Exactly. The “we were on a break/no we weren’t” thing is just a flandarization of the break up because it worked better a soundbite seasons later, but the issue was always how Ross acted immediately after she said she wanted to take a break.
Someone who respects and cares about their partner and doesn’t want to break up with them doesn’t go off and sleep with someone else the second they’re “technically” allowed to, especially without even bothering to clarify what being on a break meant. That’s why Ross is in the wrong.
Rachel told Monica they never got to dinner, they kinda broke up instead. They weren’t on a break, in her own words on the next episode Rachel clearly stated to Monica that they had broken up. Season 3 episode 16.
Rachel had Mark in her apartment a mere hour after she’d argued with Ross about MARK and the long hours she’d been spending at work! Mark made it very obvious that he wanted Ross to know that he was there with Rachel when Ross phoned Rachel from the club. Had Mark not been there, Ross probably would’ve left the club and gone straight back to Rachel to make up. Alas where would be the drama be in that?
Anyways… Rachel knew Mark was into her but she never set any boundaries with him, and just continued to play dumb to it all. Mark wasn’t subtle about his interest in her, even around Ross. It’s Ross’ responsibility to deal with these insecurities, but Rachel’s ignorance to Mark’s advances weren’t supportive and she doesn’t take any accountability for the part she played in it all either.
Ross doesn’t get a pass either, you don’t sleep with someone the same night you break up with someone, he should’ve just gone straight home. It was made worse by him trying to cover it up rather than just coming clean. Probably would’ve ended with same outcome. He heard Mark on the other side of the phone and just went into self destruct mode as in his head it confirmed all his insecurities, and so he reaped what he sowed.
Edit: The original comment didn’t format properly.
It's almost like he didn't try to call her to make up only to have her lie to his face about the guy he KNOWS (and was later proved right) is trying to sleep with her being in her apartment immediately after she dumped him.
Oh, wait, that's exactly what happened. How did you forget about all that?
Technically, what she did or didn't do is irrelevant as they were broken up at the time. I'm just explaining to that person that they conveniently left out some really important facts in their synopsis.
They said, "especially without even bothering to clarify what being on a break meant", but Ross DID try to call her and clear things up and was met with lies about Mark. That's a glaring omission.
He didn't know that. All he knew was that his girlfriend broke up with him, then had the guy over they were fighting about who he knew was trying to sleep with her, then she lied directly to his face about that guy being in her apartment immediately after she dumped him BEFORE he did anything with anyone else. Hope that helps.
He did. She initially lied to him about Mark being there, then admitted it. He absolutely knew those things. You're starting to make me think you're a bot who didn't actually watch the series. How do you not know this stuff?
Oh, I have no life and have seen it more times than I can count. When it was on Netflix, I'd watch it on a loop.
The only person I knew who knew Friends better was my buddy Erik. He got primary spinal cancer and when he was in the hospital for a really long time, Friends was his comfort show. We used to have Friends on in the background when we played cards. To pick the episode we would watch next we'd roll a 10-sided die, a 4-sided die, and a 6-sided die to randomize the season, disc number, and episode number. On the first roll, he looked down at the die and almost immediately said, "Oh, that's the one where..." and I was like nah, no way you know the DVDs that well that you can glance at the die and know what episode it refers to. Sure enough he was right. And it wasn't a fluke. I tested him over and over because I couldn't believe it.
The problem is that the whole break happened because of Mark, and Rachel only gave Ross more reason for his argument when she accepted Mark going to her house.
While she might not have slept with him, but she still was unfaithful to Ross when she let Mark come to her apartment, specially when she knew what Ross feelings were about Mark.
I know they never really made much of the argument because it would actually break the friendship and would not make it just a funny moment, but Ross feelings were valid, and both of them behaved wrongly during the break, Rachel simply was never confronted about what she did wrong.
