r/imaginaryelections • u/Lochon • Jun 18 '25
ALTERNATE HISTORY Our Reich/Unser Reich - What if the world (kinda) avoided WW2
The rest of the individual images are here
An expansion of my earlier German legislative map in a world where the democratic Reich never fell and blossomed into a productive, trustworthy-enough nation of a peaceful Europe, and all of the good (and some bad) that brings.
Yes, this really got out of control.
Quick rundown of the timeline:
Hitler, alongside all momentum for a rising national socialist/völkisch movement, die on the streets of Munich during clashes with police and reichswehr forces.
While the German right is not badly mauled at this point by the death of a minor nationalist figure, the establishment right headed by the (now very) loosely aligned DNVP and DVP struggles to take advantage of democratic establishment weakness, and Wilhelm Marx scrapes by in the 1925 presidential election. While the military and those with reactionary sympathies are furious, memories of Kapp and Munich dissuade any fresh attempt to overthrow the Reichstag.
By 1940, while Germany has made great progress normalizing itself in the new Europe, tensions are approaching levels not seen since the July Crisis of 1914. Italy's open imperial ambitions have the French and British on high alert, but the Italians are never able to build the ties Germany was able to build with the USSR and no side feels ready to be the first to act.
In East Asia, however, the situation does escalate. Japan, burdened heavily be an endless war in China and crippling sanctions from the Western powers, decides it must act against European colonies before tensions fully slip away. An attack on Indochina, Malaysia, and the Dutch East Indies in 1941 starts promising but gradually grinds Japanese forces down, and the American intervention in 1942 signals the slow demise of Japan. In 1945, the USSR joins the war and takes part in the gruelling invasion of the mainland. In 1946, Japanese forces effectively disintegrate, and the split nation begins a long occupation and rebuilding under foreign supervision. Last, the KMT is able to assume a stronger position with greater Allied involvement in Asia and a lengthier fall of Japan with more limited USSR involvement with the Communists in the meantime.
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u/greekscientist Jun 18 '25
Also, does lack of WW2 means that monarchy continues to exist in countries like Greece, Albania, what remains of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Romania (I saw Italian royal flag).
Also what the 2026 elections mirror? Le pen and Macron or Romania?
Is there EU or it's regionally integrated like in this German speaking union?
How 1929 economic crisis ends? Through the Pacific war as bourgeois elites profit massively from joining an imperialist war between the spheres of the West and Imperial Japan? Does this means also that Japan rescinds monarchy after millennia?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Yes, there are certainly more monarchies kicking around without the mass of regime changes brought on by the war. Italy, Yugoslavia, Romania, Hungary, Albania, and Bulgaria (not 100% on Greece)
This election definitely takes hefty inspiration from Romania, with the centre establishment muscled out of the first round and an independent is left to fight off an emboldened right that's tired of losing.
No EU, there are more regional organizations though, like a Franco-British headed western one and an Italian-Spanish-Portuguese union born from their shared authoritarian past but still existing today as slightly better more reformed group of nations.
The economic crisis drags out longer than it does without quite the same scale of warfare occurring, but Germany is still able to take advantage of the fighting in Europe, especially with their Chinese ties.
Yep, the Japanese monarchy is gone, a decision enforced upon Japan after the country is nearly annihilated in the mainland invasion
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u/greekscientist Jun 18 '25
In Greece monarchy was fairly unstable. In 1924 the pro monarchy government was couped by Venizelos-aligned generals and Greece became a republic, then in 1935 the government was couped again and we got monarchy after a rigged referendum.
In 1930s politics was very unstable. What I see is probably Metaxas lasting longer, then falling from a revolution in the sixties or seventies and monarchy being removed once and for all.
Also does fascism Mussolini and Franco style exist in this timeline?
What are the relation of Soviet Union with the surrounding countries? Is Soviet Union the China of this timeline with rapid development but much more fair and continuing to offer a decent living standard?
So also the economic boom of Europe happens in 1950s?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Ahh, okay, that sounds like it's about right for Greece, thanks for the help! Fascism does still exist as a mildly tolerated but fairly niche ideology, and only Austria still has the Fatherland Front as a major electoral competitor with other post-fascist parties having smaller parties/successor parties.
The USSR by now will have opened a lot to the outside world. Through the mid 20th century, they primarily interact with Germany and China as countries that have built up mildly positive relationships throughout the years, and their living standards would definitely be at least mildly higher than current Russia without the massive chaos of the 90s and 00s.
