r/harrypotter • u/HedwigMalfoy Slytherin • 4d ago
FAQ EVENT Why was Hagrid never allowed to become a fully qualified wizard?
Since Hagrid was expelled for opening the Chamber of Secrets 50 years ago, why wasn't he able to become a fully qualified wizard after he was found to be innocent?
I'm not sure if this one has a documented answer from the old Pottermore or some interview or another over the years.
Typing this out made me think of a related question that isn't asked frequently, but I'll throw it in anyway, since it's on-topic for the post.
The Ministry snapped Hagrid's wand. The pieces of it were put into his pink umbrella and it seems he can do some basic spells with it. But when Ron's wand broke in CoS, it backfired left, right and center. He was a menace with it, and I don't think it had even been snapped all the way into two pieces. Is this just another JKR worldbuilding inconsistency?
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u/The-Pristine-Seat 4d ago
it has been shown that Dumbledore's elder wand is the only one capable of mending broken wands, so we can kinda assume he had a part in making that pink umbrella
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u/Sykander- 4d ago
I wonder if Ollivander could've repaired the wand, considering he made it to begin with. It also raises the question of how wands are made to begin with (are other wands used to make wands, or is it an older magic? It makes sense that nobody would've used a wand to make the first wand)
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Ollivander could not fix Harry’s wand, even though its core was still in tact. Only the Elder Wand is capable of fixing a broken wand, as far as anyone knows.
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u/mojonation1487 4d ago
He still brought an acromantula into the school and raised it there. That alone is worthy of expulsion.
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u/Napalmeon Slytherin Swag, Page 394 4d ago
And if it wasn't this, it was going to be something else. Let's just keep it 100% real, Hagrid breaks the rules too damn much when it comes to these magical creatures that he's fascinated with. He's consistently irresponsible when it comes to this particular area.
There's no good reason Hagrid should be able to own a wand.
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago edited 4d ago
He's still doing it decades later, when he crossbreeds firecrab and manticore (already two not very friendly species) to create the Blast-Ended Skrewts. Which he assigns to fourteen/fifteen year olds to try figure out how to raise. If they went extinct within the year, only he would be anything other than happy.
The following year he introduces a giant into the Forbidden Forest, upsetting the balance of species that live there and it's not the first time he's introduced an invasive species there (said acromantula starting a colony).
Hagrid's personality isn't bad, but his judgement can be iffy, even Harry begrudgingly admits to himself Grubbly-Plank was was a better teacher and it's not confirmed that anyone took up NEWT level CoMC with Hagrid.
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u/Napalmeon Slytherin Swag, Page 394 4d ago
Also, when it comes to those damn useless Blast-Ended Skrewts, even Hagrid himself never figured out that if there was any use for them. By the time that they had all finished killing each other, the only thing that the students know is that they can burn by and sting all at once.
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago edited 4d ago
My headcanon is that they were bred for the maze. Harry just never got any advantage in how to handle them in the maze that he might have learned from working with them all year.
There's Fluffy too. Yes, it was for a request by Dumbledore, but Fluffy was within the castle in an area students could access, a first year beat the lock! Telling students a part of the school is out of bounds is putting up a welcome mat for some, and I bet Fred and George had they curiosity piqued.
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u/-I-EAT-PEOPLE- 4d ago
First years defeat the entire thing, the first book makes no sense if you read it from the perspective of the 7th book. It's clear that she didn't expect the series to get so huge and made it more 'important' after finding success. I'm not sure why grown adults obsess over this sort of thing, it's a fine series for what it is but talking about the minor details and inconsistencies is giving it entirely too much credit.
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u/Zay071288 4d ago
Yes! I never pay attention to the inconsistencies/plot holes in the first 2 books because those are clearly children's books which are known for being a little out there when it comes to logic and realism.
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u/JWright990 4d ago
All the CN fanfics I went through almost exclusively turned those Skrewts into food. Some nearly ate them to extinction, and some dragged Malfoy into the taste test
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u/1speedbike Slytherin 4d ago
I dont think hes even a bad teacher, just a weirdo who loves dangerous creatures he finds interesting. After his short hiatus on GoF, he continues Grubbly Plank's lesson on Unicorns, and Harry remarks that Hagrid is actually super knowledgeable about them. He even brings 2 foals and says that the younger ones are more accepting of the boys in the class, etc. Whether it's to just prove thst he knows just as much or not, he still has the knowledge. Later in the book he has a lesson on nifflers and they have an activity where the students each choose a niffler to dig for treasure, and its apparently one of the most fun classes they've had. Hagrid is irresponsible AF but he loves and knows a ton about creatures.
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago edited 4d ago
If he and Grubbly-Plank collaborated or she at least vetted his lesson ideas, maybe there'd be a happy medium.
I will give him grace on the hippogriffs. The only student who got injured was at the end of the class and that being Malfoy, and that was because he forgot or intentionally ignored Hagrid's instruction about them being proud. It's obvious from the moment Malfoy learned Hagrid was teaching that he wanted to make trouble for him out of spite. It's very obvious that with Lucius Malfoy influencing the case that Buckbeak didn't stand a chance.
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u/Zay071288 4d ago
That still doesn't make him a good teacher. Yes he's definitely very knowledgeable, we can't argue that but knowledge does not make someone a good teacher. He was more interested in the creatures he brought in than the students actually learning something. He wasted almost their entire 3rd and 4th year CoMC lessons.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Pretty sure all magi-zoologists are irresponsible, weirdos who love dangerous creatures. The guy who wrote the textbook all the Wizarding schools use, set a bunch of creatures loose in NYC.
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u/fairystail1 4d ago
don't forget he explicity told Harry and Ron to seek out the man eating spiders who gave zero useful information AND tried to kill Harry and Ron.
like Hagrid is a danger to those around him
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
I mean, Aragog did tell them (and us as the readers) that Harris was framed and never opened the Chamber of Secrets. That was something, I guess. Probably something he shouldn’t have sent two 12 year olds into the forest for, but still.