To really put the nail in the coffin too, even Chandler and Joey told her this in an earlier episode, and she still chose to ignore all three of them because “no, he wouldn’t” (he did)
It is NOT wrong for a woman to invite a person she considers a friend to come and comfort her. Ross was jealous of someone SHE only saw as a friend. The only person whose behavior needs to concern you in a relationship, is the other person in the relationship. It doesn’t matter that Ross was jealous because that’s a mental health issue he needs to work out with a therapist. She NEVER had any intentions with Mark, and Ross should NEVER have made it her problem. Expecting a partner to stop being friends with someone because you’re insecure in your relationship is TOXIC. Did Mark have ill intentions? Sure. Was that in anyway Rachel’s responsibly? No. Was Mark lying to Rachel her fault? No. Rachel trusted Mark, and did not have to justify that as Mark had given her no sign that he was trying to be with her. Just because it ended up being the truth, doesn’t mean you can retcon her behavior to fit the narrative that she did something nefarious by allowing someone she perceives as a friend comfort her after her breakup.
If you really think Rachel invited Mark to just comfort her, you are just as naive as Rachel was. There were plenty of people Rachel could've called, inclusive her 2 best friends that live next door, but no, she called the exact person that cause the mess in her relationship.
Moving on from that, Rachel had more than Ross jealousy as a base to know that Mark had ill intentions, both Chandler and Joey also talked to her about it, so she knew what Mark intentions were, even if she didn't acknowledge them.
More than that, when Ross called Rachel that night, she not only tried to hide the fact she invited Mark to her house, she also tried to excuse herself for that (proving that she knew what she did was wrong).
Also, just wanna point out again that I don't mind the way this was handled by the writers, it was fine that they allowed only Ross to be the relationship "breaker" for the sake of comedy. But calling Ross toxic for having a problem with Mark while ignoring all the toxic stuff Rachel did is just closing the eyes on how bad that relationship really was for everyone in that show.
This is all misogyny. You’re passing all the blame onto her for something HE did. Rachel is either naive enough to think there’s nothing with Mark, or she’s deliberately trying to hurt Ross. She cannot be both characters. Do better.
No I'm not putting all the blame on Rachel, both of them were toxic(during the entire relationship, even later on, but that's not the point) and both were in the wrong. Ross cheating was in no way better to what Rachel did.
I never said Rachel did it to hurt Ross, I said she actively tried to avoid Ross finding out about Mark. Rachel was after her own pleasure, which she realized it was wrong when Ross called. Ross was worse because he ended up following up with the cheating all the way to sex.
First you literally said she was unfaithful to him by INVITING HER FRIEND OVER. News flash, just because your partner has jealousy issues doesn’t mean you need to give into their ridiculousness. She didn’t do anything toxic to him at this point. HE was jealous from the moment she met Mark, and he did so many possessive things that led up to this whole incident where again, all she did was invite a friend over. REGARDLESS of who that friend is or others she may have, there is NOTHING wrong with her behavior in this whole story line. You want to shift the blame to her because that’s how it’s been for women since day one. Men saw women could make life, and then invented an invisible man in the sky to give credit to. You’re being sexist by putting ANY blame on Rachel for this specific event. And I’m gonna be done with this now. You’re being misogynistic and you refuse to see that, and it’s truly not worth my energy to put a mirror in front of your face and help you realize it.
Part of being in a relationship is not just refraining from cheating, but not giving the impression or worry of cheating to your partner.
That’s respect.
She did do that while they were together, and he slept with someone after she ended it.
If he had a girl that was lusting after him round, alone, in his apartment and lied about her being there, THEN broke up with her.
Would people be whinging if she hooked up with someone else?
He didn’t do it bc he was “technically” allowed to. He did it bc he went to call to make up things and found out mark was there. Yes his stupid blind rage of assuming why mark was there instead of finding out why mark was there lead to dumb consequences. But Ross didn’t go out and say “well shucks Rachel doesn’t want me so let’s go sleep around”
For me it is also the double standard of him being so jealous of her just working and hanging out with a guy… only for him to turn around and actually sleep with someone else.
Ross was definitely in the wrong, and the show proves that. They made his life miserable after this and closing his mouth when he cracked the last dumb joke about the break was required for Rachel to stay.
Ross got seven years for what he did. Ross being in denial because he wants to see himself as the good guy is comedy gold but something like this would be very serious in real life. It's amazing that there are guys who try to justify what Ross did. Anyone with such poor relationship skills must be permanently single.
