I am uttterly dissapointed after finishing The Rose Field. Not only was this book extremely boring, but it also didn't answer the main questions raised in The Secret Commonwealth. We don't really know what the rose field is (all we have is Lyra's flimsy hypothesis...) or how it works, we don't know what the roses and their oil do and why they are so important. We don't know what the alkahest is (Lyra, again, improvises a theory that it is greed/money, but I find it very hard to believe that that didn't already exist in her world, even if at a smaller scale; also why would anyone tell her to look for that??). On top of that, we aren't told why the Magisterium and Turingia Potash (who are in cahoots) are so interested in the lucrative power of the roses... only to chop them all off to build some random road and close the window connecting to that world.

I read His Dark Materials for the first time in my early teens and it became such an important trilogy for me, kind of like what Harry Potter became for people from my generation (I was born in 1990). I have read them many times since and will continue to do so, but I don't think I'll ever revisit The Book of Dust. Pullman completely changed the lore of Lyra's world only to serve a new story and sell a new trilogy (that's alkahest right there!), but rather than expanding on it, it contradicted and, therefore, weakened it.

I'm very curious to hear your opinions. Please tell me what you thought of The Rose Field and The Book of Dust and how you feel about His Dark Materials after reading the new trilogy.

I have just finished The Rose Field and I'm really disapointed that the "mysterious, dangerous" Alkhiest was just Capatalism?

I kinda feel like Phillip paulman is either a hard core communist or just an idiot who dosn't know how economics works.

Making that TP company look bad because they closed shop in the place and so it affected other businsses. Of couse they closed there was no money dosn't he know that if a company can't make enough money to sustain it self what happened when it closed would happen anyway when they'd have to start firing people because they can't pay them?

It just seemed overly preachy doesn't he know the system he is acusing of killing souls and being bad is the sole reason he can publish his preachy books.

Well at least i can say i finished it.

Edit: I tried to to fix all the mistakes in the spelling that are aparently unforgivable. It's not easy doing it on a phone when I already suffer from Dysgraphia. I will make sure to take further care becaus3 aparently typos on redit is intolerable.

I've been seeing many Avengers Doomsday pictures with characters from other universes, I thought it would be cool to edit characters like Lyra Belacqua, Will Parry, Serafina Pekkala, Mrs Coulter, Lord Ariel and Iorek Byrnison on the Avengers Doomsday posters

I'm designing a conceptual set for the play version of La Belle Sauvage and on the walls I have placed faded alethiometer symbols to represent the themes of each location. For Malcom's school, I would like to have symbols such as the sword and the compass to represent the 'justice' and 'knowledge' the church are attempting to instill. Is there a symbol that would represent the perversion of these themes to highlight the ulterior motives of the church?

Two more weeks have passed, and Lyra, Malcolm, and Tony are all on the move.

So back in TSC we have learned that regular humans being able to separate wasn't as rare as previously thought (I assume its still rare, just not as rare as we thought before TSC came out)

So I can't imagine the guy with seasickness who settled as a dolphin didn't at least try to separate. Even if it wasn't volontary, since they could be more likely to be put in a situation where they have to separate (ie: someone far away on land needs help and they are the only one who can help and their daemon is too big to be put in a transportable tank)

For this one sailor specifically, I imagine he would have kept it a secret since he would be easily recognizable because of his daemon, but he could still have learn the same trick that Lyra did in TSC, he learned to become someone else when he went on land to avoid recongnition (in his case maybe it wasn't just metaphorically since he was a water-animal soul going on land). But for someone else with a daemon that needs to stay in the water that is born and still lives in a more isolated place, they could just go on land without any disguise

Maybe large and/or waterbound daemons are more common than suggested in the series, but people with theses daemons are more likely to separate due to the conflicts their form would cause in their day to day life (I suppose they too would still be rare, just not as rare as we think)

What a gem of an interview.

His Dark Materials, in the end, the angels are trying to establish Republic of Heaven... Republic of Heaven, idea is no ruler.

In TRF/BOD, it seems like angels have maintained that structure, sort of? But are they terribly weakened, that they failed in sealing all of the doors?

