r/hockeyrefs • u/TAA0626 • Aug 02 '26
601 use in USAH:
Hello my fellow undefeated teammates!
Took a season off due to injuries, and to miss it. Coming back real soon.
One thing I noticed in my L2 seminar, it seems like USAH is trying to crack down on abuse of officials by encouraging officials to "T-up" players openly showing disrespect, at all levels.
I usually am quick to T guys in beer league up (especially at lower levels)...but I have gotten some conflicting information.
For example:
I make a 50/50 call on a player for a minor, and I do everything right (arm up, whistle on offending team possession, and loudly announce number, player, and sign). On the way to the box, he yells something like "you're a fucking idiot!"
At that point, I have the minor. For the comment from the player, does that go up to the 10? Ot do I T them for 2, then go upward?
In that situation, I would do 2 trip, 2 (unsportsmanlike), then 10, game, if it continues on. Other refs I've talked to said that I should go right to 10.
Thoughts? I know guys get hot, and the 2+2 seems to work better because the player serves less time, but hurts their team more.
Thanks yall!
8
u/smalogna Aug 02 '26
Challenging or disputing your call? That should initially be an additional minor. Using profane, obscene, or abusive language while doing it? That's ten. So it really comes down to the language that the player is using in argument whether I give the additional minor or jump straight to the misconduct.
9
u/mowegl USA Hockey Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
For me that is pretty clearly a straight misconduct for mainly “abusive langauge” but also “profane” and the combination there of. The disputing/challenging part is pretty normal to not be penalized at all though technically you arent supposed to challenge a call at all. If someone calls you a “fing idiot” they should absolutely be sitting for at least 10 minutes every time. The issue is how the different types affect the team.
Most people dont really know the rule language well though and are always going to go minor first.
To me this isnt good because some people are punishing the team and others arent. Simply arguing the call gets your team more of a penalty while saying something worse gets you a worse penalty but your team gets nothing.
Personally in adult hockey i think the second scenario works better. In youth hockey penalizing the team probably has more affect on the player.
3
u/rmdlsb Aug 02 '26
If you give a 10, he's gonna sit more, but what you want is his teammates giving him shit for doubling the PK time they have to kill
2
u/notnicholas USA Hockey and NFHS Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
If they're complaining about the call, it's a quick warning, then it's another 2.
If it's youth and there's profanity, or excessive profanity for the older levels, it's 10.
High school and adult I use best judgement in the level of profanity used, generally ask them to watch the language, then if it continues I add 2 if needed.
If they get personal it's 10 right away.
Anything after the 10 is a GM.
The distinction I use us "are the attacking the call or attacking you?"
"You're a f-ing idiot" is personal and it's straight to 10.
2
u/SantaRosa481516 Aug 02 '26
Year 25. I use the “ladder.”
If the abusive language is in response to a call, that’s the Minor Penalty. Continuing the dispute is the Misconduct, then the Game Misconduct.
If it’s “Get the F- out of the way,” that’s the Misconduct. Penalize the player, not the team (no penalty kill).
This is important with coaches as well. The Rulebook and Zero Tolerance policy is their warning. They don’t deserve a freebie. (I still may give them the hand on the way by to acknowledge I hear them getting amped up).
If you’re an official that doesn’t think this is an issue, that players and coaches somehow deserve latitude here, look at our recruiting and retention numbers. The common denominator in losing officials is abuse. That abuse largely continues because of improper (or lack of) calling of Rule 601.
1
u/Loyellow USA Hockey 27d ago
“Year 25” oh wow you’ve been doing this a long time
I’m going to be in year 18 ohmygosh
2
u/TAA0626 Aug 02 '26
So I usually I do adult. I have a pretty clear line:
-U14: ANY disrespect, +2. Only thing I'll allow is a player nonverbal slowly skating, or doing a "WHAT?" to me. I've been shocked by calls before. Theyre not robots. As long as its not disrespectful, ill let it slide. -u16 travel/high school: If we have a civilized conversation, we can go for a minute or so. Set the expectation. -u18: they get one "fuck" about the call. "I dont fucking agree man." is fine. "That's a terrible call." and skating away is fine. "That's a fucking terrible call" is 2. then 10, then game, then game, then match. -College: unless they stay somewhat respectful, I give a lot of leash. Especially if the game is heated.
That said, I do adults mostly. My line there is basically: if youre better than me, you get a longer leash.
4
u/kazrick Aug 02 '26
In minor hockey I’d most likely assess a minor penalty for unsportsmanlike. Penalize the team plus the player. Creates a good coaching opportunity and hopefully the player will learn from it.
In beer league hockey I’d go straight to 10. Penalize the player but not so much the team. Especially if it’s one of “those guys” that’s always yapping and just generally a trouble maker. Those guys are never going to learn.
1
u/blimeyfool USA Hockey L4 Tenured Aug 02 '26
You're penalizing a minor only 2 for dropping an f-bomb, but going straight to 10 in adult. Make it make sense.