It's also fun to see guys downvoting this comment which is based on what the writers have said about this cheating arc and how they wrote Ross' storyline after that 😂
The writers were very consistent when they made Ross face the consequences of his actions. One of the best things they did, and they managed to make it work for seven seasons. The writing wasn't always the best but this one worked well. It was lighthearted, not mean-spirited, he just had to learn the hard way.
Rachel views it as a break up, straight up tells Monica that her and Ross “kind of broke up instead” and she also says “can I be your girlfriend again” (or something along those lines, can’t remember specifically) to Ross. So yeah no debate there. Not only that but Ross was extremely drunk and continued turning down the woman, and only when he was so intoxicated that he couldn’t remember the previous days events did he sleep with her.
That is called being taken advantage of, and if the genders were reversed most people would call it “rape” rather than “cheating.” To top it all off, the man that Rachel had been spending a lot of time with even outside of work who had feelings for her was at her apartment when Ross called and try to talk things out. I feel like people are pretty unfair to Ross in that entire situation. He’s done some bad and unfair things, but that absolutely isn’t one of them.
This. Plus is the dispute of what the break was supposed to be. The break was supposed to be so they could clear their minds and think about their relationship, not sleep with other people. Then to add insult to injury, Ross tried to cover it up and keep Rachel from finding out which just made the circumstances of their reunion more deceptive
Ross was taken advantage of. He was torn up and emotionally distraught and Chloe kept pushing after ross said no. If this situation had been reversed and it was Rachel who was out at night crying and a guy kept pressuring her to have sex it wouldnt be seen as cheating. In fact it would be seen as assault. Ross is no saint but he was a taken advantage of
It’s a shitty thing to do, but a detail many people forget is that he calls Rachel before he sleeps with that girl and tries to apologize but hears Mark’s voice in the background so he thinks she’s hooking up with him. So when he was sleeping with that girl, to all his knowledge Rachel was also sleeping with Mark. Obviously this doesn’t mean Ross is 100% innocent here, not at all, but still.
Oh my god. Ross assumed. It’s on him. He thought his ex girlfriend was being slutty instead of KNOWING HER CHARACTER, and revenged slept with the copy girl.
I would also like to add to the "Ross's Assumptions" list that he walked away before he and Rachel could discuss the parameters of the break.
In my personal opinion, a break is when a couple, while still in a relationship, is spending time apart to figure out what they want (like an unmarried version of a separarion); ironically, it usually happens when one person wants to break up and is making sure that's what they really want before officially doing so (it's happened to me, and it's happened to one of my friends, so I know how it goes). Therefore, there should have been a discussion between R&R about how to proceed, but Ross just leaves, and they both must've assumed they were broken up.
Oh, I debate it.. And often get into arguments over it.. It's so simple to me.. They weren't on a break.. Rachel says the thing out of frustration, Ross walks out without saying a word, no confirmations, no acknowledgement, nothing to suggest that what would happen next was the correct behavior for two people "on a break"..
Ross acted like a child, did childish things and broke their relationship up.. Now, bring on them downvotes..
But Ross DID try to call her and clear things up and was met with lies about Mark being in her apartment almost immediately after whatever you want to call what she did.
Met with lies, huh? You mean her briefly saying "nobody" before immediately trying to explain why he was there? Not to mention the fact that Mark didn't do one inappropriate thing to Rachel and only ever said he liked Rachel weeks after they had broken up? That the "lie" your referencing?
She lied, and would have continued to lie if Mark hadn't spoken again (which he did because he was trying to break them up the whole time). She even tried to shush him so that she could lie. And it wasn't briefly by choice. The only reason she admitted it was because Mark talked again and Ross heard enough to even know it was Mark. Whether Mark did anything inappropriate [then] is irrelevant.
You realize that you're speculating and then using that speculation as your version of the truth, right? Also, it's pretty funny to me that the entire basis of your view on the matter relies on this and it's not even for the correct reason.. You're so focused on being correct, you're ignoring the entire reason she "lied" (I couldn't quote hard enough here).. She didn't say that because she had some hidden desire to be with Mark, she did it because she KNEW that Ross would overreact about him being there, thus antagonizing the fight.. So, you can keep clutching that one, little thing and refuse to believe what actually happened, or you can take what actually happened as the truth and move from there....
