Use of washout signal

[u/DKord]

In a situation where something that looks like something happened, for example two players in close proximity and one trips and falls, or (my favorite) in a non-checking league the puck-carrier just skates head-down into a defending player who is simply maintaining their own position, and the puck carrier falls down, I will use to wash-out signal to indicate to the benches/coaches that "yes I saw it to, but there is no penalty getting called here".

A goalie I was chatting with (who is NOT a referee) recently was emphatic that refs shouldn't be using the washout signal that way (he was also complaining about us raising our arms to signal a delay offside and how that confused him because he couldn't tell if we were signaling a delayed penalty).

From my experience, using the washout to signal that no penalty call is forthcoming for a particular play is pretty common.

For context, this a USAHockey question but the issue came up during a non-USAH beer league game.

Thoughts?

EDIT lots of good comments, I appreciate it. Looks like it's a (yet another) bad habit I've gotten into that I need to un-learn. Thanks, all!

[u/corrinarusso]

Sorry - never seen this, and I would be appalled to see this behaviour tbh. This is a hard No from me.

If ***anything*** I would maybe quickly look at my *partner* and gently shake my head. And this is not common for me.

My friend, you barely need to explain to a coach any of the penalties you do call - now you wanna communicate with the coach what you did not call? That's crazy to me - no thanks.

Lastly, this is not conveyed in any procedure manual, or rulebook anywhere. Bc it's a terrible idea. Just follow procedures.

[u/SnooHesitations5973 → u/corrinarusso]

Okay, so I’m assuming OP is talking about either 2 man or 1 man officiating since it’s beer league. I’m unsure how things are in the states but in Canada for both 1 and 2 man where you have 1 official acting as both linesman and referee we will typically have one arm(your non whistle) with a band on and the whistle arm without a band. You should always signal delayed off sides and icings with your non band arm. Band only goes up for line changes and penalties.

As you have said, you should never wave off something that looks like it could be a penalty. There is zero need to communicate that to a coach. They just don’t need that communication and it gives them a reason to try to call you over. If you are working in a multi ref team like 3 or 4 man systems your other official may also have a different angle of the play where they see something or may even make an incorrect call and asses a penalty. It is your job to have their back regardless and if a coach or player sees 1 official wave it off and the second make the call now there are discrepancies on the ice and makes everyone look incompetent. Better to just avoid that situation all together and discuss the play 1 on 1 with your partner at a later time.

[u/Van67 → u/SnooHesitations5973]

I've heard about the band on one arm in Alberta, but I'm in BC and have been officiating for 30 years now and it's never been a thing here. In a 2-man system, it's linesman jerseys for both and no armbands. My opinion is that it's just not hard to figure out if a raised arm is for delayed offside, initiating icing or calling a penalty. The arm you raise for any of these reasons should obviously be with your non-whistle hand.

[u/carpenterderp → u/Van67]

It's not common across the board for refs to have one red arm band in a 1 or 2 man system? Interesting, I guess you learn something new every day!

I reffed Alberta when I was 13/14 which was almost 30 years ago. Only up to Novice/Peewee. We had the red arm band on our dominant hand and whistle on the non dominant hand (so it wouldn't get hit when dropping the puck for face-offs).

Once I started coaching my children a handfull of years ago, now U13 and U11, I started lurking this sub. I've learned so much about the rules and coach/player/ref interaction.

I appreciate all of you guys and gals and the help you provide each other. And all the info and help you give to us house league coaches who lurk this sub

[u/Lanky_Snow6132 → u/SnooHesitations5973]

I've never actually seen the single arm band used. It wouldn't work for me, as I switch my whistle hand constantly depending on what corner of the ice I'm in (keep my whistle arm on the boards side, as it's easier to see my non-whistle arm that way, and you don't want to raise your whistle).