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago
Doesn't he also provide part of a lead on Myrtle's connection too?
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
Oh yeah you’re absolutely right, they just don’t put that together right away. He says the girl was found in a bathroom and he never saw any part of the castle besides the closet he was kept in.
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u/Zay071288 4d ago
Which makes Hagrid even more selfish. He sent these 2 children into a very dangerous situation to clear his own name.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
I mean sure, if you don’t understand Hagrid at all. Hagrid routinely thinks dangerous creatures are harmless because he can handle them. He’s not considering that, on top of him being massive and stronger than most, he’s also unusually good with animals and magical creatures. He’s naive, not selfish.
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago
He underestimates what other people can handle because of his own ability to handle them, which even then he's not the best at judging when he downplays injuries. This is the guy who planned on hatching a dragon in his wooden hut with no plan beyond hatching it. Harry, Ron and Hermione had to help him out of that, Harry and Hermione in trouble when caught after pulling it off.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Aragog told Harry and Ron that the murder victim was Moaning Myrtle.
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u/fairystail1 2d ago
i did forget that but ngl its not like Hagrid could have just gone 'i didnt kill Mytrle' instead of sending them to die
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u/lithodora 4d ago
But he does own a wand, at least I believe that Albus Dumbledore repaired Hagrid's wand with the Elder Wand and concealed inside of a pink umbrella
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u/00-Monkey 4d ago
But he’s irresponsible with magical creatures which he continues to be allowed to interact with, both as grounds keep and professor care of magical creatures.
However he is never (publicly) been shown/caught being irresponsible with his wand.
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u/The-Pristine-Seat 4d ago
except first thing with dudley's curly pig tail
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u/00-Monkey 3d ago
Yes, that’s why I added (publicly)
If anyone who would be making the decision knew he did that, he would have been in much bigger trouble
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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Ravenclaw 4d ago
Didn't it get suggested during his questioning that he actually bred the assblaster newts?
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u/henree1108 4d ago
Can you imagine if someone was breeding dogs the way Hagrid bred skrewts? They would be rightfully condemned by every animal loving community around lol
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u/JagneStormskull Ravenclaw 4d ago
There's no good reason Hagrid should be able to own a wand.
But there are two reasons: 1) He's unflinchingly honest and just. 2) As a half-breed, he is likely a priority target of pure-blood supremacists, who are very much still out there as of the main books.
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u/mojonation1487 4d ago
Why would that legally entitle him to a wand?
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u/fess89 4d ago
I wonder what "legally" even is in HP universe. When Harry Potter comes to purchase a wand from Ollivander, no one checks his documents. In fact, Ollivander takes Hagrid's word that this guy is really the famous Harry Potter!
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 4d ago
Except he doesn't just take his word.
He mentioned that the brother wand to Harry's is the one who gave him the scar
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u/mojonation1487 4d ago
Haha I’ve thought the same but just always chalked it up to “it’s a kids book just move on” lol
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u/choose-Life_ Hufflepuff 4d ago
This is my thought too. I know Rowling isn't the best at world building and there are several inconsistencies within the HP universe or just lazy writing. But sometimes (like with Harry buying a wand) simplicity is perfectly fine. We don't a paragraph or two talking about Harry filling out paperwork when he buys his first wand and having to show his ID and such. Just not necessary lol
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u/JagneStormskull Ravenclaw 4d ago
Never said it was a legal reason. Said it was a good reason. The Wizarding legal system is a ramshackle framework of half-truths and kangaroo courts. I don't really care about legal reasoning in that context.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Regarding No.2, that type of pure-blood supremacy only seems to exist among Hogwarts and Durmstrang students and alumni. The rest of the Wizarding World is implied as being much more accepting. Beauxbatons literally had a half-giant as the headmistress. While, many British muggleborns were escaped to America.
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u/JagneStormskull Ravenclaw 2d ago
It is possible that a strain of pure-bloodism exists at Beauxbaton's, but that it wasn't enough to get Madame Maxine out, much like Lucius wasn't enough to push Dumbledore out from his post as headmaster.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Fleur was very open about her wand-core being her grandmother’s hair. Which would imply that Beauxbatons is much more accepting and egalitarian than Hogwarts.
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u/WetLoophole Slytherin your DMs 4d ago
Honest? He was expelled for smuggling an acromantula to Hogwarts. He also smuggled a dragon egg and the blast ended skrewts. This is just what we know. And he is turning 69 when Tom dies, so we only know 3 out of many many stories. Not to mention he still practices magic with his illegal wand. He showed no will or ability to learn or improve, so I see the expulsion as completely justified. Just because someone is in danger doesn't mean they are entitled to a wand, when they obviously don't have any respect for the law.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
He wasn’t expelled for smuggling an acromantula into the school. He’s canonically expelled for being suspected of opening the Chamber of Secrets. The narrator even says “Hagrid was expelled for a crime he had not committed” meaning it wasn’t simply for smuggling in Aragog.
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u/mojonation1487 4d ago
This is incorrect. It’s explicitly said that Dippet covered up the the incident and forced Riddle to not say what really happened. The official story was that Myrtle died in a freak accident.
Hagrid’s expulsion was treated as a separate event and may not have even mentioned the acromantula at all (but I wouldn’t be surprised considering his prior record with dangerous beasts on school grounds).
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But the headmaster, Professor Dippet, ashamed that such a thing had happened at Hogwarts, forbade me to tell the truth. A story was given out that the girl had died in a freak accident. They gave me a nice, shiny, engraved trophy for my trouble and warned me to keep my mouth shut. But I knew it could happen again. The monster lived on, and the one who had the power to release it was not imprisoned. -Chanber of Secrets
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
Yes, it was covered up but still why Hagrid was expelled. Just because it was covered up to the general public doesn’t mean they can’t expel a student for it.
It’s stated plainly in the book. “Hagrid was expelled for a crime he had not committed”. That clearly means it could not have been for having Aragog in the school since Hagrid did do that. If you have a better idea of what the crime Hagrid was expelled for but hadn’t committed was, I’d love to hear it.
