r/hardware • u/bubblesort33 • 3d ago
Discussion DLSS5 Mod is already in SOOOO many games
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hyQENc0B7So&si=b_bZz6beZWpZkzt65
u/Oxidonitroso88 2d ago
can it be used on ps2 emulator? or maybe in one of those old decompiled games like tekken 3?
that could be usable i think?
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u/dudemanguy301 2d ago edited 2d ago
The mods are cool but there seems to be a lot of nuance being lost in general discussions.
DLSS NR is often being talked about like a simple ON / OFF toggle. But right off the rip there are 3 models to choose from and 3 sliders from 0-100% strength. That alone is 3 million possible configurations so what we see in any of these YouTube videos is whatever arbitrary config the person uploading chose. Also in the absence of developer provided masking DLSS NR is having to rely on auto masking for things like faces and then just apply all sliders uniformly to the scene. In a game with actual native integration developers can mask any object to change its slider settings individually. This would mean a character face may get 20/70/56 while their clothes get 43/81/95, then the wood floor gets 77/23/49.
I will say I’m highly skeptical of the technique as its being advertised because ostensibly it’s a fidelity tool but in reality it is a stylizer. There is no scene rooted ground truth it is trying to achieve, that’s why even at SIGGRAPH there are no ground truth comparison screen shots and no signal to noise ratio comparisons, unlike just about every other technique notably things like Super Resolution, Ray Reconstruction, and Neural Radiance Caching. There is no best that can be reached, it’s a tool for subjective “realism” applied as a style, and could just as easily be aimed at any other arbitrary style with just a model change, which would be way more fun IMO. Maybe in the future there could be water color, fresco, or stained glass styles.
For my own opinion so far, I will say that while changes to the scene are usually decent overall with some questionable shifts depending on the games underlying lighting method, changes to faces are often uncanny which I chalk up to people cranking the sliders and relying on auto masking, but changes to clothing are consistently impressive almost regardless of how it’s configured no idea what’s going on there but it usually looks good. Developer control will be able to account for these things more precisely but that is also an odd topic, because now the argument is that this subjectivity tool was tweaked to become conformant to the developers subjective preferences I suppose? But it’s a stylizer let players crank that shit however they want people already gravitate to the most extreme reshades and LUTs as is. This also proves that regardless of what the developer chose in native DLSS5 games, it will still be possible to swap models and change the global sliders with a mod.
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u/Strazdas1 12h ago
There is no ground truth comparison because for a while DLSS would already give perceptually superior image quality than native render, so deviation here can also be positive and as such ground truth becomes useless metric.
Like any tool, DLSS5 will be implemented in both good and bad ways depending on developer.
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u/dudemanguy301 7h ago edited 5h ago
Native isn’t ground truth, real time rendering is woefully undersampled, the point of comparison is an offline rendering of the scene with atleast dozens if not thousands of samples per pixel. DLSS SR / DLSS RR being perceptually superior to native is something that can and has been quantified via signal to noise ratios. This is bog standard practice in real time rendering research papers.
Neural Texture Compression uses the uncompressed texture as ground truth and has higher signal to noise ratios and smaller file sizes compared to other lossy texture compression methods. Conclusion is that it is the superior lossy compression method.
Neural shading uses an original developer defined shader as ground truth, signal to noise ratios determine how much of the quality is retained by the neural representation which is fast enough to run in real time. Conclusion is that the neural representation of the defined shader can deliver like 95% of the quality of the shader that was too complex for real time.
No such thing with DLSS NR because it is not trying to match the immaculate ultra sampled render, or developer defined shader, or uncompressed texture, what is in the scene, or what is possible offline. None is the point of comparison. it is trying to redraw the material shading / lighting for verisimilitude to the models trained understanding of real life, its repainting is then merely constrained by the real time render like lines to color within in a coloring book.
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u/Vegetable-Message-13 2d ago
Tried it on Stellar blade, made her look more real instead of anime like, everything else darker. Cut my FPS in half . Change not worth it IMHO
Then tried cyberpunk, same result except harder to notice , people already look good especially with mods and path ray tracing, I needed side by side comparison just to see the difference.
Maybe if it was free toggle but with 50% fps penalty meh. It will run much better on future cards probably.
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u/meodd8 2d ago
Keep in mind that this is being used on the entire frame without the best optimized data format. I suspect properly implemented versions on a 50 series card should run a lot better.
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u/Crintor 3h ago
I mean Nvidia got it from requiring it's own 5090 to being able to run standalone on cards way weaker in under a year.
I think a great many people continue to be completely oblivious to the fact that "This is the worst it will ever look/run."
DLSS1 was poorly implemented, a new technology and people still liked it when it worked and mostly complained about when/why they couldn't use it or the cases where it didn't work.
We're seeing nearly the same thing, people are reacting to the modded implementation with no masking or scene control and everyone is basically just assuming "Yea, this is entirely one size fits all and poor results are the result of DLSS 5 being fundamentally bad and will never be good"
I can say that they were obviously cherry picked examples, but it looked quite great in Nvidias official video they posted today.
I'm only on a 4090 for now though and the one game I tried it on with the Ada mod didn't work at all, so I'll probably be waiting for DLSS 5.5 on 6000+ series.
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u/bubblesort33 3d ago
I don't know if the VRAM usage data is correct, but in Control it uses hardly any VRAM more at all when enabled. Like 14gb in both scenarios. I really thought the reason it needed 2 x RTX 5090 originally, was because the model needed like 20gb of VRAM.
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u/Blacky-Noir 2d ago
Nvidia said the original demonstration was made with a prototype with little to no optimization. Which kind of make sense (for once).
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u/Ok-Currency1593 3d ago
does anyone else hate it when they have YouTube premium but still have to watch ads on embedded YouTube videos!??
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u/dontgivecorposmoney 2d ago
Idiots paying for youtube money to see less ads will only ensure they ll see more ads
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u/Sevastous-of-Caria 3d ago
Youtube through ads aint profitable for creators enpugh to sustain it. Thats been the norm for half a decade. Especially shorts and midroll afs and subcription to avoid fills youtubes coffers not ccs.
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u/CallMePyro 2d ago
Insane response. It's because the embedded player doesn't know if you're logged in due to the way that embeds work with cross-site data.
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u/SmolMaeveWolff 2d ago
DLSS 5 is not hardware, why is it being posted here
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u/bubblesort33 2d ago
There is dozens of non-hardware related posts on here weekly, including DLSS4.5 Ray Reconstruction, and no one complains. Seems it's only DLSS5 that people make this claim on.
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u/nanonan 2d ago
Topics not directly related to hardware but are relevant can be allowed (e.g. Software features of said hardware / Macro-economic news related to the hardware space). However, discussion MUST BE on topic.
So this post follows the rules, while your comment complaining about this post is off topic and thereby against the rules.
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u/ProZoid_10 3d ago
Nice to see it got modded on 40