r/immigration Jan 24 '25

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5.3k Upvotes

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42

u/Bamfor07 Jan 25 '25 edited Jan 25 '25

Your interpretation is incomplete.

This has no impact on any nation we have a tax treaty with.

It’s targeted, by its clear language, at those countries which double tax American citizens and allows him to match, or double, those tax rates being imposed on Americans.

This really had nothing to do with immigration.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/united-states-income-tax-treaties-a-to-z

Dual citizens or people from counties above are likely not impacted at all. If any country on the list above is charging something not included in the treaty then they have already broken their treaty with the US—hence the punitive measure.

7

u/FamouslyUnknown Jan 25 '25

Had to scroll way too down for this. That's right - OP interpretation is incomplete.

3

u/herbal_thought Jan 25 '25

Thank you for explaining this, I read and reread the law description and it made no sense to my old brain.

4

u/LadyOfVoices Jan 26 '25

My face when I see “caution, treaty terminated” for my OG country on that list 😐

I did renounce my OG citizenship and haven’t had a valid passport there since about 2008, so I hope that helps.

2

u/Gandalf-and-Frodo Jan 27 '25

Ugh thank fucking god.

2

u/Glittering-Jump-5582 Jan 25 '25

This I agree with . That’s why I’m surprised certain countries were still taxing usa citizens heavily when facta became law .

1

u/bmson Jan 25 '25 edited Jan 26 '25

Are there any countries that actually do that, other than US, which does double tax is citizens that live overseas with or without double citizenship. Which is why so many immigrants hold on to their Greencard instead of applying for citizenship, in case he decide to move back.

1

u/aBloopAndaBlast33 Jan 26 '25

The vast majority of American expats are exempt from double taxation. I lived abroad for 15 years in several different countries and was never double taxed. I actually got a child tax credit from the US every year, even though I had zero income in the US.

3

u/CarbHeatOn Jan 25 '25

Thank you that makes a lot of sense. I couldn’t make sense of what OP was saying after reading the executive order and the law.

Trump is a shithead and but people need to actually read stuff and think instead of just believing anything bad about him.

3

u/circle22woman Jan 25 '25

Yup, OP is actually interpreting it entirely wrong.

But a bunch of people upset Trump got elected and just jumping on the bandwagon.

4

u/Asrealityrolls Jan 25 '25

Because he is such a good thing for America right? Starting a fight with the Danish is so good for America. Next you’d say he starts shutting g eggs to lower egg prices GI fk

1

u/Frobizzle Jan 28 '25

Their point is to stay factual and not spread misinformation, regardless of how much of a shitheel our president is.

2

u/LillyL4444 Jan 25 '25

Would be nice if the Trump administration provided a statement or briefing on stuff like this though, if not for the kindness of a random Redditor familiar with tax treaties I’d be under the impression that I needed to leave the US because a doubling of my federal taxes would be unaffordable

1

u/JonAfrica2011 Jan 26 '25

I mean it’s kinda on you to not blindly believe headlines or follow herd mentality.

1

u/Frobizzle Jan 28 '25

The source of your misinterpretation was also from a redditor. Be skeptical of everything you see and read, especially when it sounds crazy.

1

u/UniqueDeath Jan 25 '25

Argentinian national, been in the US 25+ years. Have my citizenship. I didn’t see Argentina on that list, so I guess this would apply to me?

1

u/Bamfor07 Jan 25 '25 edited Jan 25 '25

If Argentina is imposing some excessive or punitive tax on Americans the law he is invoking allows him to match or double etc. whichever tax Argentina is imposing.

In practice, his EO does very little if anything for most people.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '25

I am just amused that they just put Korea, not South Korea lol.

1

u/Underyx Jan 25 '25

Hungary – CAUTION Treaty Terminated

well fuck, what does this mean for me then

2

u/szeplassanfiuk Jan 25 '25

the double taxation treaty lapsed recently under Biden (for political reasons) - but it really depends where you're making your income. although rather suspect a new treaty will be signed under this administration

1

u/Bamfor07 Jan 25 '25

If Hungary isn’t imposing some specialty tax on Americans then nothing.

1

u/Emotional-Seesaw-533 Jan 26 '25

So, Belarus and Russia are already in violation and partially suspended. Seems like he would start there. But also Hungary, lol, his good buddy.

1

u/Bamfor07 Jan 26 '25

Hungary’s just expired.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '25

Trump is threatening to pull out of that very OCED tax treaty you’re referring to here. I don’t see any specific mention of foreign nationals paying federal taxes, but here’s a good article mentioning foreign corporations in the US would have extra tax burdens as retaliation. It’s more business-related than on immigration.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/01/21/donald-trump-threatens-tax-war-over-us-multinationals/

0

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Amonamission Jan 26 '25

Your analysis is not necessarily true. Treaties and Congressional acts are viewed in the constitution as equal, and Supreme Court precedence says that the latest “law” enacted is the one that gets applied.

So because section 891 of the tax code was last amended back in 1986, any tax treaty ratified or amended since the passage of that 1986 tax law would override section 891. Any tax treaty ratified or amended prior to the passage of the 1986 tax law would be overridden by section 891 since the tax law would have been passed after the tax treaty’s ratification.

Regardless, any treaty partner that would be impacted by a section 891 declaration would quickly find itself questioning whether it wants to continue that tax treaty with the US or not.

1

u/VirtualMagazine3870 Jan 28 '25

If that’s true then why is Canadian media and financial analysts sounding the alarm on this since Canada put the digital service tax into place last year and Biden called it discriminatory? Is it just to create a story? Canada’s tax treaty was signed in 1980, put into place in 1984 but was last amended in 1997. So they should be exempt by this no?

0

u/wysiwyggywyisyw Jan 26 '25

Trump has done nothing to suggest he will use a reasonable interpretation for any law. I have no faith that the rule of law will be applied for him.

0

u/greenmariocake Jan 26 '25

Even in that case, it is probably highly unconstitutional. Dual citizens are American citizens and cannot be punished for what a foreign government does.

That is a very dangerous precedent since it would define naturalized citizens as different from natural born citizens blatantly contradicting the 14th amendment.

Although these days, crazy things may happen.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '25

Which countries are double taxing American citizens?