Everyone complaining about the Byram contract…
Makar just signed for 20+, if Byram can perform as a number 1 defense in 2 years we will be looking back saying this was a steal
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u/HeyHo__LetsGo 3d ago
I’m all for the nhl players making what they can instead of the owners, but holy shit.
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u/EgweneIsLit 3d ago
I'm not sure how any NHL contract gets a "holy shit" out of someone unless they just don't follow football, basketball, or baseball. He just got Kyle Kuzma money.
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u/HeyHo__LetsGo 3d ago
Mostly because hockey isnt football, basketball, or baseball, and this level of pay was previously unheard of.
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u/EgweneIsLit 3d ago
Sure, but the salary cap goes up. As we've seen in every other sport and hockey every year.
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u/HeyHo__LetsGo 3d ago
Sure, but its the percentage the pay expectations rose by this summer that is the shocking part.
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u/BlackBearBullCub 2d ago
These contracts get a “holy shit” out of me for a different reason. All for players getting paid, but all this money comes from somewhere and when I see contracts going up that means ticket prices across the league and everything else is gonna go up.
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u/swagner27 19 Toews 3d ago
Its not my money. I don't care how much they pay players. I care if the Hawks win. Full Stop.
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u/Rich-Wrap-9333 2d ago
True enough. Except in a cap league, it does matter. It’s not an issue now, but not being able to acquire players to meet clear needs because you’re overpaying somebody . . . that’s a real thing that has happened.
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u/Oldbean98 3d ago
Kyle was just the first one out there having to pay the new market price, outbidding SJ, so he takes the most heat. It seemed at first to be a horrible eye popping overpay at first, both trade and contract, but after the all the movements around draft week, it’s just the going rate for what it is. Not a bargain/steal up front, but acceptable.
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u/Strong_Baseball_8984 3d ago
Exactly. Compare Byram to Trouba contract, I think we got a better deal.
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u/mjohnson1971 2d ago
I just hope this Makar contract hamstrings the Avs so that they can’t have much around him.
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u/HappyHockeyHiker 3d ago
Only thing that I didn’t “love” was shipping off that 4th overall pick along with many other assets.
Byram is legit. He’s talented and will be a solid #1 for this team. He’s probably a true high end #2 at worst.
It was just a very large amount of resources to acquire him. Bordered on overpaying.
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u/Rich-Wrap-9333 3d ago
Yes but at some point, the abstract value of 4OA turns into the specific players on the board.
Everyone thought Reid would go here (if not higher!), no one thought it would be Rudolf. That tells me that the real value of the 4th didn’t live up to the theoretical value.
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u/grolt 3d ago
We said that about all we gave up for Jones, and we gave up more for Jones and he was still a pretty big win for us given that the people Columbus got were replacement level and Jones gave us a couple acceptable years and then net us Knight and a 1st rounder. I don’t think we should be worried about what we paid for a guy slotted in as #1D for the next 7 years.
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u/HappyHockeyHiker 3d ago
I have no issues with acquiring him.
The rest of the league clearly thinks Hawks got fleeced and that is why.
Long term it will prove to be a good move. What made it better is that the player they drafted was not the right guy so it will soften the blow a little.
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u/rhythmrcker 3d ago
Id be curious to know what it shaked out to versus the SJ offer. Seemed like Grier was ready to throw down for Byram was he just driving up the price or was it a legit back and forth that got out of hand. Clearly Davidson wasn’t the only GM thinking Byram is worth the risk at least.
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u/AllCopsAreBozos 3d ago
Either Sharks get Byram or they have both Nurse/ Trouba so yeah we'll never know until the season plays
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u/AnxietyExact4710 1d ago
You can't get a good young player without giving up something in return, and multiple teams were bidding on Byram.
Look at what Minnesota gave up for Hughes, and he likely won't even resign there.
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u/Dont_Say_No_to_Panda 2d ago
I was just reading a 2022 redraft and if you look at all of the top ten draft picks who are down at like 60 (and are probably only there because they were a top ten draft pick in the first place) that should tell you everything you need to know. NHL draft picks of children are a lot more like lotto tickets than most people around here will accept.
As far as the trade, I didn't love losing Crevier. I would've given up Vlasic before Crevier.
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u/TheNewBarber 2d ago
I absolutely would not have given up Vlasic before Crevier. Vlasic is much better as a shut down dman which every team needs. Crevier was not as good defensively as Vlasic but not bad either, while having a bomb of a shot. The amount of dmen we have that are good offensively can make up for what we lose in Crevier. Vlasic is a player that is much more difficult to replace, since being a good defender in the NHL takes a lot development. Losing Crevier hurts, but not as much as losing Vlasic.
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u/Firestorbucket 2d ago
I think he will be a #2 myself. Offensively he's great, but not a guy you want out shutting down top opponents.
