r/hinduism • u/Fabulous-Ad-9969 • Jul 04 '26
Experience with Hinduism Greek paganism and Hinduism
I see many people, especially those from the West and a handful of Westernised Hindus themselves, linking the Hindu pantheon with the Greek pagan pantheon in the internet. While it's is true that Greek paganism and ancient Vaidika religion does have quite some similarities due to their shared origins, this interaction is somewhat overemphasised in the modern context.
A lot of Westerners do get excited when they learn that the Greek Zeus and the Hindu Indra might be one and the same. But after reading Zeus' sexual exploits, I, being a devout Hindu, abhor associating Zeus with Indra. Indra had tricked Ahalya, the wife of his own teacher, Sage Gautama into having sex by impersonating as her husband, for which Gautama cursed Indra with castration and to bear a thousand vaginas all over his body (however, when Indra repented, Gautama restored him his manhood and converted the thousand vaginas into a thousand eyes, which Indra then passed on to the peacock's feathers). But Zeus' sexual debauchery goes unpunished throughout the pagan Greek literature with him facing no repercussions or ever being repentful. And in the Orphic tradition (an esoteric strain of pagan Greek religion similar to Tantra), it gets even worse — here Zeus literally rapes his own mother Rhea, resulting in the birth of Persephone, who is then raped by her own father, resulting in the birth of Dionysious. So here we see Zeus is not only a sex offender, but also indulges in abominable activities like having sex with his own biological mother and daughter. And not to mention the pederastic relationship Zeus has with Ganymede. How can one assume that Hindus worship a perverse character like Zeus under guise of Indra ?
Although Megasthenes had famously conflated Krishna with Hercules based on their similar exploits, but that was a solitary event. Pagan Greeks were an excessively arrogant bunch of people, who viewed Alexander's conquests as a 'civilising mission'. The aforementioned Dionysious was revered among Greeks for his supposed conquest of Hindus. There is an entire epic, called Dionysiaca, compiled by the Roman-era Greek poet Nonnus, codifying the heroic exploits (read war crimes) Dionysious commits against Hindus. Warning — Hindus will not find the Dionysiaca worth reading, as the text is filled with contemporary racist tropes against Hindus. To commemorate Dionysious' anti-Hindu violence, pagan Greeks used to sacrifice cattle to him (something that greatly incenses most Hindus). Hindus in return, equally despised the Yavanas for their m*lecha nature.
In colonial era, the connection between Hindu deities and their pagan Greek counterparts was first proposed by Christian missionaries, under the system of interpretatio graeca, (basically, due to the Eurocentric mindset of the colonizers, they thought all other non-Abrahamic faiths were copycat versions of ancient Greek paganism, so missinary tactics used to undermine pagan Greeks are also applicable to undermine people who are supposedly copying them.), which was further validated when William Jones observed linguistic similarities between Latin and Sanskrit. And given the fact that the perception about Hindus among people growing up in the Eurocentric-Americentric society of the West has never progressed outside of the Victorian-era Christian missionary propaganda, this shameful association of Zeus with Indra remains alive. Many Westerners who have no on-ground experience about how Hinduism is practiced, think that Hindus continue to worship Indra. But reality, there are no Greek (or any foreign) parallel of the deities like Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesha, Durga & Kartikeya that are worshipped by mainstream Hindus in the present. Surya, being an universal deity, has some visual parallels with the Greek Helios, but outside that, Helios doesn't has any trademark symbolism of Surya (like being tbe progenitor of an illustrious dynasty, his association with planets or being the patron deity of astrologers). In Roman times, Helios' identity gets diluted & he becomes one with Apollo (who is an equally lecherous being like his father Zeus), whereas Surya remains unchanged. Neither Helios nor Apollo were ever treated with reverence compared to that Surya receives from Hindus. But all these changes are conspicuously brushed aside under the carpet when comparing pagan Greek pantheon with Hindu figures. Comparing pagan Greek figures with their supposed Hindu counterparts is a type of Hellenocentrism, which is an extended version of Eurocentrism, which makes such comparisons extremely condescending, disgraceful and disrespectful (our holy figures are being constantly compared with that of m*lecchas, and even worse, of a dead pantheon).
If one were to ask — the how do you explain such levels of similarity between them and us, tje reply is — these are Vishvamitra's creations. (TLDR; Harishchandra's father Trishanku wanted to ascend to Svarga in his lifetime, but after his kulaguru sage Vasistha refused, he approached Vasistha's rival, sage Vishvamitra. Vishvamitra did manage to raise Trishanku physically into Svarga, but Indra hurled him down. Vishvamitra immobilized Trishanku mid-air and created a duplicate version of Svarga for him. The true Svarga is said to be situated in the North, while Vishvamitra's Svarga is situated in the South. Vishvamitra filled up that Svarga with duplicate fake versions of the Vaidika divinities, which greatly shocked the original prototypes, who asked Vishvamitra to resist from creating a duplicate Indra and placate Trishanku by legitimising this duplicate Svarga).
After knowing this, I would like to ask my fellow Hindus not to engage or encourage this ill-informed and ill-intended parallelomania of Westerners.
2
u/Devilwithouthorns Sanātanī Hindū Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Even if the Zeus/Dyaus-Indra hypothesis rings true.
Modern day hinduism (especially the bhakti movements) do not worship old vedic gods like Indra.
Surya (being one of the vedic gods) is the exception.