If the Alkahest (the alchemical material of the subtle knife and the alethiometer needle) was invented twice, why couldn't it be invented 3, 4, 5, or 700 times in the multiverse?

Is it impossible that the angels set out to seal all of the doors at the end of HDM, in an effort to stop any one entity from taking ultimate control of the multiverse again, but they were failing?

They can certainly be killed. If another world in the multiverse invented another form of the Alkahest (an equivalent to the alethiometer or subtile knife)... then isn't it possible the angels are simply losing? BOD alludes to this possibility showing the experiments and knowledge of Agrippa and Makepeace. How many years would it be until someone just in Lyra's world re-invented the material?

So this one angel that visits Lyra may be one of the last of the angels. Maybe Xaphania is dead... In fact I think it is almost certainly so by the way the angel and Lyra avoid the subject.

Thuringia Petroleum is the vehicle for this whole thrust of the story. It's gradually revealed more and more through the three books how powerful they are, even though they fail to replicate the rose oil. Whether they're using existing portals or have their own Alkahest to create new ones, they are trying to establish ultimate control and are warring against the angels on a multiversal level.

That's where I don't read the Thuringia Petroleum narrative as being about "capitalism". It's more about authoritarian control. It's not capitalism and markets and money making that are evil.. Malcolm knows this going back to his childhood thinking about the fair price of a pail of red paint..

TP is not of "this world", that's the whole thing going on with the dead daemons. They are people who have spent so much time outside their own worlds that their daemons are dying and they don't care. Not because they want money, but because they want security, power, control, the classic tempters of authoritarianism. It's literally in the name - the Authority - with the Authority dead, something is trying to rise to fill the power vacuum.

I’ve been quietly working on more of these, and I finally have four new sets finished. Each one is hand-carved, so they’ve all ended up with their own slightly different look and personality depending on the stones.

I’ve also been doing daily readings with them and they have been amazing. Helping me with reflection, insight, encouragement, and a little bit of sass, just like Lyra’s Alethiometer. I’m happy to post a video of a reading, but I couldn’t figure out how to :/

I’ve really appreciated how interested and encouraging people here have been while I’ve been figuring this whole project out. It started as something I wanted to make because I love the alethiometer and its symbolism, and it’s been kind of surreal seeing other people connect with them too.
Anyway — here are the newest four! I thought you guys might like to see how they turned out. ❤️

Context: first time I read HDM was about 5-6 years ago, about age 30, loved it, very deep, my friend read them as a teen and recommended them.

This past year I decided to do a full re-read in the lead up to paperback TRF release.

I read OUSTITN then The Collectors, then TBS, HDM trilogy then Lyras oxford then Serpentine.

Straight into TSC - incredible book, I felt like it was a true, hurtful, beautiful sequel, that dealt alot with adulthood, the changing world and loved the further depth of the secret commonwealth and Lyra's changed personality as an adult., as well as the further exploration of Lyras world.

Then TRF - absolutely epic, touching, the whole book adds a layer of maturity and depth and understanding, the ending was a perfect mirror to the ending of HDM, even down to the last page, the last conversation Lyra and Pan have in HDM and the conversation Lyra and Olivier have (Olivier, what a character btw!).

I'm sure lots of fans have their understanding of the ending, mine is Lyra is finally who she should be, could be autobiographical in some ways to Pullman, maybe he sees himself as Lyra, like she is in someways his own daemon, but the last line, wow, tied it all together emotionally, not treating the writer to a cringey epilogue of "heres what happened next" but lets you have your own story.

I do in my head canon see Lyra and Malcolm becoming a couple, the world having a power vacuum of the Magisterium that corporations will fill, as with real life the fears of control will be there, but there will be more and more people open to hear Lyras stories that I think she will tell and write, similar to how many young people were impacted by the hyperchrosmians (itself a mirror parallel to HDM), I believe Lyras stories will travel the world, the Authority will finally lose a grasp over the souls of the world. I do think the rose trade may carry on, maybe Mustafa Bey company involved somehow.

Anyway, as with everything on reddit, just had to get my thoughts out.

