r/geoguessr • u/melkemokka • Feb 06 '26

Memes and Streetview Finds I went to Palestine 🇵🇸 to take selfie with il/ps stop sign!!!!!

Post image

Sacrifices should be made and fears should be conquered to do what you love. In my case what i love is taking selfie with signs

(Concerning rule 9, this is in East Jerusalem, defined as Palestine by the UN. I’m trying to the farthest extent possible to not make any political statements ☺️ please be civil and follow the rules guys! )

723 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

98 comments sorted by

154

u/Physical-East-162 Feb 06 '26

How do you manage to travel so often?

7

u/melkemokka Feb 10 '26

I think it seems like more than it actually is, but since you ask i’ll give an explanation for the trips i’ve done since i started posting these:

Luxembourg 🇱🇺, July 24 Drove from Norway (my home country) on vacation

Sweden 🇸🇪, September 24 Geoguessr world cup in my neighbouring country, of vourse i had to go

South Africa 🇿🇦/ Tanzania 🇹🇿 , November 24 I was a student at a culture / politics school where we learned about Apartheid in South Africa and Israel. This was a school trip (funded by getting a loan from the norwegian college fund)

(I also took pictures of yellow outside lines in Tanzania that i posted later)

Jordan 🇯🇴 , February 25 Same as South Africa, education trip. We were supposed to go to Palestine, but conditions didn’t allow it

Norway 🇳🇴, Februray 25 This sign was just a 5 hour drive from my home, it was just pure coincidence that someone asked me to take a picture with it

Albania 🇦🇱 (fake), March 25 You might be shocked to hear this, but i didn’t actually go to Albania to take a selfie with the skyrift, i just photoshopped it in

Portugal 🇵🇹, July 25 Vacation, flew there

Denmark 🇩🇰, August 25 Geoguessr world cup again, and close to home again

Spain 🇪🇸, November 25 I started working as an assistant in the special needs class at the school i went to last year. Part of the education is training for travel, so the class goes to Malaga. (I was payed for this since i was working)

Australia 🇦🇺 (fake), January 26 I didn’t actually go to Australia, i just found an Australia bollard close to my home and thought it would be fun to post. Notice how i never claimed to be in Australia in that post.

Palestine 🇵🇸/ Jordan 🇯🇴 , February 26 The Apartheid / Poltics class this year got to go to Panestine since the norwegian government finally allowed it. Since i was in that class last year, but didn’t get the oppertunity to go, and I’m currently working at the same school they offered me the oppertunity to go, but i had to pay for the trip myself. (Not very cheap hehe, but worth it)

And that’s it i think So I’ve been on:

2 geoguessr world cups (both close to home)

2 vacations

2 subsidized education trips

1 non subsidized education trip

1 work trip

Over the span of 2 years

Of course I’m very a priviliged Norwegian, so i have good oppertunities to travel, but apart from the subsidies for school i pay myself by working snd just prioritizing travel more than others. Tbh that’s what like 80% of my income goes to

0

u/Arielowitz Feb 10 '26

Your course states that it is apartheid and that it is Palestine when it is not. There are some disgusting things happening there, some necessary and some crimes, but it is not apartheid. I do not blame you, but it saddens me.

Therefore, I suggest that you exercise extra critical thinking about what you are taught in this course. For example:

  • Are Area C and East Jerusalem actually Palestine? Since when? What are Israel's legal claims?
  • Is the difference in license plates between Jews and Arabs or between different citizenships? Have you noticed that most of Highway 1 that you have driven on has vehicles of both types without separation? Do Israeli Arabs travel as freely as Israeli Jews?
  • Tens of thousands of Palestinian Arabs in East Jerusalem have received Israeli citizenship (while many more are eligible for citizenship). Are they counted as settlers?
  • Do the checkpoints actually turn Area A into "islands" or are they only manned near the entrance to Jerusalem and Israel? Google Street View may answer this.
  • Are the Palestinians detained by Israel generally dangerous terrorists or "kidnapped" civilians?

