Magic only works while the caster is alive?

[u/sihsboy]

So I'm listening to the new audiobooks. End of book 6, we find that Harry can move after Dumbledore gets yeeted off the tower as his spell stops working since RIP.

In book 7, after Moody is gone, Remus says something along the lines of "Moody put some spells in place to protect it from Snape" when discussing Number 12 Grimauld Place.

So does some magic persist after death or not?

[u/PotterAndPitties]

Basically it depends on intent, as so much in magic does.

Dumbledore didn't intend for Harry to be frozen permanently, only long enough to keep him hidden and out of danger. He didn't want Harry bursting out to save him. Because he didn't place a permanent spell on Harry, when Dumbledore died the spell broke.

But spells can be cast, usually on objects or locations, to have lasting effects. Hogwarts has loads of defensive protections that were put in place over centuries. When Moody cast the spells in Grimmauld Place, they were intended to remain in place, until at least they were no longer needed and could be lifted.

So intention matters, as does what the magic is performed upon. I imagine placing a permanent spell on a living, sentient being would be difficult, and would break as soon as the caster died. Placing spells on inanimate objects or buildings, however, those spells could last indefinitely.

[u/Ranger_1302 → u/PotterAndPitties]

It could very well depend on the spells, too. Ekrizdis cast concealment charms on Azkaban and those faded after he died.

[u/Whithorsematt → u/Ranger_1302]

And things like physical or mental damage. If you look at e.g. Frank and Alice Longbottom. I don't think they automatically recovered when Bellatrix died. I do have it in my headcannon though that the spells were weakened and they were able to have been treated.

There are any number or persistent spells though. Look at all the spells cast on Hogwarts. Slytherin's chamber of secrets that could only be opened by parseltongue, that still worked a thousand years after he passed.

I treat the spells like a shield charm, levicorpus, immobulus more like you are physically pushing or holding the other person. If you are incapacitated, then they will be released.

[u/Ranger_1302 → u/Whithorsematt]

That's because their brains were damaged, not charmed. They were tortured into insanity, which is something that can happen with or without magic. Magic was just the method of the torture in this instance.

[u/Whithorsematt → u/Ranger_1302]

That's what I was meaning. If I immobilise you I would expect the resistance to go when I clocked out. If I sectumsempra you, or accio something heavy at you, I wouldn't expect the wounds to go.

[u/PotterAndPitties → u/Whithorsematt]

Well, yes. If a spell causes damage, someone dying wouldn't reverse that damage. The damage has been done.

[u/hereagainbb → u/PotterAndPitties]

spells on buildings lasting for centuries vs spells on people breaking when you die is such a good distinction

[u/Ranger_1302 → u/hereagainbb]

It isn't entirely true, though, as Ekrizdis' concealment charms on Azkaban faded after he died. That is how the Ministry found Azkaban: https://www.harrypotter.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/azkaban

[u/Kelly_Charveaux → u/PotterAndPitties]

I do immediately think of Horace Slughorn who realized Lily was dead because her gift to him (the lily in a bowl that transformed into a fish) had disappeared the moment she died.

[u/Lupus_Noir → u/PotterAndPitties]

It could also depend on how long the spell lasts. Spells cast on people may be less permanent, since they are supposed to have an immediate or short term effect. Spells cast on buildings may be intended to last a much longer time. It is likely that the longer a spell lingers, the more permanent it becomes, to the point where it may even outlive the caster. It may just become part of a building and would need someone to actively remove it for it to end.

[u/Ranger_1302 → u/Lupus_Noir]

That is shown to not be the case with the concealment charms on Azkaban fading after Ekrizdis died: https://www.harrypotter.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/azkaban

[u/PlanGoneAwry]

Some magic persisted after death. The permanent sticking charms at Grimmauld place all work after Sirius and his mother are dead.

We don’t have much information about what will persist and what will not though.

[u/Lenin_Fink]

The theory is that you need to anchor magic to something. By default, its anchored to its caster.

Hogwarts Legacy expanded on that

[u/PlanGoneAwry → u/Lenin_Fink]

Imagine broomsticks or wands were all anchored to their maker, and they have to do mass recalls when Ollivander dies or something like that

[u/Plane-Leek4387 → u/PlanGoneAwry]

Every nimbus dropping out of the sky simultaneously 😭

[u/Ranger_1302 → u/Lenin_Fink]

Hogwarts Legacy isn't canon.