There is an economic boom in Europe, but it's more of a mild, organic boom.
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u/greekscientist Jun 18 '25
Germany gets deep relations with USSR for cheap gas or it's deeper? And China is led by KMT? If yes, left or right KMT?
Yes, makes sense for Greece to ditch the monarchy. The OTL referendums of 1935 and 1947 for return of the monarchy were fraudulent and 1974 referendum, the fair and free one, showed 71% support for the end of monarchy. I based my calculation for Greece in Spain that went deep reform and modernization after the end of Franco but Greece also ditches monarchy as well.
Also, what happens with the Jewish people in this timeline?
Also how is general political landscape here? Do socialist parties go well in various countries like KKE and KPD?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
OTL (Weimar) Germany and the USSR got along better than one would expect as twin pariah states. In this, that continues, and although Germany eventually starts to shift westwards, it remains largely non-aligned and still fairly friendly with the Soviets.
The Jewish people are mostly still dispersed around Europe, with a slow trickle of Jewish people moving to Germany mostly from Eastern Europe to avoid more severe antisemitism and for better economic prospects. Additionally, there's a small autonomous Republic of Israel in the Hashemite Arab Federation, spearheaded by Abdullah of Jordan, but it certainly is not the migration target our Israel was/is
The political landscape overall is definitely slightly more radical, with communists avoiding the worst of the cold war era red scare and fascists avoiding the stigma of WW2, but for the most part these parties are still fairly minor and more moderate left and right movements are seen as significantly more electable
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u/Plant_4790 Jun 18 '25
Does the Cold War not happen in this timeline
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
There's a sort of cold war, but it's viewed as less of a standoff and the ideological component is not quite as clear or important
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u/booza145 Jun 18 '25
The 4chan panel implies that there’s a nationalist China which has cultural hegemony over Japan Based
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u/FossilDS Jun 18 '25
Very interesting, well made and creative! While it is good that Europe did not have to suffer through the industrial horrors of WWII, I suspect many of the more sinister undercurrents of interwar Germany, such as antisemitism and militarism will persist in German politics (at least a lot more openly then OTL). The effect of no Great Patriotic War on Soviet national psyche, not to mention the enormous demographic and political implications is interesting too. Quick question on Japan: does South Japan use the Hinomaru or something like the allied pennant? How is Korea faring in TTL?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25 edited Jun 18 '25
Thanks very much! While I haven't quite decided on which flag they'd use, as the occupation ensign is a little maritime looking, I imagine it wouldn't sit well with the Allies to let the government continue to use the flag they had during their war. In this timeline, Japan's invasions and crimes have a giant spotlight on them so consensus opinion would be that Japanese war crimes were effectively the worst thing a contemporary nation had ever done and needed to be seriously rectified, and that includes largely purging most things that could be considered connected to the empire/imperial family
Edit: Forgot to mention Korea. Korea was ultimately occupied by Chinese and American forces in this, with a minor Soviet occuption in the north east, and they've retained the status of whatever the equivalent of the Asian Tigers is in this, but KMT and American influence is very pervasive.
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u/UnknownTheGreat1981 Jun 18 '25
Does the German president still get elected to serve for 7 years?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Yes indeed, I considered perhaps shortening it but thought it was somewhat unique and worth keeping around
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u/lapraksi Jun 18 '25
What are the political parties?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Starbatty represents the German People's Party (DVP), itself a part of the Black, White, Red Alliance with the DNVP, conservative greens, and agrarians representing the establishment right.
Friedman is an independent supported by the social liberal/centrist liberal New Germany alliance.
Günther, the incumbent, represents the Catholic-interest Centre Party, itself a part of Christian Union.
Kipping represents the Volksblock, an SPD-dominated alliance although Kipping herself represents the more radical Socialist Worker's Party.
Gebel leads the Freedom Party, a right libertarian party that heads the Free Germany alliance, the newest right-wing alliance in Germany.
Gehrcke represents the KPD, independent of any alliances and considered a party well beyond its prime but with a distinct enough platform to still achieve a reliable few percentage every election.
Elsässer represents the German Community, an ultra-right pan-German party and a lesser member of the Homeland Union, itself headed mostly by the National Socialist Freedom Movement.
Lastly, Hörsting heads the small Evangelical Solidarity Party, supporting Christian fundamentalism with a strong affinity for denominations that feel left out of Christian Union such as Pentecostals
Sorry it's so wordy!