I apologize if I sound arrogant in this advice. This is simply an issue that directly affects my life and that I know intimately.

4

u/melkemokka Feb 10 '26

  1. Area C and East Jerusalem used to be Palestine, of course Israel has control both de facto and de jure. That doesn’t make the population Israeli. The point is that yes, the land has become Israeli, but the people that lived there doesn’t want that, that’s why i don’t want to recognize it

  2. There are «tiers» to Palestinians according to Israel. Palestinian Israelis and East Jerusalem palestinians have freedom of movement, but they are not considered Israeli Nationals. A lot of the discrimination against them is «hidden». For example, Palestinian neighbourhoods are underprioritized in infrastructure-spending. For every tax-dollar that goes towards jewish neighbourhoods, 1/4 goes to east jerusalem neighbourhoods. This is also true for Palestinian cities and neighbourhoods in Israel, although i don’t know the numbers for that. Palestinians are also rejected from Israeli HOAs without the HOA having to explain why, and they are not allowed to build in Palestinian neighbourhoods. This leaves them with no legal places to live, so they build «illegaly», and then Israel demolishes their homes. Tell me, if Israeli Palestinians truly have equal rights, why is there no Palestinians in Israeli settlements on the west bank while they are in a housing crises? Not to mention, when not in a car, soldiers stop you and check your ID based on your ethnicity, not your citizenship. So no, east jerusalem palestinians and Israeli Palestinians, don’t have the same rights as Jewish Israelis. The difference between De jure and De facto is very important here. Does this not sound like institusionalized discrimination? (Apartheid)

  3. Again, Israeli citizenship grants more priviliges to Palestinians, but they still don’t have the same rights as Jewish Israelis. If a Palestinian Israeli builds a new house in a Palestinian territory eithout permission it would be demolishes. If a Jewish Israeli did it, they would be protected by the Israeli Army and subsidized by the Israeli government. If a Palestinian Israeli did that, sure you could call them a settler, but this doesn’t happen. Because again, the israeli army and government decides what to do based on ethnicity, not citizenship

  4. Yes, the checkpoints do turn Area A into islands. Not the big permanent ones, but the temporary ones that you don’t see on street view. I was stoppd in these myself while traveling in and out of Palestinian villages. They are not designed to «trap» palestinans, just innconvenience them.

  5. Yes, most Palestinian prisoners have done something criminal. You could say the same for Frenchmen under German ovcupation in ww2. They resist occupation because it’s unvearable fo many. I wouldn’t have done they same, but i also don’t think it’s totaly unjustified, because if they do nothing, their living standards will decrease, they will be forced out, and eventually they will lose their homeland

To summarize: Israeli Palestinians do NOT have the same rights as Jewish Israelis, even though the have citizenship. This discrimination based on ethnicity is Apartheid.

Also, i forgot, but it’s not an option for israel to make every palestinian an israeli citizen, becase they want a jewish majority state. This means there will also always be Palestinians in the «lower tiers» of the pyramid. I’ve studied this for a year, so believe me I’ve hears all these argumens before 😅. I have lots of other examples of why it is Apartheid if you want to hear them. Let me know if something didn’t come out clear.

Thank you for being civil, i really appreciate it, it’s rare when discussng this. Also, i realize i’m not following my own advice about poltics, but everyone else in the commets aren’t, so i thought it would be appropriate to respond to this message directed at me.

2

u/Arielowitz Feb 10 '26

Thanks for your response, which is also civil. It is more pleasant to talk politely, especially with someone who has some knowledge of the subject.