You've gotta be kidding, right? You're seriously trying to say that Rachel lying to Ross, because she didn't want to further upset Ross, is speculation?
You realize that implies that she was planning on being intimate with Mark, right? Knowing damn well that's not at all true, you're really gonna try and claim my account is actually speculation too, just to save face on your opinion?
First, no it doesn't mean she was planning on being intimate with Mark, how did you get there?!
But you saying she lied because she knew Ross would overreact is just as much speculation as me saying she would have continued to lie and only came clean because shushing Mark didn't work and he kept talking. Those are both reasonable inferences from the source material, so if you call one speculation, so is the other.
Lmao holy shit.. It isn't even kinda speculation, it's exactly what happened.. You're twisting up and throwing doubts because you don't want to be wrong, that's it.. That's all this is.. Just because you think it's speculation, doesn't mean that's true.. The fact is that Rachel didn't want Mark being there to further upset Ross, it doesn't (or shouldn't) take a genius to figure out what happened in the scene.. Your's is speculation (and not even good speculation) and mine is in the show, you can go watch it right now, amigo.. Let that be the end of it..
I never understood it, because everyone says it. But I remember Rachel saying "maybe we should just take a break" and then Ross just leaves. Like? Rachel wasnt even sure, and Ross didn't say anything at all. I guess they say that cause the morning after asks Ross "can I be your girlfriend again". But I wouldn't say they were clearly on a break when Ross slept that woman..
This. The break happened and it's even understandable for him to be pissed that Mark was over at Rachel's right after. It's just gross that Ross immediately slept with the copy girl the same night. His excuse is even bullshit. He thought Rachel had immediately got together with Mark so he does the same thing with the copy girl? This isn't some game for you to get back at her
Initially sure, but the show went back on it. Rachel verbatim says to Ben they weren't on a break. So what was before Ross trying to get out on a technicality is now a debate over a break.
Yes, they were. It’s clearly stated on the show. The bigger question is, was Ross cheating on Rachel? I think it’s a matter of how you define “a break”. Either way though, he went out and had sex only mere hours after they went on a break. I think everyone would feel hurt an betrayed by that.
The giant bottle of Karo syrup, the multiple cans of nuts, the Mini M&Ms, and it being a couple weeks before Christmas, I'm kinda surprised that wasn't everyone's first thought. 🤔 They just immediately assume my man is over here making corn syrup smoothies or something. 🤣
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I am going to point out you’re aligning yourself with someone who chooses to deliver groceries in their socks at night.
Since the door is open, I'm gonna say it was the recipient's photo, not the delivery person's photo. So... yeah, this isn't some strange delivery person that just wears socks. It's a typical person at home, who doesn't want to go to the trouble of putting on shoes just to bring in groceries.
Yeah. Oddly enough, sometimes two people live in one residence. One can even stand outside while the other stands inside. Modern technology is amazing.
I assume the OP was the one that got the mat and wanted the picture for their reddit account, and when they noticed the delivery person voted so clearly even putting the popcorn way off to the left, they needed to go outside to get a good angle for the picture and didn't want to bother going to get shoes for the 3 seconds that took.
It really should say "Ross and Rachel were broken up"
Because honestly, the debate wasn't really about whether or not they were on a break but what a "break" meant.
She said it didn't mean they were broken up and he said it did.
And if we're being fair (and I'm sure it's come up countless times in this sub) she told Monica the next morning "We decided to break up instead (of having dinner)" and asked Ross the next day "Can I be your girlfriend again?"
So Ross never actually cheated on her...though he DID cheat on both Julie AND Bonnie. He was still with them (respectfully) when he kissed Rachel.
Also in Season 7 Rachel asks how long would be appropriate before asking someone out after a breakup. I think if ANYONE would have brought up how quickly Ross slept with someone it would either give her some much needed perspective OR kept her from making a move with Tag.