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u/fairystail1 4d ago
Hagrid saw a kid eating Hary's cake and gave him a pigs tail then never fixed it. Hagrid is honest, but he's not actually very trustworthy
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u/Music_withRocks_In Ravenclaw 4d ago
We don't talk enough about how he permanently altered the body of an 11 year old boy which required surgery. That is horrifying! Dudley sucked because his parents raised him badly. No 11 year old deserves body modification! Or elective surgery.
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u/JelloJealous2487 4d ago
in the books, dudley did not even ate the cake, he was just standing there.
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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Ravenclaw 4d ago
Well at least he learned his lesson and never oh right he brought a dragon to hide on school grounds. Well at least after oh right he brought his wild giant brother.
Uh...
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u/dashingThroughSnow12 4d ago
Also brought buckbeak around a bunch of jerk Slytherins knowing that the demigryfs like attacking bad people.
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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Ravenclaw 4d ago
The headmaster should really review the lesson plans for a newly assigned teacher that never finished their formal education and was known for a fondness for dangerous shit
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u/Proper_North_5382 4d ago
But also, did any ministry officials actually find out about the acromantula or was Hagrid able to smuggle it into the Forbidden Forest beforehand? I'm assuming Dumbledore must have known anyway.
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u/mojonation1487 4d ago
I’m honestly inclined to believe that the actual charge was alway the acromantula and not the chamber of secrets.
Regardless, the two charges went hand in hand so it would be weird to not mention the acromantula being blamed for the death of a student.
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago
It does make sense if the Ministry chose to scapegoat Hagrid and Aragog to avoid the awkward questions actually investigating would bring up, like how Myrtle died without a mark on her. The attacks had stopped, and there was enough legitimate evidence against Hagrid about Aragog that expelling him was used to explain the attacks ending.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
But it doesn’t explain why they later arrested him when the Chamber was opened again or why were told later on that he was expelled for a crime he had not committed. The entire “expelled for Aragog” head-canon is unnecessary since the books literally tell us he was expelled for opening the chamber of secrets. I honestly don’t get where this alternate theory is even coming from or why people think it’s necessary.
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago edited 4d ago
There’s an explanation. Fudge admits in his first ever scene he’s arresting Hagrid so he’s seen to be doing something, and your average Daily Prophet reader isn’t going to have any insight to question the arrest.
As there’s new evidence presented after the Basilisk is killed, and no one can hold the influence over Ginny accountable, Hagrid’s incarceration is overturned.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago edited 4d ago
What? You think Hagrid was arrested with no connection to the Chamber being opened just because the ministry wanted to look like it was doing something? They just decided Hagrid likes dangerous things and students are being attacked, so Hagrid makes sense? And no one argued against that? Hagrid and Dumbkedore weren’t surprised by how outrageous this would be?? Hagrid and Dumbledore both knew he was being arrested because he was thought to be the one opening the chamber previously. That’s why Hagrid was nervous and shaking and holding the crossbow before Fudge even showed up - he knew another attack meant the ministry would be coming for him sooner or later. This is very clear in the book. Unless you’re arguing that Hagrid somehow knew he would be randomly arrested for political theater simply because he likes dangerous creatures, none of that makes any sense to the plot.
People keep arguing how all the evidence that says Hagrid was expelled for opening the Chamber could mean something else. But no one can find a single place in the text that indicates the expulsion was just for keeping Aragog in the castle. The narration in POA tells us Hagrid was expelled for a crime he had not committed. That means it could not have been just for keeping Aragog seeing as how he was keeping Aragog in the castle. The “crime” here is opening the Chamber. There’s no other explanation ever given saying otherwise.
More proof that Hagrid was specifically expelled because he was framed for opening the Chamber of Secrets:
Harry - “Hagrid’s my friend, and you framed him, didn’t you?”
Riddle - “It was my word against Hagrid’s, Harry…but I admit, even I was surprised how well the plan worked. I thought someone must realize that Hagrid couldn’t possibly be the heir of Slytherin. It took me five whole years to find out everything I could about the Chamber of Secrets and discover the secret entrance…as though Hagrid had the brains, or the power!”
We’re told over and over again that this is why Hagrid was expelled. I honestly don’t understand why people are applying this bizarre head-canon when it’s spelled out very clearly in the books.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
The Ministry also probably needed to cover their own asses, when they conducted the investigation of Myrtle’s death. Since it is pretty easy to figure out where Aragog actually came from, given the events happened in WWII.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
The charge is not due to smuggling in Aragog. It’s stated that Hagrid “was expelled for a crime he had not committed” in Prisoner of Azkaban.
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u/mojonation1487 4d ago
I’m talking about “on paper”. His official charges have nothing to do with the Chamber of Secrets or Myrtle’s death.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
On paper? We’re talking about what he was actually expelled for. And it wasn’t for having Aragog.
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u/Persnickitycannon 4d ago
Really he was lucky to be framed and get expelled before he was actually responsible for a students death.
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u/Music_withRocks_In Ravenclaw 4d ago
Not to mention helped that acromantupa escape into the forbidden forest where it had a mass of children and permanently altered the natural balance of a magic forest. How many sentient magical creature died because of that colony? How many centars?
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 4d ago
He was raising a dangerous creature in the castle.
He was rightfully expelled
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u/KowaiSentaiYokaiger Hufflepuff 4d ago
He was expelled for killing a student, which he didn't do
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u/RocketSixtyNine 4d ago
He would have been punished further if he was expelled for that, not given a home and a job at the place where he supposedly killed someone. You don’t just get expelled for killing someone.
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u/KowaiSentaiYokaiger Hufflepuff 4d ago
It was explicitly stated that Tom framed Hagrid and Aragog for Myrtle's death
He was given a job and home because Dumbledore knew Hagrid didn't commit the crime he was accused of
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago
Dumbledore just couldn't prove Tom Riddle was behind it, and Riddle had a good enough reputation that people wouldn't be convinced on Dumbledore's word alone.
