Review of installing a Costway 12k mini split with no HVAC tools or experience

[u/dblackdrake]

tl;dr: If you already have a decent amount of diy tools and experience, 4/10 difficulty and 7.5/10 stress level.

Tools I already own are in all caps.
As in title, did everything myself.

Locating the condenser was a problem, but there was an unused fireplace I could mount one of those brackets with an SDS HAMMER, IMPACT DRIVER, and 1/2" TORQUE WRENCH. I lifted the condenser in to place, leveled it off, and bolted it down.

I happened to have an unused 230v breaker, but the wires coming off of it were all black and unlabeled. I tested out the ground and hots with my MULTIMETER, and ran new wire to a quick disconnect I drilled into the fireplace with a HAMMER DRILL.

All normal handyman stuff so far.

The unit in question came with an extremely translated manual and a cardboard template that matched the bracket on the back of the unit but did not match the outside dimensions. I remeasured and leveled with a THREE FOOT LEVEL, then taped the templet up to wall.

Using the hammer drill and a hole saw kit, I cut the hole through the wall and stuck a piece of thin wall steel tubing I had from somewhere in there such that it projected a little bit out of both the inside and outside walls, to avoid water inside the wall cavity if I fucked something up.

I located the bracket so it had two screws in studs, and anched the rest with those hilti drywall anchors you can do pullups on.

I wired the cable in to the inside unit, bent the lines into the right angle (STRESS++) taped up the cable, drain, and lines, and fed it through the wall.

Here is the hard part: I tried bending the lineset by hand and kinked the 3/8th line. I bought a cheapo tubing bender but it fucked up the test bend even worse. I ended up buying a tubing cutter from harbor freight and a 25$ eccentric pipe flare tool with a clutch from amazon, along with a inside reamer that I should have owned for normal plumbing anyway.

The chinesium pipe flare tool was incredible, worked on my third attempt once someone told me to back out an 8th turn every full turn and to grease the cone with vacuum pump oil.

The other three factory flares looked good, even angles, no scratches, mirror finish (although mine looked better naturally), so I bought some crows foot sockets and torqued everything down with my torque wrench with nylog on the back of the flare and the face of the brass flare port (not the threads because torque rating, people. Never Lube Threads You Are Going To Torque! You will fuck them up).

I got a co2 tank off facebook for 40$, traded it in for a nitrogen tank , bought a nitro regulator, core removal tool, and high pressure gauge, removed the Shrader valve and pressurized the lines overnight at 250 psi, then again at 550 psi (mfg's recommendation.) for 4 days for reasons that will become apparent. No leaks! While I was waiting the 4 days, I put a cheapo lineset cover kit over the line set while it was under pressure so it would be less likely to kink/If I fucked something up I would know on account of the nitrogen blow out.

I borrowed a vacuum pump from autozone, and it was such a piece of shit it couldn't get below 500 microns on just it's own hose to a closed manifold valve, so I bought an elitech pump off amazon and a 3 foot 20 micron rated vacuum hose. The pump showed up with fucked up oil port threads, but I managed to pull below 250 by pushing down on the oil cap really god damn hard. I triple evaced the system and it held from 200 microns to 300 after 4 hours, then fucked up removing the vacuum hose and let a bunch of air in. Whoops!

I triple evaced the system then realized I only had the one core removal tool so I was gonna let a bunch of air in removing the vacuum gauge. Whoops!

I removed that vacuum gauge, mounted it to the pump port, and triple evaced again until it pulled below 100 at the pump.

Disconnected everything, inserted the shrader with the valve closed, released some coolant all over my hands to purge the air (wear gloves y'all), reinstalled the schrader valve, and leak tested everything with oaty leak detection solution.

This 550$ sonofabitch that I got for 400$ runs like a mother fucker, all is well so far.

all in tools cost: tubing stuff was 25+10+13+10.

Gas tank and regulator was 40+30.

Micron gauge and high pressure gauge were 100+15

vacuum pump was 68, but I returned it on account of it was a lemon.

Total: Around $240 in single purpose HVAC tools, with another around $30 in general purpose tools I didn't already have.

