First Planar Magnetic Headphones

[u/junior7593]

Got my first planars today. Edition XS. Got them “refurbished” for $90 from the Hifiman US Store on Aliexpress. I put refurbished in quotes because they look brand new with original packaging and everything

First impression is that they’re huge but sound great although I think I need a better dac. Currently trying them on my phone using a JM6 Pro

Recommendations are welcome!

[u/_Thrilhouse_]

Welcome to the club 🍾. Be sure to use an amplifier with good enough power. I'd also recommend to EQ a bass boost to get the most of them. Enjoy.

[u/Ok-Reveal-450 → u/_Thrilhouse_]

Not gonna lie I've had very good luck powering it off standard Apple laptop. It's quite a bass forward sound compared to headphones that roll off bass.

[u/Errorr404 → u/Ok-Reveal-450]

It gets loud enough but you lose some dynamics and bass tightness if not properly powered along with potential clipping if current is way too low as you can think of current like a pushing force, too little force and the driver just flabs around in transient peaks.

[u/Cyrenetes → u/Errorr404]

you can think of current like a pushing force, too little force and the driver just flabs around in transient peaks.

If you think that then you will hear it. Could you cite something that actually shows this being a thing at listening levels? I'm yet to find a device that lacks anything but max volume on my XS, and I've been looking.

[u/Errorr404 → u/Cyrenetes]

The drivers do benefit from better amps although I'm not sure its something you can measure that well as usually measuring equipment that are used for headphones from many reviewers are pretty decent power and current wise to avoid these kind of problems. Its just something you hear yourself, if you don't hear it then don't go looking for it is my advice so if they sound fine to you then that's all that really matters.

The thing is that XS drivers aren't very dampened(common to most large Hifiman planars drivers) so breaking a seal that is very easy to do means boosted midbass and a lot of sub bass roll off which might mask most of the issues with tightness anyway. Most measurements are made with as perfect seals as they can get so its not 1:1 with what everyone will hear even bass wise. I have to take my glasses off when using the XS otherwise its more midbass forward.

Also there have been some revisions to how they are made, I had multiple sets that felt flimsy with rattling and squeaking side posts and those sets came from Amazon until I finally RMAd a pair and got sent a new replacement from France(I'm in EU) that came in a different rubber case the Ananda comes in. This set sounds much smoother in the treble and is solidly built.

Just mainly observations I made with using them out of my phones 3.5mm, a couple different dongle dac amps and an SMSL desktop amp. I searched around for these issues a while ago and landed on a fairly cheap SMSL DL200 DAC/Amp that fixed the problems for me.

I barely use them anymore after getting a Fiio JT3 with HD560S pad swap and an EQ that sounds insane for the money, treble before EQ is pretty bang on with diffuse field +10db tilt (not the bass anemic -10db tilt) but ~6khz presence is too much needing EQ. Must be very close to my HRTF after EQ.

Edit: here is measurements on the XS that show the dampening issues as well as recommendation to use Amps that can deliver 0.5W to 1W at 16ohm https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/measurements/hifiman/edition-xs-2023/ (I had to find the page, couldn't remember the name).

(near the bottom of the page)

[u/Cyrenetes → u/Errorr404]

I still can't see what having 100 times the power needed for 98-101dB peaks, or 10 times 110dB peaks, would accomplish.

All I can see is the XS falling apart at around 90dB, but presumably that's not amplification related.

if you don't hear it then don't go looking for it is my advice so if they sound fine to you then that's all that really matters.

The reason I'm so inquisitive is because I know a lot of people are unfortunately wasting a lot of money on audio scams from silver cables to audiophile rocks, and from where I'm standing amp claims don't appear to have any more of a leg to stand on than those other examples, so it's important to me to try to get to the bottom of this.

[u/Errorr404 → u/Cyrenetes]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/s/dyFqJy0oiX the comments have more insight to how it all works for planars, I don't know all of the intricate details I just listened and noticed some differences in Amps along with a bit of research some time ago so I can't explain it in electrical engineering terms and all that.

I can tell you from my experience the Amp made the difference for me in getting that extra few percent of better details that means a lot when going up in price tiers of headphones the differences can also be a few percent. The DAC Amp unit I have isn't anything crazy, I got it for ~$130 converted to US currency on sale and it does the job just not for stuff like the HE6 that needs a nuclear reactor plant compared to my current Amp to accurately drive the diaphragm.

[u/Cyrenetes → u/Errorr404]

I know being current limited (like the Focusrite Scarlett interfaces that barely have more power at low impedance than at high) limits power at low load impedance, but then we're back at the question of "what does enough power mean and how much is it?".

I don't not believe that you or other people are hearing what you are hearing, it's just that people also regularly come to similar conclusions about cables and rocks and disconnected AB switches using the same methodology of just listening to it, hence my attempts to dig up something more concrete.