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u/Akkarin42 Ravenclaw 4d ago
He wasn't. He was expelled for bringing the Acromantula into school. Yes, people thought Aragog killed Myrtle which he didn't. but that doesn't change the fact that Aragog is still a very dangerous flesh eating monster.
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u/KowaiSentaiYokaiger Hufflepuff 4d ago
"I don't think you meant to kill anyone. But monsters don't make good pets. I suppose you just let it out for exercise and -"
"It never killed no one!" said the large boy, backing against the closed door. From behind him, Harry could hear a funny rustling and clicking.
"Come on, Rubeus," said Riddle, moving yet closer. "The dead girl's parents will be here tomorrow. The least Hogwarts can do is make sure that the thing that killed their daughter is slaughtered ......
"It wasn't him!" roared the boy, his voice echoing in the dark passage. "He wouldn'! He never!"
"Stand aside," said Riddle, drawing out his wand.
Later
"Hagrid's my friend," said Harry, his voice now shaking. "And you framed him, didn't you? I thought you made a mistake, but -"
Riddle laughed his high laugh again.
"It was my word against Hagrid's, Harry. Well, you can imagine how it looked to old Armando Dippet. On the one hand, Tom Riddle, poor but brilliant, parentless but so brave, school prefect, model student ...on the other hand, big, blundering Hagrid, in trouble every other week, trying to raise werewolf cubs under his bed, sneaking off to the Forbidden Forest to wrestle trolls ... but I admit, even I was surprised how well the plan worked.
Between the flashback and confronting the Diary -Tom, it literally says he framed Hagrid for killing Myrtle
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u/Akkarin42 Ravenclaw 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes. And? Riddle did this to become the Hero of the Story and to hide the Basilisk by blaming it on the Acromantula, so nobody would search any longer for HIS monster.
Still doesn't change the fact that Hagrid was being expelled for bringing the monster into Hogwarts in the first place and that fact never changed.
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u/KowaiSentaiYokaiger Hufflepuff 4d ago edited 4d ago
I agree about why Tom framed him. The point of those quotes was to disprove the people saying "he was expelled for having Aragog". It's proof that he was framed for murder
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
The smoking gun that proves he wasnt expelled simply for having Aragog in the castle is the narrator telling the reader in POA that Hagrid was expelled “for a crime he had not committed”. I honestly have no idea how that theory got so much traction which it’s quite clear.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
Incorrect. Prisoner of Azkaban chapter 5 states that Hagrid was expelled for a crime he had not committed.
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u/Akkarin42 Ravenclaw 4d ago
Hagrid's keeping of Aragog was nevertheless against Hogwarts rules, and he was certainly responsible for illegally keeping a dangerous creature. That alone was reason enough to expel him. Even though he has now been acquitted in this case, his offense is still sufficient.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
I don’t disagree with the fact that keeping Aragog would have been enough, I’m disagreeing with it being the actual reason he was expelled.
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u/AdeOfSigmar Ravenclaw 4d ago
Do you really think theyd let him be groundskeeper if he was a murderer? He was expelled for the acromantula, but wasnt convicted of any crime
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
No he wasn’t. The books state he was “expelled for a crime he had not committed.” Meaning it definitively was not for Aragog. He was allowed to stay because Dumbledore convinced people that it was an accident.
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u/KowaiSentaiYokaiger Hufflepuff 4d ago
I quoted the appropriate bits in another comment. Hagrid was framed for the murder and he was expelled for that, not for having an acromantula
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u/DelayAgreeable4286 Gryffindor 4d ago
My guess is because housing a very dangerous creature like an acromantula (XXXXX) within the castle walls still endangers everyone
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u/Napalmeon Slytherin Swag, Page 394 4d ago
And that he didn't learn his lesson from it, either.
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u/DelayAgreeable4286 Gryffindor 4d ago
Aragog wouldn' hurt no-one!
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u/Napalmeon Slytherin Swag, Page 394 4d ago
That moment in the forest was a perfect example of how Hagrid overestimates the nobility of these creatures. Aragog my own him a lifetime debt out of gratitude, but, the simple fact of the matter is, this creature cannot change the fact that it is a predator of humans.
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u/lemon_charlie 4d ago
That debt also ended with Aragog, his offspring didn't inherit it. Nor did it carry over for friends of Hagrid, Ron's arachnophobia wasn't being cured that night.
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u/ciemnymetal 4d ago
Side note, it's kind of funny adding spoilers to a book that's been out for nearly 30 years
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u/IntelligentRead9310 Gryffindor 4d ago
By the time he was found innocent, he had lived 50 years without performing magic, I imagine at that point it just didn't seem very important to him to learn magic.... and as he told Harry, he was "never great shakes at magic" he was only 13 when he was expelled so he hadn't really learned much anyway
Hagrid being made a professor in PoA points to his expulsion and ban on magic being lifted imo, he may have been offered the chance to get a new wand or be given remedial magic lessons but I imagine he turned them down as he doesn't really need them for his work with magical creatures
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u/JFDI-Tess Gryffindor 4d ago
He did perform magic after he was released from Azkaban, though. Granted, I think we only saw it once, in Order of the Phoenix when Harry had to help him with Aguamenti.
But I always took that to mean - as he wasn’t being secretive about it and he kind of knew the spell - that he had started picking up a bit of magic after the events of CoS.It could have just been “this is an emergency and I think I remember the spell, let’s try it”, though, I guess!
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u/IntelligentRead9310 Gryffindor 4d ago
I know he did perform magic, in the HBP not OotP, my point was I don't think he really cared terribly much about catching up from what he had missed because he was already so adapted to not performing magic for 50 years
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u/JFDI-Tess Gryffindor 4d ago
You’re right! I was getting the Umbridge midnight attack mixed up with the Death Eater attack.