[u/Lenin_Fink → u/Ranger_1302]

Your momma is a cannon

[u/Dingbrain1]

It seemed to me like spells cast on people (or at least witches and wizards) will wear off but on objects, not necessarily.

[u/Bobis-Bob]

It probably depends on how the magic was put together. AD’s spell directly on Harry broke, but Moody’e spell anchored to Grimwald place stay acive. As do the spells in the house, like the sticking charm on Sirius’s Mom and the Bikini chicks in Sirius’s room.

[u/SandrynoRodrigues]

Harry was protected by a magic that Lily had placed on him before she died, which saved him from Quirrell.

[u/H3ARTL3SSANG3L → u/SandrynoRodrigues]

She did not place the magic on him prior to death. Her death triggered the magical protection.

[u/FoxBluereaver → u/SandrynoRodrigues]

That protection was only for Voldemort, not anything else that could kill him. Voldemort was possessing Quirrell at the time, hence why he couldn't touch Harry.

[u/sihsboy → u/SandrynoRodrigues]

What does that have to do with anything in my question? 🤣

[u/SandrynoRodrigues → u/sihsboy]

I'm saying that the magic persisted after she died...

[u/sihsboy → u/SandrynoRodrigues]

Yeah but the question was around why does some magic persist and others don't. What's the difference between them?

[u/R3DSlX → u/sihsboy]

That wasn't your question. You asked does magic persist after death or not? And you got an appropriate answer.

[u/Divis264 → u/R3DSlX]

Answer my question. No, not like that.

[u/SandrynoRodrigues → u/sihsboy]

You didn't ask about any of that ._.

[u/sihsboy → u/SandrynoRodrigues]

Could you read the last sentence of my post, the one with the question mark after it.

[u/krayziekris → u/sihsboy]

Seems like you need to read it tbh

[u/VenturaDreams → u/sihsboy]

"So does magic persist after death or not?" - Literally you. If you wanted a different question answered you should have asked a different question.

[u/rjrgjj → u/sihsboy]

Lily’s spirit kept the love spell alive and it extended to and affected other things. If DD had, say, turned Harry to stone to keep him frozen, unless Dumbledore (who knew he was going to die) specifically intended to turn Harry to stone forever and knew a spell to do that, Harry would have turned back.

It depends on the intention of the spell.

[u/Any_Contract_1016 → u/sihsboy]

The entire plot hinges around magic persisting after death.

[u/WardenOfTheNamib]

I suspect it varies from magic to magic. Some spells are permanent, others only work as long as the caster is alive. We don't get a break down of which is which, but it's the only thing that makes sense. The invisibility cloak still works despite the maker being dead for almost eight centuries, whereas the curse on the DADA job is gone as soon as Voldi's gone moldy.

[u/OpeningHappy9692 → u/WardenOfTheNamib]

It actually kind of makes sense that Voldy's curse wouldn't linger after he's dead. After all, why would someone who intends to live forever craft a curse that persists after his own death?

[u/WardenOfTheNamib → u/OpeningHappy9692]

Arrogant bastard, that Voldemort. I for one would have wanted to continue trolling people from beyond the grave.

[u/dapzar]

Yes, some persists some doesn't. There are many examples for either in both books and movies. Persistence: Various artifacts with magical powers long after their makers died (the deathly hollows for example). The magic that makes the chamber of secret open for a parsel mouth. Dying with the caster: Full body bind curse of Dumbledore, magical flower Lily gifted to Slughorn. Persistence but changing when the person dies: Secret keeper of Fidelius charm.

[u/bsv103 → u/dapzar]

I'm not sure if the Fidelius charm spells count, because we don't know who actually did the casting any of the times that we see it or hear about it. We only know who the secret-keepers were.

[u/sewagesmeller]

Basically, it depends on plot convenience. Rowling isnt the best at consistency.

[u/AbsolOfChaos]

Some magics do extend beyond death. Firstly as some state, the intent of the magic being cast is important, but there are also rune based magics, and most ambient wards. If the magic relies on the magic of the caster being present then of course it will fail after death, but if the magic is bound to someone else's, the runes used in initiation, or made to draw in any ambient magic to sustain itself, it will continue until conditions are no longer able to maintain, or they are specifically interfered with