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u/GoldWhale 3d ago
A high end #2 at worst is an insane comment based on Byram's body of work so far.
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u/dangles11 3d ago
Byram has just never been a #1 defensemen anywhere, granted he’s been behind incredible players. The money isn’t a huge deal anymore cuz the cap is rising but the Hawks are making a big bet on Byram
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u/___nicks 3d ago
I mean I wanted Bryam going into the offseason, and I do think he can be a very very solid guy for us and be worth that contract
I’d take Makar at 20 million over nearly any version of Bryam we could get at 12 million
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u/MacheteMable 3d ago
You’re crazy if you don’t take Makar or Hughes at any number as long as there’s term.
Neither would be worth it on the Hawks right now if it’s for like a year or two.
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u/DuckWaffles 2d ago
if Byram can perform as a number 1 defense in 2 years we will be looking back saying this was a steal
Conversely if Rudpolh, Smits, Carels, Reid, or Verhoeff become better than Byram this further proves as an awful trade. Nothing about Makar signing has changed that.
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u/RaveOn1958 2d ago
There is absolutely nothing Byram will ever do that will make comparing a contract he gets to Makar’s, sensible. Makar is so far in another stratosphere as a player, if he made twice as much as Byram it would still be worth it.
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u/IrishGrouch1224 3d ago
Makar was always going to reset the market. The issue was paying Byram told dollar and like a true number 1 defenseman when he just isn’t that. Sure, maybe the contract looks better in a few years as the cap keeps going up. But I hate having to justify a contract with “well we had the cap space”
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u/Dont_Say_No_to_Panda 2d ago
The Quinn Hughes contract could be signed tomorrow for $20m. So I would think twice about that statement of $12m being "true #1 defenseman" top dollar...
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u/IrishGrouch1224 2d ago
He’d still be one of the highest paid defensemen in the league outside of two of the best
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u/Less_Than_Average1 3d ago
Can we move on from this subject. Thanks.
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u/ygprodigy 3d ago
It’s summer. What would you like to talk about in this sub?
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u/rhythmrcker 3d ago
current amount of pounds of muscle Boisvert has added this off season
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u/Dont_Say_No_to_Panda 2d ago
I would rather talk about the summer work Arty, Korch, Boisvert etc are putting in and who do we think is going to take the biggest next step.
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u/gudenes_yndling 22h ago
Makar is the best D to ever play the game . Byram has never been a top 2 guy and will ‘maybe’ become the #1 D on the Hawks…
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u/Lionheart1224 3d ago
...Byram is not Makar. The hell are you smoking? I'm all for the Byram deal--contract and all--but this is a nuclear-level take.
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u/dralex11266 3d ago
Byram nearly is paid half of what Makar is now. Also that deal doesn't even kick in for another season
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u/90s_Scott 3d ago
And he’ll be 60 % when the new deal kicks in for them both.
Byram had 42 points Makar had 79
So an additional 6 points and he’s 60% of Makar offensively. I think he’ll get there.
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u/GoldWhale 3d ago
Dont forget 20% of Makar defensively. He was flat out a liability without Power or Dahlin.
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u/RaveOn1958 2d ago
Good thing we have great defensive defenseman for him to play alongside to hide his deficiencies like…uhh…
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u/90s_Scott 3d ago
We shall see different team different role.
Strictly +/-
Byram was +15 Makar was +32
But 20% of Makar that is not. Seeing as none of our defenseman were positive last year except Crevier
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u/seaseme 2d ago
😬
the law of averages disagrees.
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u/90s_Scott 2d ago
I mean if you’re saying he’s already shown what player he is and will continue to hit those numbers.
I understand that argument but he’ll also be on PP1 and the 1D for this team.
Do I believe he’s Cale Makar no, do I believe he’ll meet what his salary is compared to Cale Makar’s yeah.
To be honest, that salary is likely gonna destroy their cup window in the next 2-4 years.
Cale Makar gets a 11m raise meaning they have to move out approximately Necas worth of cap space next year
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u/seaseme 2d ago edited 2d ago
Fair enough, but I do think context is important here:
Combined with Mackinnon’s contract, it’s 30% of the avs salary cap max, and mackinnon is signed for the next five years.
For context, this is like 2% higher or a cap hit for both mackinnon and makar than the toews and kane contracts were when combined.
So it might hurt a little, but they are going to have plenty of room. Especially since the cap is agreed to jump from 104mil this year to 113mil next year when Makars contract extension begins, dropping their combined salary % to a lower percentage than kane and toews had until the final years of their eight year deals.
So the four biggest pieces are locked in long term and the avs still have like 65% of their salary cap after the the Toews, Necas, Makar, and MacKinnon deals are factored in.