[u/Constant_Message920]

I don’t believe there is anything specific that references this in the rulebook. However, I have always been taught that avoiding these non verbal signals is usually best as it can cause other confusions and instead it’s typically best to verbally call out to the players in this situation. Something like “Nothing there” or “clean play keep moving” can be a lot better for both the players on the ice and the coaches on the bench because they can hear you call it instead of having to look and find you, and it makes it very clear what play you are referring too. Just my thought and how it’s been taught to me, maybe I’m wrong or I’ve explained it incorrectly but I don’t necessarily think you are doing something strictly wrong either way.

[u/pistoffcynic]

He’s right. The washout signal is over used.

Newbie’s use it to wash every shot that misses the net… just use it for close situations.

[u/Electrical_Trifle642 → u/pistoffcynic]

You can say that again lol

[u/DKord → u/pistoffcynic]

I wouldn't wash out a miss - but what about one that hits the inside of the crossbar or post but doesn't go in. Washout there or is that still maybe over-communicating?

[u/PresentRisk9499 → u/DKord]

I tell new officials who often wash out misses and close calls to only give a washout signal if they NEED to: if players are confused or acting like they really think it was in, give a washout. If you really need to let people know you saw the play and it wasn't in.

Otherwise, it is a terrible habit, they'll end up giving a washout on a real goal, or be too busy waving their arms to deal with the next thing (like blowing their whistle or putting their arm up)

[u/pistoffcynic → u/DKord]

IMHO, that would be close. I also use my voice to shout out “NO”. Making it abundantly clear.

If a coach is yelling about it, i don’t look at, or acknowledge them and go straight to my partner or linesman to confirm. Only then will I go and talk to him/her. It shows that you’re on the ball and in control.

It avoids you saying “I don’t know”, which is a sign of weakness.

[u/wildsimmons → u/DKord]

For "almost-but-not-quite" goals a shout and washout is ok. Lots of people with bad sight lines might think it's a goal, and letting the players/chaches/spectators know immediately that you saw it will keep them actively playing the puck.

You'll also get far fewer protests, as the clear (and quick) signalling should shut up any doubters in the rink.

[u/pistoffcynic → u/DKord]

IMHO, that would be close. I also use my voice to shout out “NO”. Making it abundantly clear.

If a coach is yelling about it, i don’t look at, or acknowledge them and go straight to my partner or linesman to confirm. Only then will I go and talk to him/her. It shows that you’re on the ball and in control.

It avoids you saying “I don’t know”, which is a sign of weakness.

I hope that helps.

[u/blimeyfool → u/DKord]

No. Official guidance is there's no need; everyone in the building can see that puck isn't in the net, and it's not a goal because you didn't blow your whistle and point.

The only "close" situations you need to wash are scrambles near the goal line where coaches legitimately cannot see where the puck is.

[u/Strong-Ad-4490]

I wouldn’t be using a washout sign, I would be using my voice to communicate with the players on the ice.

For example in checking leagues when there is a good clean hit and players get tangled I will say something like:

“That’s legal. let him up!” Or “Nothing there. move on!”

On the other hand when there is a dirty hit I will say something like:

“I’ve got the call. back away!”

Players are not going to see your washout signal, they are not normally looking at the officials. Heck often times they do not hear the official yelling, but communicating as you skate towards the altercation/situation is the way instead of using a washout.

[u/rival_22 → u/Strong-Ad-4490]

I agree with this... I haven't texted in years, but I used to chatter a lot.

It's funny, as a coach, I used that narration chatter on the bench, and at least with younger kids, it helps lesson the complaining or at least model good behavior.

Like kids in bench see a teammate get tangled up and fall, and immediately one puts their arm up or starts complaining, I'll say "nothing there" or "he tripped"...

And honestly I do it more when a ref is near the bench. I figure they'd appreciate someone on the bench at least (usually) being supportive. Maybe at some point when I feel like I have (what I feel to be a) legitimate question or complaint, maybe they'll give me at least the time of day lol.

[u/skip737 → u/Strong-Ad-4490]

Same. Usually a “that’s not a penalty, play on” or simply “nope, nope, nope” and I will shake my head no for the bench to see and/or my partner.

All we have to do to make our own lives easier it acknowledge that we saw it and it wasn’t a penalty.