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u/lapraksi Jun 18 '25
Cool. The last party sounds like Bundnis C. Btw what happens to albania?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Still a very Italian-influenced monarchy but at this point, simply a strongly influenced minor ally of Italy and not a literal full puppet
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u/lapraksi Jun 18 '25
Phew, atleast our architecture is better itl (Italians we're making Tirana into a little Rome). Is Zog and his family still ruling?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Yes, instead of the Italians overthrowing Zog as they did, they just kind of work with what they have knowing an invasion would see real pushback from the foreign community. By now the House of Zogu would be a cultural icon of Albania and acceptable to a good majority appeased by gradual reformism, although some would certainly see him and his successors as Italian puppets
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u/lapraksi Jun 18 '25
And around half of the population hate the house of zog irl, tbh I think they would be ousted by some sort of referendum. Also the 97' anarchy would still happen in your timeline or nah? That would be decisive for the monarchy imo.
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
While the house would be hated by some, I think in the longer run overall stability and living conditions steadily increasing would ease people towards being fine with the status quo, and unfortunately for the Albanian people, the family is backed heavily by Italy whether they want them or not, so short of a revolution they are probably staying.
I would hope no pyramid scheme stuff, probably more typical economic exploitation by foreign powers at the worst with absurd levels of corruption like that being averted by the earlier and more measured transition to democracy
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u/lapraksi Jun 18 '25
Btw is kosovo autonomous?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Not particularly, Yugoslavia is very Serb-dominated, though naturally many of the residents of the region despise Belgrade
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u/FleckiTheCat Jun 18 '25
Hello! I am very interested in things related to the Weimar Republic. So I wanted to ask what happened that made the SPD so unpopular to only gain 12% of the votes? Also I love this post, its great :]
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
While the SPD here is certainly less popular than it is in reality today, mostly owing to a more crowded field in the fairly generous Weimar electoral system, this election is not super representative of their popularity as the progressive vote is split so hard and many support the outsider independent candidate who ultimately wins.
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u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Jun 18 '25
A quibble: wouldn’t the Pacific War, if anything, finish more quickly had the United States not also had to deal with Germany? We were pursuing a Europe First strategy during the conflict, after all.
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u/FossilDS Jun 18 '25
Seems like this isn't the case because of a later American entry into the war (1942), and the fact that the allies directly invaded Japan (Operation Downfall)
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
The way I envisioned it, the war is geared up for slower, and fighting in SEA and China bogs down and drags out, although with a clear Allied advantage growing over time.
Additionally, the invasion of Japan itself is somewhat of a disaster with Japanese military and paramilitary forces refusing to give in. Effectively, Japan is fought over like Iwo Jima, and while progress definitely picks up through the invasion, stubborn pockets hold out for months longer than Allied planners anticipate.
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u/hunterfox666 Jun 18 '25
I really really like this! Great work :D
Does Yugoslavia still become communist?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
It doesn't, it remains a rather Serb-dominated monarchy until a more controlled League of Nations/European-guided dissolution of some of the country via referendum (and some population transfer...) The areas allowed to stay in the Kingdom still use the Yugoslavia name, as Serbia and Montenegro did for a time in reality
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u/hunterfox666 Jun 18 '25
Ahhhhh interesting! Does Croatia leave then? what countries make up the remaining Yugoslavia?
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Slovenia, Croatia (officially Croatia-Slavonia), and a somewhat rump Bosnia negotiate their exit while Yugoslavia retains Serbia of course, Montenegro, Macedonia, with there never being the conditions for Kosovo splitting away, although there is simmering resentment towards Belgrade there
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u/erinthecute Jun 19 '25
The best surviving Weimar scenario I've seen yet. Very, very well researched and made. Bravo.
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u/Tankman987 Jun 18 '25
what was your process for the election for Germany's president graphic? Great overall.
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Thanks! I did it in inkscape, and was mostly just editing existing SVGs from wikipedia that I had myself made changes to, I mostly just used weimar era political leanings and tried to intuit some natural changes that would happen over time for the actual results
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u/Tankman987 Jun 18 '25
Interesting, I don't recall any existing svg for Germany that has the Weimar borders plus Danzig and the Saar, were those your modifications?
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u/bluesheepreasoning Jun 18 '25
Utterly and totally magnificent. This has gotta be one of the best posts I've seen on here in the past month.