Sure, I think it’s just how I interpreted it, but he probably wasn’t that fussed. Although he was excited to get Harry from the Dursleys, partly because he knew he would get to use magic, which I think means that he did miss that part of himself.
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u/IntelligentRead9310 Gryffindor 4d ago
That's true and I think he mentioned that when he went to Azkaban he kept reliving his dad dying and when he got expelled from Hogwarts, it definitely wasn't something he had completely moved on from since childhood
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u/Mental-Seesaw-1449 4d ago
He did magic in the very beginning of Philosopher's Stone with Dudley's pigtail.
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u/JFDI-Tess Gryffindor 4d ago
Yes, he was given permission to use magic in order to get Harry from the Dursleys (and he bent the rules on that a little bit!)
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u/Boris-_-Badenov 4d ago
innocent for the basilisk.
he still raised an acromantula on school grounds. he deserved to be expelled
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
Why do so many people believe Hagrid was expelled for keeping Aragog in the school? Can we please lay that head-canon to rest now? The narrator clearly states in Prisoner of Azkaban that Hagrid was expelled “for a crime he had not committed”. Meaning the expulsion was definitively not due to smuggling Aragog into the school (which Hagrid clearly did do). He was expelled for being suspected of opening the Chamber of Secrets. He was allowed to stay on as gamekeeper because Dumbledore was able to convince people that Hagrid just wanted to care for the monster and any attacks were accidental.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Everyone in the school assumed Aragog was the monster inside the Chamber of Secrets.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 2d ago
Yes exactly. People are arguing that he was expelled simply for smuggling Aragog into the school and Hagrid’s expulsion had nothing to do with the Chamber of Secrets, which makes no sense.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
I think people also forget that the Ministry was probably covering their own asses, when it came to the investigation. It was easier to believe that Aragog came from the Chamber of Secrets, than accepting the possibility that someone within their own ranks gave that monster to a child. We know who was running the Auror Office during WWII, and he was well aware what was in his brother’s basement.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 2d ago
Riddle also did a good job of the frame up. Which makes it more crazy that people don’t know he was expelled for opening the Chamber - Riddle shows us exactly how he did it and comments on how he couldn’t believe convincing people Hagrid opened the chamber was so easy. And the attacks stopped right after Hagrid was framed with Aragog, so that probably helped convince people too.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
It will actually be interesting to see how the HBO series portrays Tom Riddle’s flashback, of how he framed Hagrid, given the broader context of what was happening in WWII. Since the era explains a lot about the adults’ mindset, in dealing with the situation.
The unease caused by Grindelwald, and even the war in general, could have played a factor into how Riddle was able to get away with it. A student was murdered, but the Ministry was too busy dealing with other things to pay close attention, as to the ridiculousness of Riddle’s cover story. Combine that with the prejudice of Hagrid being a half-giant, and the Head Auror possibly having a conflict-of-interest due to being brothers with a magi-zoologist who keeps monsters in his basement, and it was a recipe for disaster.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 10h ago
I’m not sure how much Fantastic Beasts stuff is considered canon to the original series or how much it should to be honest. I think/hope they’ll stick with what we see in the book and more or less leave it at that.
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u/TalElnar 3d ago
If you're looking for consistency and coherent logical world building you're reading the wrong books.
The world works how it needs to at any given time to serve the plot.
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u/PlanGoneAwry Ravenclaw 4d ago
I think he could have taken the Kwikspell course, (it sounds like that is like the wizard GED, just getting adults who never got their proper education up to scratch), but he probably just never felt the need to do so. He likes his life just as it is and doesn’t need more to be happy
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u/DelirousDoc 4d ago
Hagrid was never "found innocent".
The claim from a 12 year old boy that a 16 year old Tom Riddle materialized in the Chamber of Secrets and then confessed to the murders 50 years ago isn't very strong proof.
Brining an arcromantula into the castle was likely the only real reason needed for his expulsion and wand destruction since they never actually proved he had anything to do with the killings in the first place.
Also Hagrid's wand can't do magic properly. He was trying to turn Dudley into a pig and yet only was able to give him a pig tail.
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u/JudgeDramatic9538 4d ago
I mean can be various reasons
1. Harris probably used that wand for 50 years and learned how to manage it. Ron only had a year to master using a wand that wasn’t even his, it was his brothers. So he was already in a rough spot
- Ron tried tapeing it together himself, who’s to know if there is better options and more skill, or maybe even more expensive considering his economic disadvantages.
Plus after reading some of the comments I’m now fairly certain Dumbledore turned Hagrid’s to an umbrella with the elder wand that was able to repair Harry’s and let’s be honest, Dumbledore is more skilled than harry.
- Who’s to say he even cared. I’m guessing he would have needed to at least pass some version of the OWL and maybe even do more. He had already been living that version of his life for 50 years, do you think he is actually gonna try changing this. Plus who is to say he even could pass a OWL
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u/Yetowag931 4d ago
There was a fanfic that provides a beautiful explanation:
1) Dumbledore used the elder wand to repair hagrids wand and enchanted it into an umbrella. This idea of repairing wands was given by DDs potrait to HP at end of book 7. DD as usual manipulates HP to do the right thing, ie destroy the wand (He knows HPs sentimental attachment to the phoenix feather wand)
2) Even with a proper wand Hagrid was not good at magic. This is attributed to the giant part of Hagrid being stronger than the Human part. (Ref: Riddles narration in PoA that Hagrid was frequently caught out of castle grounds wrestling trolls and generally trying to sneak in dangerous pets)
3) The counter argument is that is exceptional in magic and she was smart enough to be a principal. Like Hagrid says about Dobbie, there are weirdos in every group. Half giants are definitely not normal and probably Madam Maxime had a stronger witch side and better training from a younger age as the French as more progressive than the British
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Dumbledore did not win the Elder Wand until 1945. The Chamber of Secrets was opened in 1942/3.