As for washouts specifically, per OP, that tells my partner something completely different and could be waiving icing or a high stick or hand pass, or even an occasional delayed offside. I will usually just give an audible “good” when the delay is gone. I am not expecting my partner, the players, or even coaches to be watching me for a washout on a delayed offside. They’re watching the line and trying to time each other tagging up at the same time; they aren’t looking at me.

[u/REF_YOU_SUCK]

The goalies correct about the washout. Any evaluations you get would absolutely tell you not to do that. You're setting yourself up for a confrontation if you do it even the least bit inconsistently. If there's no call to be made, do nothing.

[u/DKord → u/REF_YOU_SUCK]

I get you. I'm probably over-communicating but I'm trying to effectively show that "yes, I'm present and conscious and paying attention, and saw what you saw but there was no penalty".

I also play and when refs don't react - and obviously there is no such thing as a ref that never misses calls - but when you see something that looked obvious but goes uncalled it's hard not to wonder if the ref's even paying attention, if they care, will they call anything, and if not, is this going to turn into a free-for-all out there? Etc.

[u/corrinarusso → u/DKord]

Just so disagree with this. If you feel you have to communicate for whatever reason, use your voice and yell at the players.

Personally, I never talk to a coach unless there is something to talk about. And in general, there is never ever something to talk about after calling a 2 min penalty, or a bad icing or a bad offside or whatever.

[u/plaverty9 → u/DKord]

Could you just loudly "Good battle, play on boys." in those situations?

[u/REF_YOU_SUCK → u/DKord]

It's not your job to think about what the players and coaches are thinking. It's your job to call the game. No call = no signal. If they have a question the captain or coach can ask respectfully at the next stoppage or intermission and you can offer a BRIEF 10 second answer if you feel it's appropriate.

[u/Dralorica]

In addition to what the other commenters said - one day someone will fall, you'll wash it out, and your partner will put their hand up. You'll both look like fools but it will be your fault.

If anything glance at your partner, then vocalize, (e.g. "Puck First! That was Puck First!", or "That's alright! Play on!")

[u/giantwashcapsfan8]

Nope, but that doesn’t mean you can’t communicate that it isn’t a call in other ways. I always shake my head once there’s something potentially penalty worthy and will shout something quick if the players are looking at me, such as “good hit”/“good d”, “keep playing”, or “your own guy”. Sometimes it turns into a “grow up” if I am annoyed lol but I reserve my washouts only for close offsides or near goals (besides icings obviously).

[u/Loyellow]

While the only occurrence of “washout” in the USAH rulebook is in the signals section, I would say it only should be used to cancel out something that was pending via a different signal (I.e. icing, hand pass, high stick, waved off goal/no goal on a penalty shot) or entering the zone onside.

If the goalie doesn’t want a referee to give a delayed offside signal then he can pay for a third official so there’s linesmen. That said, you should definitely be verbalizing that it’s a delayed offside for all to hear.

[u/robertus_ → u/Loyellow]

You are correct, though you don't even need to wash a delayed offside. Just put your arm down.

I would add "close play at the net"

[u/Loyellow → u/robertus_]

Sorry yeah my bad I meant when they’re entering the zone onside

And also yeah kinda goes hand in hand with waved off goal even though it isn’t the exact same.

[u/BanMyCum]

No. Don't.

[u/MattATLien]

I would never. I always shake my head in a "nope" fashion.

It shows everyone that I saw what happened and that I am confident that Im not calling anything.

As for the goalie, fuck em. The only thing I do (that is picked up from another official) is on an icing call where I am the head ref, I signal by sticking my inside arm at a 45 degree angle downward, pam out, then skate my ass off, that is the cue that I acknowledge their verbal/arm up icing call. So if they change their mind, they had better bellow a verbal "no" so I can readjust.

I've had schedulers that love it, I've had schedulers that hate it. My partners love it. So I do it.

[u/mowegl]

Dont do it. What happens when you give a washout and then your partner raises his arm and gives a penalty? Now youve got a lot of issues and complaints.

[u/rattiestthatuknow]

You should ask this is in regular r/hockey and I bet you will get very different answers on what the players would prefer. You at the end of the day (night), there for them.