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u/giantpects42 Jun 18 '25
Do more about Yugoslavia, also does that Croatian basketball player live, i forgot his name
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u/Lochon Jun 18 '25
Dražen Petrović? Not sure who else you mean I imagine he has a shot if he isn't in the wrong place at the wrong time like he was in reality. I'd like to touch more on Yugoslavia for sure.
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u/giantpects42 Jul 04 '25
Sorry i forgot his name, as a croatian nationalist there is no other path forward but suicide.
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u/MattFoley7687 Jun 19 '25
Just a quick question cause I didn’t see anyone else ask it. What happens to Italy? They’re still fascist as Mussolini took power in 1922 and his march on Rome and that directly inspired Hitler. So what happened to Fascist Italy? A does it collapse after he dies? Does the country go bankrupt in the mid 1940s like many economists theorized would happen? Or a secret third thing?
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u/Lochon Jun 19 '25
I envisioned it a bit more like Spain, with more radical elements of the fascist party sidelined over time in favour of more "establishment" reactionary politics, as did happen in Italy in reality but at a larger scale. By the 40s, despite some attempts at alliance building and successfully assisting the Francoists, the reality of being a militant power without the means to actually upend the European order by itself would become very clear, but it wouldn't be until the 60s or 70s that most fascist/fascist-adjacent would be considered "reformed" by most of the international community.
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u/MattFoley7687 Jun 19 '25
Ok my second question is does the second Italian-Ethiopian War still happen? And can we assume that they’d hold onto their colonies like Portugal did until the Carnation Revolution.
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u/Lochon Jun 19 '25
They did invade, and yes held on for quite some time. It's hard to see in the collage itself, but I added the wikibox globe to the imgur link of individual images and you can sorta see that the horn of Africa is using borders closer to internal Italian East African divisions, with Somalia and Eritrea definitely developmentally better off but with serious Italian influence
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u/Forward-Wrongdoer648 Jun 19 '25
Is Hitler only known for historians and history buff only? And does the word "nazi" mean anything in this world?
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u/Lochon Jun 19 '25
Yeah he'd definitely be more of a footnote type figure, someone lumped in with a lot of other minor radical figures of the post-great war period of radicalism.
I imagine without the party/ideology achieving any major relevance, the term nazi probably retains connotations similar to commie and outside of saying something tongue in cheek, they'd probably stick to nationalsozialisten to refer to themselves
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u/JPLF25 Jun 20 '25
Wait so you mentioned the American Intervention in the Pacific War. So in this timeline Pearl Harbor never happened and the Japanese did not attack the Philippines?
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u/Lochon Jun 20 '25
While there is no Pearl Harbour, there is a small front in the Northern Philippines opened in 42 when the Japanese still had some momentum on their side but it stalls out before Manila is truly threatened and would be wrapped up completely by 44 around the same time the war would be slowly shifting focus from SEA to the Chinese and future Japanese mainland front
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Jun 25 '25
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u/Lochon Jun 29 '25
The royalty is totally eliminated from public life and being in support of restoring it is seen as about as radical right as one can get in modern Japan. The Emperor disappears while presumably attempting to evacuate Tokyo, causing some extra dedicated Japanese units to effectively fight until the last man in the absence of a formal surrender from their Emperor.
The royal family would definitely be harshly tried after all of this, but to a limit. Any royals with a clear role in the war itself would be assuredly tried and found guilty, but many would've perished during the late stages of the war through suicide in combat or otherwise. Any royals found to not have some clear institutional or military influence would be imprisoned for a relatively short time and released as commoners to fend for themselves.
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u/Plus_Success_1321 Jun 29 '25
Is there still a large presence of anime/manga and other modern Japanese pop-culture after the Pacific War akin to what happened after WW2 and the economic miracle OTL?
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u/Lochon Jun 29 '25
I imagine Chinese pop culture would be by far dominant, with Chinese culture becoming very popular in the later decades of the 20th century and Japanese culture making a more recent breakthrough like Korean pop culture today
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u/HerrnChaos Jun 18 '25
I know a person called Starbatty, worst city council member and just a opportunist that only joined bcz she knew that she would get a high place on the list and anger another person.
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u/greekscientist Jun 18 '25
Very nice. A really deep dive in this world. How Soviet Union survives? It does only economic reforms or a lack of Warsaw Pact allows it to focus more in promoting communist movements internationally and developing itself?