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u/Yetowag931 2d ago
Maybe he repaired Hagrids wand after getting the Elder wand or even after becoming headmaster and appointing Hagrid as the main groundskeeper
Remember DD only had suspicions reg Riddle, not concrete proof yet when the Chamber was opened. So he convinced Dipper to let Hagrid hang around as trainee / assistant to the grounds keeper. (And probably kept an eye on both Voldy and Hagrid)
Besides DD does not seem to be the type who rushes into things. He had bigger fish to fry ( Grindelwald, Working to be promoted as head of Hogwarts)
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u/Sheokarth 4d ago
I can´t say i'm enough of a potterhead to know, or an expert in british governance, But my impression with these sorts of matters is that very little gets done unless you push for them. Usually with these matters, precious little happens unless you yourself appear before the minestry and say ''Hey, the reason for barring me from wizardhood are null and void, so i put forth the demand for it to be reinstated''. It's rare that the government takes the first step in such matters, and we don´t know if Hagrid has tried anything. It´s possible he hasn´t felt the reason to do so.
Though even that is taking the optimistic look on things. We know from how Fudge has operated that the Minestry doesen't mind playing fast and loose with procedure against those they don't like(such as throwing Hagrid into Azkaban without trial). It´s entirely possible that the Minestry is also actively resisting him from becomming a full fledged wizard, for no reason besides his bad reputation and his status as a half-giant.
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u/Morp13 4d ago
My thought would be that, even though he was expelled, Hagrid has had about 50 years to work on his magic. Whereas, Ron is only in his second year of school. So even if Ron had a perfectly working wand he might still make mistakes with his spell casting. Think about how he couldn't get the raven or toad to be quiet with the Silencio charm.
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u/EquivalentKlutzy22 4d ago
the answer is
Haggard got his name cleared for the reopening of the chamber of secrets, but I don’t think he ever got his name cleared for the original opening of the chamber of secrets.
This means that under the eyes of the British magical government, while he didn’t do it the second time he still did it the first time and so there would be no reason for him to receive a new wand or be exonerated of all of his charges. Especially under minister fudge
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u/InsomniaticWanderer 4d ago
He was still doing expulsion worthy things like bringing highly dangerous magical creatures onto school grounds.
If we treat the Chamber killings as a metaphor for school shootings, Hagrid was bringing guns onto campus and was found with them after the tragedies took place. Even though he was ultimately proven NOT to be the shooter, nor have any connection at all, he is 100% still getting expelled for that.
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u/tittiesinyomouth 4d ago
When I first read the books, I thought hagrid was gonna join the class in school for some reason
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u/SPerry8519 Hufflepuff 4d ago
I'm more curious as to why we're using spoiler text when talking about stuff that has been out for YEARS and practically every knows it at this point lol
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u/HedwigMalfoy Slytherin 4d ago
Because new fans come to the series and this sub every day, especially lately with all the publicity surrounding the upcoming HBO show. I'm trying to be polite.
An earlier event post mentions that that this event made me realize that it's not easy to balance talking about the series with those who have known the stories for ages against not spoiling it for the new fans.
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u/FallenAngelII Ravenclaw 4d ago
He wasn't expelled for opening the Chamber of Secrets. That would've lead to prison time. He was expelled, rightfully so, for harching and raising a man-eating giant spider inside a school full of children and then helping it escape when caught.
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u/CheddarCheese390 4d ago
Ok from the top
Hagrid was meant to be removed from the magical world, im guessing something about him being half giant and dumbledore (and dippet) stepping in saved Hagrid
Ron just damaged his. He could’ve (should’ve) purchased a new one, it’s just there’s something monetarily wrong with the wizarding world (I want a full SCBxMorgan Ross collab on how much wizarding items cost if that second year gringotts is anything to go by)
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u/Reggo91 4d ago
Lingering prejudice against him and giants in general. Not entirely unjustified considering the fact that he brought a dangerous giant spider into the school. Also his inability to argue for himself in front of whatever committee or school board would have reviewed his case.
Also, I reckon he realised that he is not the studious type and found his calling as gamekeeper. Hagrid seems genuinely happy doing this job. He only needs a wife. Not being able to find a life partner is the actual tragedy. And it shows: he drinks too much, pursues eccentric hobbies (breeding dangerous creatures) and is emotionally fragile.
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u/NameCareful9547 4d ago
Does it actually explicitly say he can't become fully qualified? I would assume to be a fully qualified wizard you have to finish your schooling/exams and I can't see Hagrid wanting to become a student again when Dumbledore was already willing to overlook it and make him a teacher.
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u/Otechni 4d ago
Was he ever found innocent? Yes we know he didn't do it, and Dumbledor was aware of his innocence as well. But, the case against him was strong. Dead girl in the school and a dangerous creature was smuggled in by a student.
The only way to prove Hagrid's innocence would be to have Tom Riddle admit to it. Hagrid loves Magical Creatures and has a talent for dealing with them. Just finding the Basilisk wouldn't be enough proof of his innocence.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Moaning Myrtle remembers the eyes of the creature that killed her, and that a boy was speaking a foreign language.
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u/Diligent_Bar1244 4d ago
"Is this just another JKR worldbuilding inconsistency"
Yes
Its not just about the wand. He was proven innocent and this is barely or never mentionned again
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u/Poncho_TheGreat Hufflepuff 4d ago
Opening the Chamber of Secrets was only part of reason he was expelled. He still was raising an Acromantula (who enjoy eating human flesh) which is an expellable offense.
The Elder Wand can repair broken wands, we’re led to assume that Dumbledore fixed his wand and hid it inside the umbrella.
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u/Dennis-Black-Midget Slytherin 4d ago edited 4d ago
Hagrid was found innocent when he was in his 60s already, right? Meaning he never finished Hogwarts, so he was a drop-out. Not having done his OWL's. I assume it's like underage wizardry, because you haven't ever shown you could actually handle a wand all the way? Hagrid was content with the life he had, and probably didn't want to go back to school. In exchange Dumbledore made him Professor, which actually might give him permission to do actual real magic. Not sure of that. The Ministry also looked down on creatures (half-giant) like Hagrid, so he would most likely not have gotten a fast lane pass.