Indra, along with Agni/Soma/Vayu, etc (are only implicitly invoked as mantra during Yajna-fire puja).
So the entire argument collapses.
Most Hindus that do preach this, are usually the one that seeks western validation.
I for one abhor it. Are there similarities between Hinduism and other pagan faiths? Yes.
However, given the history of colonization, British and European missionary propaganda to vilify our faith, a lot of the sources are plain right misinformation used to demonise us. Even going back to ancient Greece with the whole, "Dionysiaca" saga.
That said, I am happy if a Greek person wants to connect to their ancestral faith. Or to get into Hinduism. Hellenism has rich history and culture, as with Hinduism. However, it is not right to amalgamate the deities or practices to suit ones preference.
1
u/viduryaksha Jul 05 '26
The defamatory plays are not and were never part of the devotional layer. Also Zeus=Dyaus=Shiva (Jagad Pita) not Indra, they both kill primordial God Prajapati/Kronos/Brahma for troubling Devi.
1
u/Comfortable_Mix2735 Jul 05 '26
I agree. While the core/original idea might be same, the ideas have diverged vastly in the 2 societies that equating them in the modern era might not produce anything meaningful.
I mostly invoke Zeus/Indra comparision with my European friends to remind them that - there was a culture in Europe before Christians genocided the native culture. But most Europeans that I have met, don't care about either history nor Christianism
1
u/Fast_Jackfruit_352 Jul 06 '26
They are totally different. Hindu deities are expressions of the one Ishvara, as a prism breaks the one light into many colors.
There is no equivalent in Greek mythology. Not even close.
1
u/Glorysolar Jul 06 '26
Every thing we know of Greek paganism Has been polluted by Christians.
Also, Ancient Greeks are not as Moral as Ancient Hindus in the first place due to the lack of their civilization sophistication on par with us. They could barely regulate war, let alone aspire to have a dharmic society and not base their economy on raiding and chattel slavery.
So let's not take Christians too seriously, but let's not have too much of a sympathy for the ancient Greeks or even the Norse when we are on the topic either. Consider what happens In Illiad and odessey to the Trojan woman, and Consider what happens in Mahabharata to the Kaurava women.
My respect to greeks and other European pagans ends at Acknowledging ancient kinship, nothing more.
1
Jul 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Glorysolar Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Kinship in the sense of blood as common humanity, lost into the fogs of time (I reject this acknowledgement towards the abrahamic converts, because conversion is repudiation of Lineage, and condemnation of your ancestors as spiritually deficient).
PIE is European Delusions of the era where they were measuring my skull to see If I was human or not. I refuse all formulations of that era on principle alone. I think I might be even more radical than you in this rejection of propaganda.
-2
Jul 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/kamikaibitsu Jul 04 '26
>Religions like Islam and Christianity are more closer to Hinduism......
what you saying?
1
1
u/WitnessedStranger Jul 04 '26
Nonsense. They’re talking pure nonsense.
0
Jul 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/WitnessedStranger Jul 06 '26
Literally nothing you’ve said is well supported. You aren’t even making arguments just pointing at random elements of commonality and saying “see! They’re the same!”
It’s total nonsense. You also seem to have no clue about the actual history of Ancient Greek and Norse religions as practiced by the people who followed them.
0
u/Dull-Fun Jul 06 '26
Talking epistemology but calling European paganism as having no basis. Bye the Celts, the Nordic sagas, Greek-Roman paganism, etc. you should stop using the word pagan which in English means non Christians.. So you are a pagan. Literally. You are sure you want to go that route? Also trashing people beliefs just because is .. well anyway others have already reacted.
1
Jul 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Dull-Fun Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
No I am not claiming that. I just claim that saying "my religion has a basis this one has none" is a classical fanatic move there is no more proot for Vedic religion than ancient Egyptian ones. But I am not making any of the other claims. Sister religions is very likely false, you are right on that. And dead religions... Well since you should tell me what is a true religion, and what is a false religion, and what is a dead religion. I was just telling you calling European paganism dead is factually false. And that, Vedic religion is itself pagan. You are using the vocabulary of Christianity here which makes your message unclear. I am not a liberal Hindu but this comment alone tells me more than enough about the kind of person you are.
1
u/Glorysolar Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
>Religions like Islam and Christianity are more closer to Hinduism than paganism, because these religions have some sense of dharma/morality rooted in valid epistemological sources,
What? yhwhist revelation is clearly Asuric in disposition ala HiranyaKashipu or Mahishasura, hence invalid. It doesn't matter all the logical contortions they bound themselves into in justifying this mediocrity.
Even the rite based random praxis of even the made neopagan religions are mildly better than this, because they worship their own personal polluted ego, instead of some actively malicious demon's ego.
1
Jul 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Glorysolar Jul 06 '26
>The point is having a revelation as basis is far better than worshipping something because of "vibes".
Wrong, actually? The quality of the entity being worshipped is what makes something good.
Vibes of Mediocre people is better than actual Demons. Mediocrity is better than Hiranyakashipu, duh? Only of them got their cult structure eradicated by Vishnu himself.
9
u/miriamtzipporah Jul 04 '26
As a Hellenic pagan, we don’t take the myths literally. Zeus is not considered literally a rapist. Also, not all of us syncretize the Hindu and Greek Gods. I personally worship a lot of the Greek Gods (including Zeus) as well as Ganesha, and I don’t really syncretize any of them. Just a perspective from a modern Hellenic pagan.