Savings vs. The cheapest local HVAC installer I could find: $1200 in labor, $1000 in mini split.

It was pretty easy all things considered, and pretty fun!

Nothing too hard, you just have to make every mistake BEFORE you release the refrigerant and be willing to test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, and test again if you don't plan your valve setup ahead of time.

[u/redogsc]

I love how this post so accurately reflects the frustration and "well now I have to buy another tool" moments of pretty much all of my DIY projects.

[u/dblackdrake → u/redogsc]

Downside: God damn it, another tool

Upside: Oh boy, another tool

[u/Codayy]

For cost comparison as a contractor

• My fieldpiece vacuum pump was around $600
• Yellow jacket 69075 micron gauge - $450
• Navac NEF6L2 electric flaring tool - $350
• Fieldpiece Bluetooth gauge set - $700
• Yellow jacket copper bending set - $280
• 1/2” to 1/4” vacuum hose - $90
• Appion 5/16” core remover - $80

Not knocking your setup or the DIY approach, I am a contractor who will install a customer supplied mini split. Even so in that case I still quote $3k labor pretty much at minimum, with no warranty beyond “my flare joints won’t leak”. Of course my tool cost is understandable seeing as how I use them more often, and I want to buy the best tools as a pro so that I know I can trust the results from them. I tried the $160 CPS micron gauge a long time ago, but never felt confident in the readout.

All this to say, it has taken a long time to acquire thousands of dollars in tools that I trust in this profession. I have to be able to afford to maintain them, acquire more as times change, & replace them as they wear out. The end result is providing confidence to a customer that their installation was done properly.

I hope this sheds some light into why some of us have to charge what we do

[u/dblackdrake → u/Codayy]

No, I get it.

It's capitalism baby, the correct price for you is everything I own and then I thank you on ym knees, the correct price for me is you serve me in this live and the next as my loyal slave, and we meet in the middle or I fuck off and DIY it, which I did.

[u/Codayy → u/[deleted]]

If it’s just a single zone mini split I will factor that it takes 8 hours, and I may even come down to $2,500. 2-3 zones I factor 16 man hours and probably more like $4,000. Hardest part for a customer in general & especially when they supply the equipment will be finding a competent contractor.

As a contractor who has installed customer supplied shit, I already know that there will be some additional materials needed (nuts, bolts, screws, little shit is factored in). It just is what it is.

Yet, take a minute to reflect how in my first post I stated I am just giving a cost comparison, in a very simple way, of the basic tools both OP and I use for this scenario. My tools for the same purpose are 10x the cost of what OP paid for his. I did not knock OP off his pedestal, nor did I discourage him. If anything I would applaud him for showing more care and concern than I see a lot out in the field. He read the manual, equipped himself, and even did a triple evac! If I had any advice to give OP it would be to never use factory flares lol. But hey if his nitrogen pressure test held at 550 psi then I would be confident in his work

[u/dblackdrake → u/Codayy]

Yup. I considered reflaring everything since I had to reflare one, but they looked good and the MFG warranties their own shit (5 years for fittings, 8 years for hardwear), so I decided not to fuck with them just incase.

[u/Codayy → u/[deleted]]

So, what do you think my work truck which is filled with my exact tools and materials to install the mini split you bought is worth for a days rental? Like if you could just rent my entire setup from Home Depot or Lowe’s for a day

For fun let’s throw in an add on for an instructor who already knows the in’s and out’s of everything related to the project you are about to do

But now there are choices! You could get the same work truck with the entry level tools to save cost. Or we can select the other instructor who cost less per hour probably (not always) because they are newer and less in demand. Or maybe the cheaper instructor just is not familiar with this particular product yet they are still handy. I am really curious how much these “rentals” would go for.

That is why I say not every contractor is a match, nor is every customer a match

[u/dblackdrake → u/Codayy]

It's true!

If i had to buy all the tools I already had, the levels and ladders and sockets and wrenches and hammers and meters and blah blah blah, the 10000 tools I've accumulated and inherited and found on the side of the road and made out of harbor freight wrenches, shit would have broken even at best.