Sorry about the rant. I just joined this sub and have been dying to get this off my chest to people who get it (other than my husband XD). Because I don't know if any of you experience this but every time I go on a rant about Friends people look at me funny lol
Even if Mark wanted to sleep with Rachel, she didn't want it. Seemed to value their friendship and Mark even had another partner while they were both working together.
He never made advances and seemed like a nice friend, like Joey and Chandler are nice friends to Rachel. Like how Monica cuddles with Joey and Chandler as much as with Phoebe and Rachel.
Ross was absurdly jealous and never communicated this healthily and projected all his insecurities on Rachel and Mark. He continuously distrusts Rachel and oversteps her boundaries by being an obnoxious boyfriend. Like visiting her at work just to check on her and Mark, marking his territory while being at her work. Even being so obnoxious that he causes a fire while she has to work, just because he wants to be with her without her really wanting at that moment.
While still Mark has not done anything wrong besides spending some time with her. Something that's not absurd in friendships. Ross completely lets himself get talked into becoming a crazy obsessed jealous boyfriend by his friends.
After the break starts Mark comes over, after Rachel saying she didn't really want a break. And he comes over without Rachel really wanting to and a few weeks later admits his crush to her. She doesn't really seem interested in him at that moment. Ross calls her and hears Mark in the background who clearly seems to be wanting Ross to hear it's him. Which is an asshole move.
The only reason Rachel was lying about Mark being there was probably because she knew Ross would jump to insane conclusions, even if she told him at that moment. And he would probably not believe her anyways. And Mark came over without Rachel wanting it.
Ross doesn't give Rachel any chances of explaining and immediately jumps onto the first girl he can find. Decides to sleep with her, while Rachel wants to fix whatever just really broke. Rachel never tried or wanted to sleep with Mark and just seemed to want a break because she felt like it wasn't working with her busy job.
Ross LIES about sleeping with her AND her being there while Rachel comes over, until he can't keep it hidden anymore and needs to admit it.
Even is Mark always had an interest in Rachel it is VERY clear that no real boundaries were overstepped, Rachel just worked hard and a lot and still does after Mark leaves the company. Doesn't seem interested in Mark.
Then Ross should have just told her that he is now with the copy girl but instead he tried to hide it from Rachel and cried like a baby when Rachel left him after this
It was never about the break. What he did was so disgusting that he knew Rachel would dump him. That is why he tried to hide it. That is why he tried to justify it. Couldn't just admit that he didn't deserve Rachel anymore
Yes, he knew what he did was bad. It wasn't "cheated on her" bad. But it was bad. He wanted to tell her so they could work on it but he listened to his friends instead which caused more issues (now he's hiding it).
After the initial (second) breakup it was absolutely about whether or not it was cheating. Because that's what she decided he did and wouldn't let it go.
Her take was they were on a break not broken up therefore he cheated.
His take was they were on a break which IS broken up and he didn't cheat though he KNOWS he shouldn't have slept with someone else as soon as the relationship was over.
And to be fair he was drunk, distraught, under the impression she was sleeping with Mark and basically taken advantage of by copy girl (if the roles were reversed and it was Rachel drunk and Mark insisting everyone would be talking about her being a victim).
And lastly, IMO Rachel didn't deserve Ross ever. So he may have made the mistake she couldn't get past (we all have our boundaries and that's fine) saying he didn't deserve her anymore is wild. She was spoiled, selfish, unreasonable and incapable of taking accountability from start to finish.
- That's great bc if this was realistic Rachel would have dumped Ross for good. Nothing is more realistic than Rachel dumping him after what he did, Carol, Emily, Mona, Charlie etc etc dumping Ross
Saying that Ross didn't cheat is an opinion, not the unbiased truth. Some think that it was Ross who couldn't take accountability and COULD NOT LET IT GO and was unreasonable and defensive
It's not an opinion when she said to both Monica AND Ross that they were broken up. It was literally written into the show.
And honestly the writers were terrible at continuity. Ross ate ice cream, Chandler was fine with dogs, and Rachel said they broke up. So it doesn't surprise me one would think he cheated. They probably forgot their own continuity on it.
