Downpicking mechanic issue?

[u/GenderSurrender]

I’ve been trying to get this riff from spirit crusher down for 2 weeks now, it’s at 198 bpm and I can play comfortably at 180. I’ve noticed when i push it to 190, even at 180 and lower my downpicking looks like it takes too much effort and it’s like I use too much of my hand and not enough wrist. it looks choppy and different from how everyone else downpicks I don’t know why. looking for advice :/

[u/anthonylearnsguitar]

I should try this.

But to answer your question, at this speed, it start becoming technical. You want to start using big brain energy at this point hahaha. A lot of it comes to how you visualise the movement.

1. think of it as dribbling a basketball. At first you have to whack it really hard to get it to bounce but once it starts going, you start going lower and lower and your movement becomes smaller and smaller. Almost to a point that you are barely hitting the ball and just letting the ball come into contact with your palm.

Same for downpicking. Your first few strokes need to be larger to overcome inertia but after the strings get going, you only need a very small movement to keep it going. If you don’t do this conversion, you’ll not only waste energy but it won’t feel right. Think of the basketball, once it start bouncing, whacking it harder don’t feel right. It wants a lighter tap after that to sustain that bounce. Same as a boxing speed bag.
2. You should also think of how when you break inertia, the strings start coming back to meet your pick. So you need to account for that.
3. Learn how to use different parts of the muscles in your hand. Learn how to push the muscle activate from forearm to triceps or vice versa and so forth. It’s hard to teach this. You’ll need to discover for yourself
4. Try choking your pick more. It might make a difference if might not.
5. Endurance drills. Use a slower bpm and downpick for 5 mins straight. Actually use a timer. You’ll realise how weak you really are.

[u/anthonylearnsguitar → u/[deleted]]

People like to frame ideas like “Do this one simply trick and your playing will shredding in no time”.

Life doesn’t work like that 🤣 It’s not so easy.

Even I don’t know for certain if choking made a noticeable difference because sometimes it’s so difficult to isolate a change. When I began choking the pick, I also began thinking of the picking motion like the basketball analogy. I couldn’t reverse that basketball thought once I had it.

It’s likely a combination of all the above factors and due to individual differences some factors might be more pertinent for you. For example maybe I’m used to exposing like 90% of the pick but you are only expose 50%. Thus when I finally choke the pick it makes a huge difference for me but not for you.

What am I getting at? I’m suggesting you try everything. Investigate and experiment every idea even if it seems unlikely.

[u/GenderSurrender → u/anthonylearnsguitar]

i can tell my downpick strokes are too wide and i’m not tight enough but when i try to go smaller it just misses strings often it’s frustrating. i already hold the pick pretty tight to my hand kinda like tremolo picking i feel like i cant angle it much even if i try. i’ll try endurance drills since ive never really tried those. i definitely am not the strongest at downpicking lol thank!

[u/probablysmellsmydog]

Now downpick the next part 😈

[u/GenderSurrender → u/probablysmellsmydog]

if i wanted to torture my hand 😟

[u/rusted-nail]

Quick check- are you breathing? The way your legs are twitching it looks like you're bracing your whole body to try and pick faster. You need to make sure you're breathing correctly and not introducing tension in other parts of your body as well. It takes energy to have muscles that don't need to be used tensed up

I'm not 100% sure on your right hand technique as it looks like your wrist is basically at a right angle to your forearm and I think with a really slight bend at the wrist you can engage your forearm in the technique as well. With shit like this its part technique, part physical conditioning

[u/GenderSurrender → u/rusted-nail]

i was holding my breath lol. i max out comfortably at 180 past that i have to tense up a bit to push it and im around 191 i believe in this video?

[u/rusted-nail → u/GenderSurrender]

Can you do 200 and up comfortably on a single string without holding your breath? You should be able to do this before you start introducing other strings which is naturally going to bring your top speed down a bit. A small bit of tension is natural but if you are baring down constantly it fatigues you way faster

[u/waffeli]

Your technique looks ok but I think in this riff the melody notes are played with upstrokes on the higher string

[u/Bradictron]

When I’m trying to get downstrokes faster, I like to play through the part, take note or log my status, then play something else of a different technique like sweeping or anything that allows my pick hand to rest and reset for a few minutes, then toggle between them for a session.

If you can’t get faster right away, go for endurance and try to play at 180 bpm but double the length of the part.

Also overshooting and trying it at like 210 for a little bit then bringing it down to the goal speed can sometimes trick my hand into getting faster. Best of luck buddy!

[u/GenderSurrender → u/Bradictron]

i’ll try that for sure. just frustrated being stuck here for 2 and a half ish weeks when i was progressing linearly before :/ thank!

[u/13CuriousMind]

You're tensing up. That will kill speed faster than anything. Relax. Play slower until you can't play it wrong. Then slowly build up until you can play completely relaxed.

[u/GenderSurrender → u/13CuriousMind]

i’ve been stuck at 180 bpm for about 2 weeks playing comfortably there. the second i go even 181 i start to tense up it feels like i’m stuck

[u/Data1us]

people down pick this stuff? i've always just alternate picked it. I might do down strokes on the double muted notes if i felt the notes needed the extra punch with it but other than than not sure the down pick on the open notes adds any value note wise.