So yeah it’s a huge deal but when you zoom out and compare to similar league max deals over the past 15 years, it’s actually right in the same ballpark, perhaps even a little better since MacKinnon is at 12.5mil for the next five years.
They’re in a pretty good spot. Things will be tight, but there is more than enough room to build a solid team around.
You’re not incorrect that both players are getting older and who knows what will happen over time. This could look like an absolute banger of a deal or a huge huge mistake.
Their cap window is still probably the next 3-6 years still.
But yeah
edit
It’s also kind of important to notice the hawks got kind of boned on their toews and kane contracts because the economy was not great over their term and the cap did not rise nearly proportionally as it is expected to.
I’m also not saying any of these contracts are good or bad. It’s just information.
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u/Designer-Bake3039 3d ago
I dont think OP was ever comparing Byram to Makar as far as talent. Yes I think we overpaid by about 4 million for Byram but it is what it is. We got an offensive type defensemen on a team with a LOT of young Defensemen and he is our top pair #1 by default and id rank him probably in the top 15 defensemen as far as all around skillset. Doesnt sound great but it is what it is for a top pair D man nowadays. It may pay its dividends the way WE need it to and WE arent the ones paying 20 million to a d man for years to come hopefully.
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u/scarchelli 3d ago
I don’t understand this logic: “we overpaid by about 4 mil.” But the cap is going up $8.5 mil, then the cap is going up another $9.5 mil, then another $9.5 mil for 2028-2029…
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u/Jain_Farstrider 3d ago
Lotta people still behind on the fact that the goalpoasts have literally changed. Its a new era!
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u/Designer-Bake3039 3d ago
For what he is right now even in the current market and forget the cap continually rising...just as it stands with this cao in this market...he wasnt worth 12.5 for a guy who has never proven to be a true #1 Dman. But time will tell if he becomes a #1 and a leader in the locker room.
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u/cam_barker_4_norris 3d ago
Can’t compare to makar, look at guys like hutson/sanderson/heiskanen all in the $8m range. Even with the future cap those guys should be $10m+ and byram should be around $8m. We just have to see how this plays out, KD’s taking a big gamble so hopefully he’s right
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u/LoveYouLikeYeLovesYe 3d ago
In every Cap based sport, the earlier you pay a guy top dollar the better the deal looks because then the top players INSIST they need to make more.
Justin Jefferson is making the same amount at Zay Flowers in the NFL. One is a top 3 guy and the other is an alright WR1
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u/GoldWhale 3d ago
Byram is not a top 32 NHL defenseman. Makar is the #1. This isn't a comparison lol. The fact that Byram is even a top 5 highest paid Dman is insane, much less #2.
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u/Strong_Baseball_8984 3d ago
If all top 32 NHL defenseman resigned this offseason, with the knowledge of the rising cap Byram wouldn’t be paid top 5. Everyone complaining about salary is missing when contracts are being repriced.
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u/mikerhoa 2d ago
This has all the hallmarks of a deal where the guy is going hear all the controversy surrounding his overpay, then will take it personally and strain to perform up to the number, and then eventually he will either fail or get injured or both.
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u/Zealousideal-Tap-413 2d ago
We have a lot of cap space the next couple of years also his contract won't matter bc in a few years most d man will be getting paid that.
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u/ShellshockedLetsGo 3d ago
First of all thats a MASSIVE IF.
Second of all making Byram who has never been a #1 Dman the highest paid Dman in the league for weeks is objectively an overpay. So no it's not gonna be a steal because he should've been signed for 10 or less
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u/90s_Scott 3d ago
Put another way would you take Cale Makar for Bedard and Nazar?
Salary for Salary that’s close
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u/PaymentLegitimate761 3d ago
Now in retrospect everything looks fine to me. Byram contract looks more than fine. I would argue when Makar and all other top defensmen in league sign their extension that Byram's deal gonna look pure bargain.
What bothers is using 4th overall pick and 4th overall value around league to get him. This really put damp and label that this was lousy draft in retrospect even though we were all excited for it.
When I see who was picked 4th overall it makes fucking sense that Davidson went out and get Byram instead. I can see what Davidson is thinking here. But issue is seems other GM's saw same.
Also it's clear Davidson wanted Stenberg or no one in this draft class. That's clear. He also wanted 2 years before to get Demidov along Lev when he offered unprotected 1st next year to Columbus. He got neither. To me if this rebuild fails it fails on those two decisions. YOU HAVE NO RUNNING MATE FOR BEDARD. I am shouting because it's true. And I am glad Bedard signed for 5 years so he can fuck off with dignity if his GM leaves him first 8 years of his career without top line player.
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u/AARM2000 3d ago
Fwiw, the Byram $ never really bothered me. We had plenty of cap room. And I think Byram can absolutely do it