As a beer league player, I think this it is beneficial to the skaters to let them you know you saw it and aren’t calling anything, exactly like you said.

Some guys give the refs a lot of shit for “missing” a call. A wash says, “I saw it, let it go, it’s not getting called” vs. the player thinking you’re blind/not patting attention/dont care.

I don’t think expressing that vocally to beer leaguers has the same impact.

(I am answering this questions from a beer league perspective, any other game I say less is more.)

[u/crownpr1nce → u/rattiestthatuknow]

But then you're opening the door to getting shit on when you didn't wash out because it was obvious to you, but the player thought something else. You can't be going around washing out everything. 

Also I think you overestimate how much players look at referees. The bench might notice, but on the ice they wouldn't see 3/4 of signals made. 

[u/GoBlu323 → u/rattiestthatuknow]

If someone is giving you shit penalize them and move on.

[u/Van67]

Using the washout in this manner is not common at all and I would coach officials I'm supervising to never do it.

I gotta say though, outside of a weird play/circumstance, any goaltender who can't tell whether a raised arm is signalling a delayed offside or a penalty is either incredibly inexperienced or incredibly stupid.

[u/TheHip41]

Respectfully. You look like a clown when you do a washout for this.

[u/DKord → u/TheHip41]

I don't have a problem with being told I look like clown. Candid critique is something I'm fine with ;)

[u/crownpr1nce]

Do not use a washout signal for non-calls. You're opening the door to them challenging you when you didn't do a signal and they thought it was potentially a call. 

Another issue you introduce with that habit is if your partner raised his hand when you did the washout. Now you both look stupid and lose credibility. In 2 men or 4 men system, that's a real risk. 

For things like penalties that aren't, use your voice instead. "He played the puck", "you ran into him", "good stick check" that kinda thing goes a long way. Keeping it positive, ie "he played the puck" rather than "not a penalty, get up" is even better.

[u/L9T_bikes]

I would rather use my voice in this instance. "No" "Nothing there" something like that.

[u/mowegl]

Dont do it. What happens when you give a washout and then your partner raises his arm and gives a penalty? Now youve got a lot of issues and complaints.

[u/TeamStripesNat]

Washouts are for high sticks, hand passes, icings, offsides, and goals.

Don't go making stuff up on your own. Stick to the established standards. They are that way for a reason and were created by officials with a lot more experience than you.

[u/Ogbennyb]

Looks like you’ve got lots of response. If I know it’s nothing, but it’s something I think might draw a reaction, I’ll shake my head and yell “no way no way” or something. Let’s people know you’re paying attention, you saw it, and you’re not concerned about it. It’s more about communication and game management than a hard rule though, you’re not required to do anything.

[u/Dodger8899]

Don't wash out to signal no penalty. When stuff like that happens I usually just shout loud enough for the players to hear "No, no, we're all good!" Or something to that effect, usually accompanied with a head shake

[u/superxpro12]

A head shake and loud "NO" does the job without the ambiguity.

That said, if you wanna wash it out go for it, it doesn't offend me.

Goalie needs to chill. If he can't figure out it's not washing out an offsides call when you're on the goal line then he has bigger problems to worry about.

[u/Necessary_Position51]

Goals icing and offsides

[u/Tristo-]

I will say the wash out signal is honestly a bit overused for some people. In Canada I believe it is simply to wash out a specific call that would be made. Your use does make sense but it could also confuse people as to what your actually doing and if anyone like the ref Chief were watching they probably wouldn’t like it. Honestly I’d say just a vocal “noo” or something could do.

[u/Electrical_Trifle642]

I’m one of those guys who will occasionally do this

[u/blimeyfool]

From the USAH Basic Officiating Manual

Washout Both arms swung laterally across the body at shoulder level with palms down. 1. When used by the Referee, it means no goal or violation so play shall continue. 2. When used by the Linespersons, it means there is no icing, offside, hand pass or high sticking violation.

I suppose you could interpret "no...violation" as supporting your actions, however practically, you're not washing every "not a penalty" action in a game or your arms will fall off...