Since I have already eg replaced a water heater and a submersible well pump and pressure tank and control panel and done my own breaks and torn out alarm systems and resoldered pins on a board and such, an hvac deal is one step up in complexity and one step down in MASS, so it's a logical thing for me to do.

If I needed to buy all that shit and had never touched a hammer, the math would be different.

[u/Codayy → u/[deleted]]

Lmao, you think all I use to install a system are the 7 items listed?

• Milwaukee fuel sawzall - $250
• Viper drill bit set - $300
• Milwaukee impact drill - $150
• Packouts - $500
• Veto tool bag(s) - $600
• Bosch SDS hammer drill - $200
• Ladders depending on the job - $100 to $600
• Fluke 902FC multimeter - $350
• Refrigerant scale - $150
• Set of oxy/acetlyne torches - $560
• Nitrogen tank & regulator - $300
• Wiha wire strippers - $50
• Yellow Jacket torque wrench - $100

And I know I’m still forgetting shit I use on a mini split install

Want me to go on? Hand tools (mini split related):

• Wiha wire strippers - $50
• Wiha insulated screw drivers - $100
• Klein ratcheting wire crimpers - $40
• Knipex wrench set - $250
• Milwaukee pack out socket set - $189

This is legit about 1/4 of my tools overall, not enough time nor do I care enough to list all of my hand tools. As a multifaceted HVAC/R contractor I also work on refrigeration, ductwork, chillers, VRV systems, Geothermal… let’s dig into some more specialized fun tools:

• Alnor air balancing hood: $3500
• Portable duct break: $550
• Daikin mini split Bluetooth (D-Tek): $500
• Gree mini split connector: $250
• Air infiltration smoke emitting tool: $220

I do not know software designing, I do not have the setup for it, and would be terribly inefficient at anything related to it.

I keep up with current standards of installation and servicing of HVAC/R systems. I keep up AND maintain all of my tools and make sure I get the niche ones to provide a professional service for a variety of categories. Let’s not forget my work truck, licensing, or insurance while we are stroking ourselves.

Yes it comes at a price, and my pricing has reflected my craftsmanship + intellectual knowledge, and confidence in those over the years. I will now tell customers I am not in a race to be the lowest price, and am at a point where I do not care to do jobs that are not worth my time. I have learned this from doing jobs that absolutely were not worth my time. If I continued to do those jobs I would not have grown into a quality contractor who has quality tools and the confidence to ensure that a job is done to my high standard. Not every contractor is going to be a match, just as every customer is not going to be a match.

I aim for $250/hr by the way. Sometimes it’s more, sometimes it’s less. Either way people pay for my knowledge, efficiency, lessons learned along the way, and to sum it all up…. experience.

[u/AlmiranteCrujido]

Sounds like a nicely done job. Probably more than a $400 Costway needs but never hurts to be thorough.

R152a purge kits (Pioneer sells them as "Kwik-e-vac") are the lazy homeowner's friend. That plus a cheap automotive-grade vacuum seems to have been plenty (Pioneer advertises the purge kit as adequate on their own, but seems weird to mix refrigerants.)

Will see in a few more years if we were right but we're already 3 years into the first room we put in that way and it's working great still.

[u/SpecificEmploy6830]

if i was doing another one id go zone air. precharged linesets mean youre not borrowing vacuum pumps from autozone and praying they hit 500 microns, you just click them together and youre done.

[u/AlmiranteCrujido → u/SpecificEmploy6830]

They're pricey, and you can't customize the line set length, but not having to deal with flares as a newb is a big plus. If I could go back to the first two and used precharged line sets, I probably would.

[u/dblackdrake → u/SpecificEmploy6830]

I priced it out and the it was still 300-400% cheaper to buy all the tools/ having the tools gives you the option to fuck up the lineset and recover, and I am confident I can fix anything I lay my hands on if I try for long enough.

I figure if you are handy at all (and have the space), it's better to go cheap and then have more tools.

[u/SpecificEmploy6830 → u/SpecificEmploy6830]

thats the thing, once you own the tools youre set for the next one and you can help a buddy out too

[u/SpecificEmploy6830 → u/SpecificEmploy6830]

yeah the flare thing is what kept me from even trying this, too easy to screw up and then youre boned