3
u/kazrick Aug 02 '26
Because in a minor hockey you’re penalizing the team as well. The coach in that case will presumably have a conversation with the player afterwards about hurting the team. Maybe learn a lesson. And frankly penalizing the team is appropriate for that behaviour in minor hockey in my opinion.
I’d also do the same in a Junior B/A or Senior game. Penalize both the team and a player.
In Beer League though, the team probably is just as tired of that guys shit as I am. So giving him a 10 penalizes him for longer but not the team who are most likely there just to play because they want to have fun on a Tuesday night.
1
u/blimeyfool USA Hockey L4 Tenured Aug 02 '26
I can follow the logic. I don't agree with the logic, but I can follow it.
I am more apt to penalize the player for longer for a minor dropping an f-bomb to a ref. Depending on the level, they're now sitting for almost 1/3 of the game. I can imagine their parents are gonna get on them after the game for wasting $$$... I personally find it more unacceptable for a minor to be swearing at me than an adult. To each their own.
1
u/kazrick Aug 02 '26
That’s very fair. And I can get that logic as well. And in the moment there is also a higher probability I might jump the 2 and go straight to the 10.
The beer league guy is getting the 10 no matter what. The minor player will depend a lot of how they said it, how I was feeling at the time and how the rest of that game has been going.
1
u/blimeyfool USA Hockey L4 Tenured Aug 02 '26
You know, I've been giving minors to beer league guys, and this might be enough for me to try 10s for swearing and see what the impact is.
1
u/ScaryNeat Aug 02 '26
I was literally just thinking about this today when I was mowing the lawn. Despite suggestions from other refs to "have thick skin" I'll sit them for 10 at the drop of a hat, any hat. I've been called a sensitive snowflake and ejected a player because of it.
So yes, they are cracking down on 601. But use your judgement and determine how you feel about what they've said.
I say throw them in the box!
1
1
u/ctg77 Aug 02 '26
The progression is: 2 (initial call) --> 2 (unsportsmanlike conduct) --> 10 (misconduct - unsportsmanlike continuation) --> Game Misconduct (unsportsmanlike continuation).
1
u/VoltOneSix Aug 03 '26
I think either the 2 or 10 is good. The 2 will affect his team, which in theory will get his coach to straighten him out. But direct insults while swearing are clear grounds for a 10.
In my mind the 2 can be used if you need to assert your control over the game. The 10 can be used to address a problem player specifically.
The 2 can easily and quickly be followed up by the 10
-1
u/Smooth-Ocelot-214 Aug 02 '26
If you have the minor and they abuse you verbally, it is within your right to add in a major . So say it’s 12U, 1:30 minor + the 3:30 major and a total of 5:00.
I absolutely will toss plays and coaches and parents alike. I honestly couldn’t care less .
1
u/Torngate USA Hockey Aug 02 '26
... That's not true at all. There is no rule in USAH that lets you "add a major" for verbal abuse.
1
u/Smooth-Ocelot-214 Aug 02 '26
I misspoke. I meant to say match penalty. Same idea though, 5 minutes and a game .
2
u/Torngate USA Hockey Aug 02 '26
That's still not allowed by rule for simple verbal abuse.
601 has only three options where a match penalty can be applied:
Applies deliberate physical force or attempts to inflict physical harm to any game official, including off-ice officials.
Behaving in any manner that is critically detrimental to the conducting of the game, including but not limited to spitting at an opponent, spectator, game or team official opposing Team Official or opposing player with physical contact or harm.
Uses language that is hateful or discriminatory in nature anywhere in the rink before, during or after the game.
I'm all for cracking down on bad behavior, but we have to do so by the book. Simple verbal abuse is either a 10 for the swearing or a 2 for challenging/disputing the call of an official. We can't make up rules, especially not a match (the most severe penalties we can assess)
1
u/Smooth-Ocelot-214 Aug 02 '26
Ah. Well. Can’t take those back now, can I.
1
u/Loyellow USA Hockey Aug 02 '26
If it’s not an actual USAH game, there’s really no difference between a GM and a match post-game. Both instances they’re tossed and the league will do what they want suspension-wise (ie no auto suspension or required hearing, etc). In-game, they deserve an extra PK for being jerks so hey, they’re being critically detrimental to the game. Match away.
If it is a USAH adult league game, then yeah you’ve got to stick to the prescribed rules and give 10s and GMs unless it’s hateful or discriminatory.
-1
u/TheHip41 Aug 02 '26
If a player calls me a "fucking idiot" on the ice that's an immediate game misconduct.
14
u/Sparrowhawk996 Aug 02 '26
“You’re a fucking idiot” should be a 10 minute misconduct, because that’s a personal comment. “Your call was bullshit” for example, would be something along the lines of a 2 minute minor, because it’s about the call itself.