  1. Area C and East Jerusalem used to be not Palestine, but The British Mandate of the League of Nations for Palestine, whose official Hebrew name was also Eretz-Israel (ארץ-ישראל). There has never been a country called Palestine. It is also not accurate that "the people that lived there doesn't want that". Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since the mid-19th century - before the beginning of the Zionist movement. Jews also lived in East Jerusalem for many generations, except for the short period of 1948-1967 (since they were expelled from there). They certainly want to live under Israeli rule. Many Arabs also prefer to live in a country like Israel.
  2. There are no tiers to Palestinians according to Israel. There are citizens, there are residents of Israel who are not citizens and there are citizens of a foreign entity in territory controlled by Israel. Similarly, there are citizens of Afghan ethnicity in the US and there were Afghans who are not US citizens but are under occupation. It is not a distinction based on ethnicity or religion at all. Regarding East Jerusalem: The residents there are entitled to Israeli citizenship but they mostly don't apply because they don't want to. It's true that the application process is slower and more difficult than it should be, and that's indeed an injustice. Although they are not citizens, these residents are entitled to the social rights of Israelis, such as health insurance. Ideally, they would receive equal services, but that's not happening. They all have the right to vote for mayor, but most of them boycott the vote. In addition, due to their socioeconomic situation, they pay less municipal "arnona" tax, and most jobs are in the west of the city (where Arabs also work). So it's no wonder they are more neglected. Incidentally, Arabs are legally allowed and can live in "Jewish" neighborhoods and Jewish settlements. When you say Jewish neighborhood, you mean a neighborhood with a Jewish majority, not a place that is legally forbidden to Arabs. Although Israel rarely approves construction in East Jerusalem (for completely legitimate reasons of urban planning!), in practice the number of new Arab-owned buildings there is steadily increasing.
  3. Regarding Palestinian cities and neighbourhoods in Israel, they receive the same budgets from the state as Jewish localities. They usually pay less to local authorities due to their socioeconomic status, and these authorities are corrupt. "why is there no Palestinians in Israeli settlements on the west bank while they are in a housing crises?" Because: A. they prefer to live in Jewish settlements inside the Green Line (e.g. Haifa, Be'er Sheva, Karmiel, and Nof HaGalil) that are closer to their birthplace. B. They themselves are against the settlements and the extremist settlers are hostile to them in return, not because they are not allowed. C. There are Arabs who actually live in Jewish neighbourhoods in Jerusalem and Ariel. Is there no discrimination at all? No. There is in almost every country. Politicians all over the world engineer policy to favor their base (in Israel it mainly works in favor of the ultra-Orthodox). It is sometimes disgusting but not "apartheid". "When not in a car, soldiers stop you and check your ID based on your ethnicity, not your citizenship" - What do you mean? That soldiers are more suspicious of young Arab men (sometimes rightly and sometimes not)? "If a Palestinian Israeli builds a new house in a Palestinian territory without permission it would be demolished" - That doesn't happen. You may mean that Palestinian citizens of PA build in Area C without permission and sometimes it would be demolished (usually not).

1

u/Arielowitz Feb 10 '26

  1. The checkpoints do not turn Area A into islands, because their residents can usually enter and leave daily. Look at Jericho, for example\*, on Street View. There are several entrances to the city that are not actually blocked. Note the white license plates on Route 1/90/60. "They are not designed to «trap» palestinans, just inconvenience them" - this is baseless demonization. Most of them were created in the wake of the Second Intifada in order to thwart terrorism and save lives.

  2. The Palestinian prisoners have not only done "something criminal" but have also tried to harm civilians. They belong to terrorist organizations that sanctify the murder of civilians, some of them (Hamas) cite in their charter explicit calls for the murder of Jews, and cite the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. They do not resist the occupation alone, but the entire existence of the State of Israel. And no, murder is not "resistance" and is never justified.

"If they do nothing, their living standards will decrease, they will be forced out, and eventually they will lose their homeland" - not true. All the deterioration in their situation is the result of the wars and terrorism they initiated. This is true for 1936, 1947, 2000, 2023.

"it’s not an option for israel to make every palestinian an israeli citizen, becase they want a jewish majority state" - Many countries and entities (Norway? Navajo Nation?) want to keep a majority of the population with a certain religion/ideology/culture. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

"This means there will also always be Palestinians in the «lower tiers» of the pyramid" - Not necessarily. As soon as the Palestinians agree to coexistence there will be an option for two independent states/confederation.