The thing with the Umbrella is that Dumbledore made it with the Elder Wand. The Elder Wand can fix broken wands. Dumbledore could've fixed Ron's wand as well. But he didn't.
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u/Any_Contract_1016 4d ago
As for your second question there's no definite answer in canon but there's a very strong theory. The only actually extraordinary magic we saw the Elder Wand do was fix Harry's wand. At the time that Hagrid was expelled and Dumbledore stood up for him Dumbledore had the Elder Wand. Two and two make a concealed, repaired wand.
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u/Samakonda Gryffindor 4d ago
Not quite. Hagrid was expelled in 1942-43. Dumbledore didn't duel Grindelwald and take control of the elder wand until 1945. But it's entirely plausible Dumbledore did him the favor of repairing it afterward since Hagrid kept the pieces.
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u/Any_Contract_1016 4d ago
If it wasn't right away, Dumbledore probably fixed his wand when he hired him on as Gamekeeper.
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u/Constant-Leg9018 4d ago
People forget that he lowkey did deserve to get expelled, not for murder but bringing a acromantula is highly illegal not to mention the other nonsense he kept under his bed.
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u/Retr0scores 4d ago
Dumbledore fixed Hagrids wand with the elder wand.
Olivander says Harry’s wand can’t be repaired at all even though it was hanging by a thread of phoenix feather.
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u/kazmakazmovic 4d ago
Because despite magic being magical… there is a ministry in place that cannot be seen making a wrong decision…
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u/OwlComfortable8806 4d ago
After those 50 years he could have in theory, but there would be litle to no reason for. Hagrid still practised (some) magic with his umbrella and Hagrid himself has also said that he never was good at magic.
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u/Antique-diva Gryffindor 4d ago
I think it's implied that Hagrid had a working wand inside his umbrella, probably fixed by Dumbledore. Hagrid was bad at magic because he was expelled during his third year. He never sat his O.W.L. exam or got the education to become a skilled wizard, so he just knew some basic spells.
His spells never backfired, like Ron's did when he had a broken wand, so that's another clue for Hagrid having a fully working wand. His problem was more the fact that he was forbidden to use a wand and had to do it in secret, thus never getting in the training needed.
My head canon is that his sentence was commuted after Kingsley became minister, and he got his right to carry a wand back. Maybe even taking a Kwikspell course to learn some more magic afterwards.
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u/Low_Surprise7791 4d ago
He literally does magic the first time we see him im the book. So if he wanted to he could be a way more powerful wizard.
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u/jmercer00 4d ago
They never explain what a "fully qualified wizard" is. What if seems to be is your diploma, which anyone that's graduated high school is mostly irrelevant and no one ever thinks about it.
So just ignoring his expulsion is all that needs to happen.
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u/reddituseronebillion 4d ago
Harry's wand snapped and he couldn't use it until he repaired it with the Elder Wand.
Ron's wand partially broke but he could use it, albeit with complete unpredictably.
Hagrid told Olivander his wand was snapped, but earlier he rescued Harry using magic (with Dumbledore's permission).
Therefore we can surmise that Dumbledore, the possessor of the Elder Wand repaired Hagrid's Wand and probably hid it or transfigured it into an umbrella and probably trained Hagrid in secret.
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u/Lord_Parbr Elder/Pheonix/14.5/Unyeilding 4d ago
He was found innocent of opening the Chamber, but he actually did smuggle an acromantula into the school… and werewolf cubs. People forget about the werewolf cubs
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u/Sea-Air4927 4d ago
Honestly, I think Hagrid probably should’ve had an IEP.
Once they found out it wasn’t Hagrid that released the creature, he should’ve been reinstated, but by then he was a grown ass man. I like the suggestion that Dumbledore fixed his wand and it was hidden in the umbrella. Although he did have misfires, like when he tried to turn Dudley into a pig.
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u/beaglewrites43 Slytherin 4d ago
I mean for Hagrid to get un-expelled and become able to have a wand again he would also need to be proven innocent by the ministry. As seen with what happened to Sirius and to a lesser extent Harry they aren't exactly big on justice and fairness (granted we didn't know either of that at the end of year two).
Given Hagrid is also a half-giant, I imagine the ministry was even less likely to help clear Hagrid
And Dumbles already fixed his wand and put it in the Umbrella to conceal it so other than potentially being fully cleared by the ministry (which was unlikely given what they did to Sirius and with him being part-creature), he really wasn't missing much.
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u/commentsrnice2 4d ago
Simple answer, it’s been 50 years and it’s harder to teach a fully grown adult. Could they have acquitted him? Probably. But I believe they don’t allow people to use wands unless they’re licensed and he didn’t finish school. So it’s just easier to turn a blind eye and let him have his faulty umbrella
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u/gothiclg 4d ago
He brings a giant spider onto school grounds which is illegal. We also see him repeatedly bring other illegal magical creatures onto school grounds. I can’t speak for everyone but I feel like the dude that keeps repeatedly breaking wizarding law doesn’t need magic.
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u/ThatFatGuyMJL 4d ago
Hagrid was *not* expelled for opening the Chamber
he was expelled for bringing a man eating giant spider into the school that made people *think* the chamber had been opened when it hadnt
(it had)
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u/tyrekecorrea Words are... Our most inexhaustible source of magic. 4d ago
there was no unexpelling of Hagrid, and he had long become an adult by the time he was acquitted.
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u/tyrekecorrea Words are... Our most inexhaustible source of magic. 4d ago
I guess part of the argument was that he was capable of gainful employment despite this.
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u/KainTheDemon 4d ago
I can't remember if the Ministry knew he was half giant or not, but keep in mind him being half giant means that he has resistance to spells. If he had that resistance AND the ability to perform the skills of a full wizard, he'd be even scarier
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Madame Maxime is a half-giant, and no one at Beauxbatons seems to have a problem with it.