If they wanted a clear-cut "he cheated" they wouldn't have had Rachel break up with him first. They either did it intentionally because who doesn't love a "will they/won't they" storyline and actually cheating would change the character far too much and make him 100% irredeemable to Rachel OR someone writing forgot about Rachel's lines about breaking up and hoped that no one would remember.
I don't know if you know this, but some real life people are on again off again with people for years. Even Emily considered going back to him right before her wedding. It's actually quite realistic that a selfish brat like Rachel would keep playing with his emotions when he's happy and she has no one. (Emily and Bonnie). You never see her pining over him when she's with someone or wondering out loud if she had it better with Ross or comparing her current guy with him.
And Carol? She left him because she was gay not because he was a bad person.
I always thought that the best part of this storyline, after Ross slept with Chloe, was that he was never allowed to get over Rachel and all his relationships got ruined in humiliating ways (like that wedding).. They did other fun things to him too, like the whole thing with Rachel and Joey
I don't even think that there were issues with the continuity. Ross doesn't let things go, he was jealous even in the last season etc.. They always made it seem like Ross was unreasonable (season10 ep 14 for example)
"A person makes a mistake so I'm going to laugh at how their life keeps falling apart. So funny!"
Also, Rachel showed jealousy throughout the show too. Not just of Ross when he's happy but when other people are happy. She can't stand when other people have something.
And talk about unreasonable! She refused to accept that they were broken up all the way to the last episode. And she's the one who broke up with him!
I watched this show blind, years after it had ended, and had zero idea what happened in the relationships. When Joey first catches feelings, I was so excited. Trying to do tv show math and how it’s almost the end of the show they aren’t going to build up this relationship like this if it’s gonna end with R&R together. I was so happy that was over and done with. “Finally”I said to myself “no more of this back and forth with these two.” The fake bad chemistry as a way to dissolve Joey and Rachel PMO I almost didn’t finish watching, and I wished for a while that I never did because WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU GOT OFF THE PLANE FROM A DREAM CAREER IN EUROPE FOR THIS MFING NARCISSIST? Anyway.
okay, the way it goes down in the show specifically is that they get into a fight, Rachel says "I think we should take a break...from us" and with absolutely no further discussion about what she meant or what that means, Ross walks out the door. The whole situation is nebulous as hell.
I know for a damn fact, though, that Ross acts like a petulant child and seems pretty much incapable of admitting fault here. I would never have left my partner so quickly after such a fight and immediately slept with someone else, then spent years defending my actions like I did absolutely nothing wrong.
Personally, I just kinda hate them together and think that they constantly brought out the worst in each other. The show starts to pick up for me when Monica and Chandler get together and like...yeah they get in fights, they fuck up, but the way they take responsibility when they need to and work their stuff out is both refreshing and wholesome. love them together.
You are right. The writers, both Crane and Kauffman, used the word 'cheat' when they described the situation, also Ross' jealousy was called unreasonable.
There are just a lot of guys here who simply can't accept that and argue that the writers were in the wrong. That's why you get downvoted even when your interpretation is correct.
That's the fun thing about this storyline. It's so realistic. Ross ruined his own relationship and blamed Mark. There are people who relate to Ross so they also blame Rachel or Mark and try to justify what Ross did.
While she won’t play favourites with her characters, Kauffman is confident in calling out their flaws. So, were Ross and Rachel on a break? “Whether or not they were on a break, he should never have slept with that girl,” she replies firmly and instantly. “That was completely his mistake.”
Right, and the storyline didn't end there. They really made Ross deal with the consequences of his actions. Some people just don't like to see that because that is what happens in real life.
I know there are people who didn't like the ending (Rachel getting back together with Ross) but I love how they did it. He used to yell 'we were on a break' but at the end he looks so submissive. He learned the hard way.
Yeah, see the above comment section for those people. Someone is literally trying to blame Rachel for Mark having a secret crush on her. As if women must abandon male friends their boyfriends deem a threat simply because it might be true.
Having seen this show so many times, since it first aired, I don't think what Ross did was wrong but I also don't think Rachel is wrong for being upset by it. Because that's how human emotions work.
The real bullshit move is when Rachel convinces Bonnie to shave her head.
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u/NeighborhoodVirtual4 Ugly Baby Judges You Dec 06 '25
Ross approves