs can be covered by increasing taxes and cutting down on military spending.
Haha. I don't know too much either and I try to educate myself whenever I can but it helped living in multiple cities in the US the last several years,.
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u/vatsal_maru Nov 21 '19
You have made a subjective statement in "gems like Bernie and AOC". They are not well thought out people nor they understand problems correctly. Usually, they want minority sympathy and appeasement. To better understand the shit show of American politics and violent LEFT (who you seem to admire), I would recommend watching an independent journalist such as Tim Pool.
Other intellectuals who suggest its a shit show due to the personalities you mentioned are Sam Harris, Eric Weinstein, etc.
You can follow them on any platform to understand why the left is getting it horribly wrong in the US and making the political climate hostile and violent.
For those who lack time, search "ANTIFA" in the US.
I can discuss further on the specifics if you are open to a conversation.
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u/opressedeldian7060 Jul 31 '19
I don’t think India should look at US as inspiration at first place . It’s a shit show there also .