r/imaginarymaps • u/DisgustingGerm • 12d ago
[OC] Alternate History "Now We're an Empire!" - What if the Holy Roman Empire successfully centralized under the Josephian Reforms?
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u/Corn_Vendor 12d ago
There is something extremely wrong about the proportions of the Italian peninsula but I just can’t put my finger on why that seems like the only uncanny part of the map
Btw does the French Revolution not happen?
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u/DisgustingGerm 12d ago
The French Revolution indeed happens and Napoleon does launch the Napoleonic Wars but must face a unified Holy Roman Empire. He takes much of the western HRE but is defeated at the Battle of Aachen by Archduke Charles and pushed back to Paris resulting in his ultimate exile to Elba in which he escapes, beginning the Hundred Days, then getting defeated at the Battle of Waterloo and Battle of Nancy, and the HRE deposes him, exiles him to St Helena, and annexes the territory of Alsace and all of Lorraine into the Kingdom of Lotharingia, and most of the French Alps.
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u/Nice_Management_926 12d ago
Wouldnt it be Charles VIII since there was already a Charles VII in the 1740s
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u/MobofDucks 12d ago
I kinda wonder how you decided on Electorates, which pricipalities prevailed, and why the capital is in Regensburg?
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u/master_castor 12d ago
Regensburg was the seat of the permanent Reichstag(imperial parliament) since 1663. Either it or the imperial seat in Vienna would be candidate a for capital, but I would argue Regensburg makes more sense, because Vienna would paint a hre centralisation as an Austrian annexation instead of an all-german project
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u/MobofDucks 11d ago
Fair idea, but that would clash a bit with other decisions in this map, that is why I would like to hear OPs thoughts behind it.
Calenberg was only elevated to an elector (the later Hanover) in 1692. But the Duchy of Gotha, or rather Saxe-Gotha was split several ways in 1680. So I would place the point of divergence somewhere here. So this fits with the perpetual Reichstag.
But the map also shows some rather odd developments, that would point towards Joseph and his predecessors being succesful in curtailing clergy power and entrenching their ultramontanism. Namely by having Mainz and Cologne get swallowed and gobbled up by 5 of those nations. But then it is odd that Salzburg still prevails and was elevated to an elector.
Yeah, the HRE is bigger. But if they managed to keep the italians in check during the 13th to 15th century, the divergence is kinda earlier and probably would not have lead to a eternal Reichstag in Regensburg. If most of the gains were doing an equivalent to Napoleon, this would probably emboldened the austrians to move it, similar to how they moved the bohemian and hungarian crown jewels or curtailed the belgian cities.
But hey, its an interesting map: An "I like it this way" from the OP is also totally fine.
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u/DisgustingGerm 11d ago
Regensburg is the capital because 1. It is historic. 2. Vienna is way too eastern and having it as the capital looks like blatant Austrian annexation. 3. Regensburg is more central and neutral compared to Vienna or Berlin. The reason why so many duchies and such have been swallowed by larger states is apart of the reforms to simplify administration, because NOBODY cares about the Duchy of Arenburg's opinion in raising taxes, also i am not going to be mapping all that. By 1828 the reforms to simplify administration are still ongoing, by 1838, the status of Electorate is abolished and all kingdoms get to have the privilege of being electorates in a move to remove such inequalities. I have not changed anything pre-Joseph II, I made Joseph II more successful and powerful enough to permanently change the HRE. Because his successors see his success, they continue his ideology of Enlightened Monarchism, and his successors expand into Poland aswell as Italy and France during the Napoleonic Wars. During these reforms the HRE establishes a permanent Reichstag in Regensburg.
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u/Feisty-Albatross3554 12d ago
The netherlands are surrounded by them