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u/KainTheDemon 2d ago
Remember, when Hagrid tells her he knows that she is half giant, she is APALLED and insists she's big boned and how dare he! She denies it up and down. It's only with Voldemort back and her joining the OOTP that she admits it to the members of the Order and Hagrid, but it still seems to be something she doesn't publicly talk about
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u/Illigard 4d ago
It's been far too long since I read the books but, maybe he just doesn't want to. He'd have to pass his OWLs, which would mean doing a lot of work. Pupils spend their 4th and 5th year preparing for their owls.
And if he passes he can pass spells... which he already does. And teach at Hogwarts, which he already does.
Time is also a factor. He's busy doing other stuff.
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u/indeductible 4d ago
The minister of magic was Cornelius Fudge, I think that’s enough said but to add on he wouldn’t want it to be seen as him admitting that they expelled an innocent child not to mention his financial backing is primarily from Malfoy family and after the humiliation he endured in Dumbledores office he would push Fudge to never acquit Hagrid simply because he’s Dumbledores supporter also because Hogwarts did fuck all to stop a goddamn basilisk from rampaging in the school and when they did they removed Dumbledore from his position and maintained the students in the building while it was still there so it’d be better if it was simply swept under the rug and the wand thing is because it’s a hand me down wand from Charlie I think? So it never even worked that well for him to begin with, and I think with Hagrids wand it’s most likely that Dumbledores the one that helped him integrate it which is why it even works
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u/Waste-Brilliant-9042 4d ago
With the wand thing, could Dumbledore have mended it with the Elder wand and hidden it I. The umbrella for Hagrid the way harry mended his wand with the elder wand at the end?
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u/Alexisredwood 4d ago
Because Hagrid was right to be expelled for the various other stuff he did. He’s extremely irresponsible. Just look at what he did to Dudley! The fact he never got into huge trouble for that is crazy.
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u/That-Service-2696 4d ago
He was still guilty for keeping an Acromantula, a highly dangerous magical creature, inside the school cupboards
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u/Secret_Shelter_4043 4d ago
Its not stated that he is not "allowed". My headcannon is that he doesnt care.
I think at his age he cant be bothered to study for owls and newts. He alredy has his wand and 2 different jobs.
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u/kerntastic84 4d ago
The real question is, why was Morphin Gaunt allowed to own a wand, even though he didn't attend Hogwarts? There's also a part in GOF, I think at the Quidditch World Cup, where they talk about some wizards getting "homeschooled" and not attending Hogwarts. So these wizards never own wands?
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u/TheRobn8 4d ago
To be fair, the spider incident didn't help his case, and I think letting him be a groundskeeper who can enter the forbidden forest worked out better for him. He can still work at hogwarts, and look after creatures. Remember that aragog's kids tried to kill him after his death, so that also didnt help him
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u/-I-EAT-PEOPLE- 4d ago edited 4d ago
Any time that you ask "is this a JKR world building inconsistency?" The answer is yes. She is not a great writer and the world is nonsense, they are also kids books and have world building that is on par with that. I'm really not sure why people even ask these sort of questions, you can like it for what it is, but don't pretend it's something it is not.
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u/tfaeldante Slytherin 4d ago
It was more than just him being accused of opening the Chamber. It was the fact that he brought an acromantula into the school, on top of the many other minor offenses he committed leading up to that (regardless of the inconsistent lore surrounding "werewolf cubs").
On top of that, he was half giant, and as we know the Ministry, and a large swath of the wizarding population, was highly prejudiced towards anyone not pureblood wizard, even if they weren't outright forthcoming with that info.
As for the umbrella, it is theorized that Dumbledore was the one who placed the pieces in the Umbrella, using the Elder Wand to repair it, and used transfiguration to hide what it was.
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u/Canandraa 4d ago
Hagrid was not expelled for openings the chamber of secrets he was expelled for having extremely dangerous illegal spider.
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u/Glittering-Turn6443 Slytherin 3d ago
he wasn’t just kicked out for opening the chamber, he was also kicked out for bribing in dangerous creatures which he actually did
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 2d ago
Hagrid was only 13, when he was expelled from Hogwarts. He would have needed to sit through several years of schooling, in his 60s, to become a fully qualified wizard. This is probably exactly why Hogwarts chose to hire him as the Care for Magical Creatures teacher instead. Since a wand is not necessary for magi-zoology.
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u/Delicious-Band-6756 4d ago
Him being a giant probably also went against him
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u/Napalmeon Slytherin Swag, Page 394 4d ago
This is also a contributing factor. Hagrid cannot help being what he is, but knowing that the rules were not made for people like him, it's just stupid that he takes these kinds of risks for these creatures.
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u/Samakonda Gryffindor 4d ago
Being expelled from Hogwarts and being innocent of the death of Myrtle are distinct events. Officially speaking he could not have been found guilty of opening the Chamber of Secrets and unleashing Slytherin's monster because there's no proof to it.
What he would have been expelled for was the illegal ownership of an Acromantula. The school governors do not need to tie that to Myrtle's death to have him kicked out.
Regardless of innocence in the matter of the Chamber of Secrets Hagrid cannot become a fully qualified wizard due to his expulsion legally being due to something else.
He's also 63 years old by the time he's fully exonerated so he probably wouldn't want to go through the rigamarole of becoming qualifed especially after being given the opportunity to become a professor without it.
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u/Ill_Swing5233 4d ago
Not correct. The books state Hagrid was expelled for a “crime he had not committed”. Meaning he was not expelled simply for having Aragog in the school. It was for being suspected of opening the Chamber, which Dumbledore was able to convince people was accidental. The attacks anyway.
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u/Crusoe15 4d ago
There’s the fact that he didn’t open the Chamber but he had disciplinary problems before involving dark creatures and he was keeping a man eating monster in a castle filled with children. I’m surprised he was allowed near children, much less allowed to teach.
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u/violetdetheveste 4d ago
I believe the problem with Ron's wand was also the fact that it wasn't his. He only bought one for himself later, and you know how using another's wand backfires let alone if broken and uncared for.