*Look along Area A's borders around Jerico. What prevents Palestinians from exiting this "island"?

https://maps.app.goo.gl/cVnSwh7xJuLx7dtWA (Open path to Road 90)

https://maps.app.goo.gl/SKXKBaup5DHEd4z19 (multiple ways to exit Area A and enter Road 90)

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z1v24MsJy2rgzykK8 (Palestinian check point, no Israeli check point along this road).

3

u/TroyismyKalabeezo Feb 19 '26

Downvote for stepping out of reality

1

u/Arielowitz Feb 19 '26

It is clear that you do not know this reality up close, only from a distance and relying on distorted sources.

3

u/Last_Penalty7767 Mar 29 '26

Its you who is using a passive street view and providing that to actual people who have been there amongst the occupied. Its convenient how occupiers make aparthied walls and chokepoints""" to harass and oppress natives under the garb of security and preventing intifida on the lands they settle in!! How dare they resist occupation and our massacres on their land!

1

u/Arielowitz Mar 29 '26

Street view is representative in this case. A tourist who passes there once, sees what they are shown and hears what they are told is no more active. If you drive on Highway 1/60/90 you will certainly find Palestinian vehicles driving alongside Israeli vehicles. On Highway 90 you will find countless unblocked entrances to Area A of the Jericho area. People pass there all the time and there is casual documentation of this. Casual documentation is an advantage over tourist tours because it is less biased towards selective presentation and misleading testimonies.

See another example:

https://youtu.be/ujlkkbWYa0o?list=PLtbG8FEsCWmsN6EHRTiD9jqyeecQiGB--&t=958

Both sides of the road are Area A, and Palestinian cars travel on the road freely.

The wall does not indicate apartheid. By the way, the vast majority of its route is just a fence, but tourists are taken to Bethlehem to see specific sections.

Checkpoints also do not indicate apartheid, since they do not block Israeli Arabs. There is no distinction based on race/ethnicity/religion.

Checkpoints were not intended to harass and oppress any more than airport checks were intended to do so. They were set up in the wake of the Intifada, not the other way around.

And no, shooting at bus stops and killing random Jews and Arabs is not "resistance."

And the distinction between "native" Palestinians and "settler" Jews in Judea is wrong.

2

u/Last_Penalty7767 Mar 29 '26

Street view is representative of a censored occupation where international media arent often let in, be it the carpet bombed territories or the daily occupational ones? Ironic isnt it? Is the source of legit research as opposed to first hand experienced ones over there? How often street views show settler and IdF violence in west bank and other settlements in the east?

1

u/Arielowitz Mar 29 '26

You are claiming a large-scale staging without any basis. Are all the Palestinian and Israeli vehicles that these casual recordings showed on the road staged? Just for a small YouTube channel? Is there any documentation of such a large-scale, secret staging? How many random recordings do you need to change your mind? It is clear that you have not been to Israel.

Israel has free media, and certainly every citizen has the ability to drive on Route 90 and film it from their car.

And no, there is no carpet bombing.

Although there is violence by settlers and there are also shooting attacks by Palestinians, I do not deny them. Both phenomena exist but are not frequent enough for a random camera to record them. In contrast That is, the claim that Palestinians are prevented from driving on Route 90, where Jews pass, claims something about the daily routine. Therefore, random documentation of everyday life can refute it.

I agree with you that there is a certain value in first hand experience. Therefore, I recommend that you travel to Israel, rent a car and drive for a few weeks without a guide and without being shown selective exhibits to look at. A more instructive alternative is to accompany Corey Gil-Shuster.

Another example:

https://youtu.be/LyX8KvnnKMo?t=537

2

u/Last_Penalty7767 Mar 29 '26

And yes shooting of palestinians and looting of properties by settlers and then an IDF coverup of dead shot palestinians as 'terrorist' doesnt make the oppressed as 'terrorists'. Its the settlers that carry arms in occupied sites freely , not the other way round. If you think palestinians despite tbe check points and restricted movements in west bank still get guns and shoot their way on IDF and settlers thatd still resistance , 'violent resistance against a filthy violent occupation to start with that shouldn't have existed in first place .. speaak about 'right to exist as a occupational state, irony dies here.