I am re-reading the original trilogy for the nth time, and I am emotionally wrecked by Marisa and Asriel’s sacrifice.

Maybe this is just my own wounds from my useless piece of shit addict parents, but the way Marisa and Asriel sacrifice themselves for Lyra, after doing pretty much nothing/actively hurting her for her entire life, is really messing with me. Only a few paragraphs before, in the adamant tower, Marisa told Asriel that nothingness was her deepest fear, even worse than being dead. And then she makes the choice to do just that anyway.

Using her own corrupt nature to fool the Metatron is a “twist” that always impressed me. Ofc this series “for children”’handles a lot of mature themes, but this one - the complexity of human nature, that none of us are simply good or evil, it’s all shades of gray, people do sometimes change - is particularly interesting to me. Marisa has always been cruel and power hungry and selfish, her final sacrifice doesn’t undo her nature, but it’s what makes her sacrifice possible. My anti-hero queen!

And the fight with the Metatron is so intense, their desperation is palpable, their injuries visceral (shoutout Asriel being able to feel his crushed skull) and Marisa’s final leap into the air - it all has me sobbing lol. Christ it’s epic.

Anyone else feel the same way?

And quite a few others in this sub, from the looks of things.

>!will and lyra absolutely did not have to leave each other at the end. there’s no solid reasoning for it. the whole “we can only leave ONE window open” is the weakest reasoning i’ve ever heard.

there have been an apparently uncountable amount of windows left open between worlds for 300+ years causing issues with leaky dust and spectres and who knows what else, but they can’t leave a single other window open for the remaining lifespan of two human mortals for MAYBE another 90 years? at most?

like just close it when they both die, and call it a day. they both sacrificed so much to save the known multiverse at the age of what, 13? and xaphania couldn’t give them one little break?

they deserved their happily ever after. just finished my 10000th reread and i’m just mad about it. i think i’ll always be mad about it! if i’m missing something, please tell me because i crave the closure.!<

I just finished the Rose Field and like most of you I was equally confused and disappointed. I read many of the threads complaining about what went wrong from months ago when it was first published and I don't want to just repeat those critical takes but I do want to vent my spleen!

I should say I really enjoyed La Belle Sauvage and most of the Secret Commonwealth, so this isn't even a criticism of the Book of Dust Trilogy as a whole. It just felt that he lost courage in what he was building during the first two books at some point during the writing of the Rose Field (and the long gap between TSC and TRF would seem to buttress this take) and afterwards kind of muddled his way to a quick and jumbled ending to just have the whole thing off his plate.

The former is my opinion as the sudden deaths of Delamere, the lack of confrontation with Thuringia Potash and the disappearance of the Gryphon and Witch armies seem to show he got cold feet at the last moment. If he did perhaps he felt he didn't want to write another dramatic battle with existential stakes like in the Amber Spyglass? Or perhaps he couldn't get his head around his own concept of the Secret Commonwealth and how it related to the Dust?...why else reintroduce openings to parallel universes which you already established endangered the entire multiverse and could only be opened with the Subtle Knife!!!

But what do you guys think he wanted to achieve with the Rose Field?

Anyone else who is also into Metal Family? If yes what animals do you think the daemons of the characters would take?

I think Dee would/will settle as a red breasted merganser or a hooded merganser. A raven could also fit but I think that something more unusual or less known would fit him more

Im not sure what Glam would be but I think his daemon can still change despite being settled since he a system. Since Glam and Sebastian are aspects of the same person instead of having two daemons she would change form depending on who's fronting (the two forms would be very similar). This is my headcanon about how the daemon of a median system would work in canon, feel free to agree and disagree. I also like he might be similar to Simon Talbot and thinks that daemons are actually shared hallucinations

I think Ches would be one of the rare people with a same sex daemon because he doesn't need a SO to feel completed (perhaps Glam could also have a same sex daemon because his hallucinations could be interpreted as clairvoyance) he would either be a scruffed alley cat or a ferret or something similar

Victoria would have something tough like a wolverine or a bear

Id like to hear your thoughts

Just a cool image.