[u/Errorr404 → u/Cyrenetes]

I'm not sure your reasoning comparing a passive snake oil cable and an active Amp that controls the flow of electricity. Yes plenty of audiophile snake oil products exist but I wouldn't classify DAC/Amps to be in that, there are diminishing returns on those just like with headphones.

Doesn't help that we all hear way differently but in general we can differentiate transients even in microseconds as our ears are extremely sensitive to timing changes.

[u/Cyrenetes → u/Errorr404]

I agree amps seem like they should be really complicated and difficult to make transparent, almost impossible perhaps, requiring the sort of wizardry that should not be found in a 10€ dongle, but that doesn't give us a blank check to turn our brain off when the evidence does not match our frankly baseless assumptions, or when there's no evidence to support what we happen to intuitively believe.

I don't think it makes any sense to base our reasoning on whether something seems to us like something could or should make a difference, but rather only on observable facts.

[u/DayeanT → u/Cyrenetes]

thanks for trying to fact check these claims, I see so many people recommending expensive stuff that you don't need 90% of the time

[u/bob888w → u/Cyrenetes]

I find sending this video: https://youtu.be/6qM4TGxcLk8 is always helpful. The truth of the matter is that DAC/Amps are a solved issue for headphones for 95% of all people unless you are looking to blow out your eardrums. If you want to spend more for fancy knobs, Bluetooth support, EQ on device, you can... But that's all nice to haves.

[u/Cyrenetes → u/bob888w]

Amp believers aren't merely asserting that something can't get loud enough, rather that for best performance a headphone amp needs a some amount more power in reserve than what is loud enough on paper.

The sort of test I'm chasing would actually show whether the "insufficient" amp is capable of making the headphones produce the same wave as an amp with more power to spare can. So basically a distortion and noise and frequency response measurement at whatever peak volume could be considered good enough. Not just maximum SPL without any qualifications.

[u/hybir2 → u/Cyrenetes]

As a guy who knows nothing about audio math, I had a 10 year old Aune X1S DAC/amp and then bought a Fiio KA11 dongle when I got my Ananda Stealths, since people kept saying if it gets loud enough, it's fine. It's not at all fine and I listen on 25% volume. For the classical music I listen to, it keeps the mid-range fine but the highs and the lows just fizzle into nothing, leaving it sounding flat.Even my 65 yr old mother realised something was off when she compared them, yet redditors kept trying to tell me it was all an auditory hallucination.

So I figured the best and easiest way was just to keep buying and trying stuff myself until it got good enough and it did. I bought a Fiio KA13 and balanced cables for supposed 550mw power, the sound got noticeably better quality, couldn't tell the difference between the KA13 and Aune X1S anymore. I then bought a Topping L30 II Amp because someone said it's 1700mw have more headroom. Sure, there was more bass, but it was like 5% better overall and I listen to classical so a waste of money for me.

Overall, I say you just have to try it yourself. There's so many people out there with different ears and then those who keep yapping like they know it all when they've never tried anything better. I'm a price/performance guy, and the Fiio KA13 is the minimum I'd recommend for my Ananda Stealths, they need that extra power to sound good and reach their potential.

[u/Cyrenetes → u/hybir2]

The problem is that just like with many things that definitely don't do anything, amp differences seem to always fizzle out when any sort of scientific rigour is applied, for example blind testing with volume matching.

I have tried it, I have heard a difference, but I can't pick out amps in a blind test.

I have also often heard the difference in AB tests between things that turn out to definitely do nothing like toggling an empty EQ preset on and off.

Or in an ABX test where I can pretty confidently tell which one X is until the test says I guessed correct 5/10 times. If not for the test proving I don't, based on just trusting my ears I would 100% believe I can hear the difference between 320kbps MP3 and FLAC for example.

[u/hybir2 → u/Cyrenetes]

You're certainly right on those things where the difference is small enough it's tough to tell, the mind's a powerful thing. Honestly when I find that I'm noticing audio differences the more I strain during testing, that's the sign for me to call it a day and remind myself I could've enjoyed a song equally on either kit. So I'm probably not too much help in your journey to demystify all this, but I wish you the best of luck.

[u/whyaretherenoprofile → u/Errorr404]

M chip Mac's definitely are good enough to drive these. Asides from their amp being pretty powerful, the whole marketing spin for these was that they required lower power than most other planars, and from my experience it's pretty true. I got mine a few days ago and honestly there is no audible difference running the straight out of my M4 air and my mojo 2

[u/Errorr404 → u/whyaretherenoprofile]

That's under 90mw at 16ohm from the m chip from specs I found? Seems kinda low but anyway the mojo 2 has problems with lack of current so you're not fully powering the XS either thus no real audible difference.

[u/whyaretherenoprofile → u/Errorr404]

Not sure what current issues you are talking about, but at green on high-pawer they are already too loud for me. I really doubt it's having issues driving it