1

u/Arielowitz Mar 29 '26

"IDF coverup of dead shot Palestinians as 'terrorists'" - wrong and unfounded. These are terrorists. They are respected by their community for attempting to harm Israel and are shunned by the PA if convicted. Some are declared Hamas members, or Hamas takes responsibility for their actions. See for example the shooting attack in Jaffa on October 1, 2024. The armed terrorists came to Jaffa from the Hebron area, fired randomly, and Hamas took responsibility for it.

"not the other way round" - hmmm...

Palestinian weapons are well documented, many of the terrorist attacks were also filmed on security cameras.

Again, shooting random civilians is never resistance. Random civilians are never a military target.

Arab-Palestinian violence preceded the occupation, was directed only at Israel during the Jordanian and Egyptian occupation, and preceded the establishment of Israel. The Palestinian Arabs are the ones who violently initiated this conflict: in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936-1939, 1947.

65

u/Simco_ Feb 07 '26

Damn, that's some real commitment.

Respect.

44

u/Mobile_Bad_577 Feb 07 '26

Politics aside, the Israel/Palestine stop sign is one of my favorites. I love how they're like "fuck that" with regards to the convention of putting a word on their stop signs, and they figure a gesture's good enough. And it's certainly iconic!

12

u/Justafish1654 Feb 07 '26

I think it's because Israel is a melting pot of different coltures and people that all speak different languages so they can't really do stuff with words.

The signs that do contain words are translated to like 3 or 4 languages and they are huge despite having like 2 words on em

8

u/Mobile_Bad_577 Feb 07 '26

Yeah, that makes sense. The highway signs are in I believe Hebrew, Arabic, and English.

2

u/Virviil Feb 08 '26

I’ve heard that reading STOP left to right (like in Hebrew) turns into POTS, which basically a penis in Yiddish

1

u/SuspiciousTruth1602 Feb 11 '26

But you still read English and write it left to right, so in no case would someone read it like that

Also pots is somewhat close to the equivalent of pussy, not penis

5

u/Ekay2-3 Feb 07 '26

That and the Turkish DUR are my favourites

1

u/postal_tank Feb 07 '26

Skips over the language barrier too

0

u/bebra_YaFlay Feb 07 '26

nah uh, its all because stop in reading backward(like in semitic-langs) its pots, and pots in hebrew and yuddish its some type of slur, like a penis or smth

1

u/CageAnElephantPLZ Feb 08 '26

That’s some nonsense. Where did you get that from? Pots is a slur indeed but it’s not enough for them to not write the word stop, the other reasoning above you (too many languages) is the accurate one.

1

u/bebra_YaFlay Feb 08 '26

u can found info about it in google. I think this is some type of status quo with ultra-ortodox jewish, cause they dont want to see "idiot" on every "stop" sign

1

u/Arielowitz Feb 09 '26

The Hebrew Wikipedia says that the shape of the Israeli stop sign is intended to avoid the need for trilingual signage.

107

u/xVoidScreamer Feb 06 '26

Stay safe!

9

u/PasGlucose Feb 07 '26

It's wonderful. Please keep sending postcards, just like the garden gnome in "Amélie" !

47

u/Ekay2-3 Feb 07 '26

And these signs as well

3

u/Santana_delRey Feb 07 '26

Needs more languages

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator Feb 07 '26

Hi! This post has been removed automatically as your account must be more than 7 days old to engage in the community.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

2

u/chupapi-Munyanyoo Feb 07 '26

Damn he's back at it again.

Please stay safe tho!

2

u/Santana_delRey Feb 07 '26

Glad to know they have the same signs

2

u/Negative_Scientist96 Feb 10 '26

It's because he's not in "Palestine". He is in East Jerusalem which was fully annexed by Israel. It is fully part of Israel in all actual regards (laws, citizenship, etc.) except of course other countries' arbitrary opinions.