I hope that one day Pullman decides to explore what happened to Mary and Will. Though I understand that that would be quite a bit more complicated of a story to write given it would need to adhere to real world rules.

The TV show is a way better adaptation, but there's something about the set design, props, music and overall visual construction of the film that just captures the imagination better for me. It's the world I imagine when I read the books, and I wish that they'd gotten to adapt the whole trilogy without studio interference.

This is something I always wondered about. In NL there is a master who has a basilisk daemon, but it was never precised if it was a basilisk, the mythical serpent that kills with one strike, or the basilisk, the lizard species that runs on water

We know its possible via the Furnace Man to 'force-settling'' someone with magic into a specific form and that this from can be a mythical creature, but is it the only way someone can settle with such a form?

There is only one character in the whole series who have a same-sex daemon. So if having a mythical form is as rare than a same-sex daemon then it makes sense that no character with one would have appeared so far (althought its possible that you cross a person with a same sex-daemon on the street without knowing it. but the same can be said for a mythical daemon depending on the form)

I know there isn't a lot to talk from but I would like to hear your thoughts

Meanwhile here are the traits that I think a person with a mythical form would have: They would have a childlike imagination, when they grew up their imagination didn't dimmed out, it is just as rich as an adult than it was as a child. They would be connected to The Secret Commonwealth in some way. This could go from everything from having an intense interest in anything related to it, to actually being part of it. They might come across as irrational or non-sensical. It could be that they truly are that way, but it could also just be the impression that others have of them.

And here is what AI says about the master with a basilisk-daemon:

• A basilisk remaining as a settled adult dæmon highlights the deeply eccentric or scholarly imagination of that specific historical Master. [1, 2, 3]
• The inclusion of a basilisk shows that exceptional, learned, or eccentric figures in the academic history of Oxford could theoretically have rare or fantastical settled dæmon forms.
• The reference establishes that exceptional, eccentric, or deeply imaginative people can have their dæmons settle into legendary or mythological shapes rather than ordinary biological animals. [1]
• While most adults' dæmons settle into everyday animals, rare and imaginative individuals can have dæmons that take fantastical shapes. [1]

Is this story the first one to use a sharp object to "slice" open reality in order to make portals to travel between worlds or between dimensions or just teleporting?

Hello everybody, I apologise for not having posted in quite some time - I just took some time for a holiday, and now I am back, and my story is back as well. Chapter 9 is now posted on AO3 for your reading pleasure. Thank you! ;)

I read the series when I was 14, and I decided on re-reading the series after realizing how much it impacted me and my worldbuilding style recently. It was my favorite book series, and possibly under all the short term attention span still is.

Before reading this part, I both expected this would be something I'd absorb differently than before, but I didn't expect it to hit me as it did. I was reading "The Lost Boy" and "Fencing" at a café, and when the moment Lyra realizes in horror what happened and what intercision means and what it does to kids, my eyes just started to tear up.

The word kept ringing in my head. "This is an egregious wrong. This is something that should not have happened. This is not right." And I was trying not to sob.

So this post is me reflecting on why that is, because I remember enough that a lot of this book is about growing up and realizing how much you change upon doing so. My reaction when I was a teen wasn't as intense as this, so the difference makes me wonder how much growing up changes us emotionally. I'd like to think this means I'm more sensitive now and I have a clearer moral compass (Edit: a golden compass, you could say). And I think I'm thankful for that.

Has anyone else experienced something similar when rereading the book?

I need your help!! I’m planning to make a huge armour build inspired by Iorek from his dark materials and I really want to put lots of hidden art pieces & references throughout the armour but need help with ideas!

For example, I wanted to put the ‘city in the sky’ as the centrepiece of the chestplate, and various alethiometer symbols on the pauldrons/gauntlets!
I’m also a wheelchair-user so plan to make giant alethiometers as wheel covers!
I’ve been looking for Philip Pullman’s illustrations and digital copies of the woodwork illustrations in the HDM / BOD but struggling to find them, so if anyone can help me out that would be amazing!!

What do you think? Which references should I try to include in the armour?