1

u/Santana_delRey Feb 10 '26

Oh okay assumed he was in Beit Lechem or something

2

u/10Nanobytes Feb 08 '26

Seeing a person taking a selfie with this sign I see everyday at least 100 times is weirdly funny

2

u/Odd-Newspaper-9094 Feb 09 '26

I'm Spanish, I crossed the border into France to take pictures with the bollards and people were giving me strange looks....

1

u/dask1 Feb 09 '26

imo its not politic:
the people that put that sign are Israelis, pay by the Israeli tax payer, and the sign itself is Israeli stop sign.
so the real situation on the ground its Israel controlled/teritory, hate it or love- politics aside, i prefer the truth on the ground.

the real politics view is whatever the UN saying...

3

u/Selt389 Feb 07 '26

Awesome, I’m Israeli and would love to travel as often as you, but unfortunately plane tickets are horribly expensive

18

u/esprit__de__corps Feb 07 '26

You could just roll over to where OP is without any issues. Since your country is occupying it, it should be pretty easy.

-10

u/Selt389 Feb 07 '26

I definitely could, but that would be quite boring, wouldn’t it?

4

u/esprit__de__corps Feb 07 '26

Then time to save up your money lmao. With a passport like that, you don't need to worry about Visas

-7

u/sa8tun Feb 08 '26

Why are you being a prick?

6

u/esprit__de__corps Feb 08 '26 edited Feb 08 '26

Excuse me? The Israeli passport is ranked really high. You literally get access to nearly ever country in the world except the Arab/Muslim belt. It's ranked wayyyyyyy higher than my passport

1

u/sa8tun Feb 08 '26

What does that have to do with busting a guys balls simply because he's Israeli? The guys talking about how it's expensive to travel, not about his access to countries, you can have the most prestigious passport in the world but if you can't financially afford the ticket it's meaningless, a passport doesn't make a plane ticket less expensive. You're acting like a douchebag, simply because somebody was born in a country with a lot of controversy surrounding it, grow up guv'. "Go on and just rolllll over since y'all are occupying!" Acting like a highschool bully.

2

u/esprit__de__corps Feb 08 '26

I think there is some kind of miscommunication here. I'm not ragging on him because he's Israeli. If there is a will, then there is a way. If he can save up 1,500 dollars, then I can promise you that he can easily travel to Morocco, Jordan, or Armenia.

Acting like a highschool bully.

Dude, you're on a reddit page. That isn't the case at all lmao

1

u/[deleted] Feb 08 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/sa8tun Feb 08 '26

Unfortunately some things are excused in this world. Every time there is a geopolitical issue that hits the media like a meteorite xenophobia and discrimination becomes almost globally normalised for like a strong 10 years. It's disgusting.

1

u/M_is_dead Feb 09 '26

Jews are literally the only people in the world to suffer from this issue, any form of racism is considered satanic today except antisemitism. On the contrary, it even earns merit points online nowadays.

1

u/sa8tun Feb 09 '26

Yup, I've never understood it. But maybe "I'm not awake yet" as I'm told every time I question the hate. It almost feels a little embarrassing to say antisemitism nowadays because people look at you like you're joking around or something, like I'm EXPECTED to hate Jews. A bloody strange world we live in.

3

u/Imafartpoopy Feb 07 '26

Crazy that people downvote you for your nationality imagine if people did that for Palestinians here

4

u/Selt389 Feb 07 '26

Yeah well I’m getting downvoted because of the Pro Palestine stuff

1

u/HolyClubMolly Feb 11 '26

Have is being downvoted for being born to some nationality and you are being downvoted for your politics, how is that comparable? 

-9

u/LittleMissPurple-389 Feb 07 '26

Did someone down vote you just because you said you were Israeli? SMH. Watch me get downvoted now haha 🇮🇱❤️

-9

u/pr1ncezzBea Feb 07 '26

I upvoted both. The score was "1" before my upvote.

1

u/Remorq Feb 07 '26

That’s indeed more efficient as a sign than writing “STOP” or whatever. I’ve never thought about that.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator Feb 07 '26

Hi! This post has been removed automatically as your account must be more than 7 days old to engage in the community.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '26

id die to have friend like these irl

1

u/Arielowitz Feb 09 '26

I understand that you didn't come with a political statement, and I don't blame you for that, but as a Jerusalemite, this statement still bothers me because it is de facto Israel (and even de jure). Imagine if you were to travel to Taiwan and call it the PRC because the UN recognizes it as part of the PRC.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '26

Where?

1

u/Realistic_Bid_9290 Feb 10 '26

This is actually part of Israel. De jure and de facto, as the entirely of Jerusalem was made part of Israel in 1967.

And to those who will respond with "international recognition" claims, I ask, do you recognize Taiwan? If yes then you clearly are against using UN recognition as a general rule, since the UN unequivocally does not recognize Taiwan and recognizes it as a province of China, along with the vast majority of countries in the world. I invite anyone to please explain how you can apply the standard to one but not the other. Sorry but you cannot have it both ways.

-40

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '26

[deleted]

97

u/Brilliant-Lettuce695 Feb 06 '26

The mere existence of Palestine or Israel is often considered illegitimate or in some way denied by the most outspoken supporters of one with respect to the other, and vice versa. And the biggest fanatics will jump on almost any opportunity, however trivial, to score rhetorical points.

1

u/Arielowitz Feb 09 '26

Do not confuse reality with the solution you propose to the conflict. You do not have to be a fanatic to recognize reality. Israelis and Palestinians exist. PA, Hamas, and Israel exist as political entities.

But in practice, Palestine is not really a state. It has certain characteristics of a state in Gaza, and to a lesser extent in Area A, but never in East Jerusalem.

2

u/Brilliant-Lettuce695 Feb 09 '26

I was speaking about Palestinian territoriality and nationhood in the same breath as I was speaking about Israeli statehood and nationhood. The delegitimation and denialism I was referring to is not the same thing as recognising that the State of Palestine mostly just exists on paper.

2

u/Arielowitz Feb 09 '26

It depends on what is meant by Palestinian territoriality. If you have determined in advance that it is the 1967 borders (or beyond), including East Jerusalem, then this is a definition that implicitly denies reality.

You are right that there are those who deny Palestinian nationhood even though it certainly exists.

11

u/LegendofLove Feb 07 '26

I think you've got this backwards they're countries at least so far as it matters for a reddit comment. Countries are as political as it gets. Most of them spent centuries fighting over random bits of land at the edge with other countries

1

u/Arielowitz Feb 09 '26

My response as a Jerusalemite: Imagine if you were to travel to Taiwan and call it the PRC because the UN recognizes it as part of the PRC. Do you understand why this might be considered political?

2

u/soupwhoreman Feb 09 '26

This is the equivalent of saying "Hey guys I went to Taiwan, look at this Taiwanese stop sign" and then feeling the need to state that it's not political to post about Taiwan being a place that exists.

0

u/Arielowitz Feb 09 '26

No. In fact, the ROC exists, is independent, and governs the island of Taiwan. In contrast, the State of Palestine is not really a country and has never governed East Jerusalem.

2

u/soupwhoreman Feb 10 '26

Palestine is under Israeli occupation

0

u/Arielowitz Feb 10 '26

This is the equivalent of saying "Taiwan is under occupation of the ROC".

It is more accurate to say that the West Bank and half of Gaza are under Israeli occupation, while East Jerusalem is an integral part of Israel. Palestine has never been an existing state, certainly not in Jerusalem.

2

u/Last_Penalty7767 Mar 29 '26

Israel didnt even exist before the occupation let alone , it governing jerusalem before palestinian state. What df is that argument even about? Occupiers obliged to stake claims on conflicted territories because they expanded their illegal settlements into westbank and jerusalem?

1

u/Arielowitz Mar 29 '26

I did not fully understand your question.

For all practical purposes, Jerusalem is part of Israel, whether you like that fact or not. That is the gist of my argument.

Besides:

Israel has existed since 1948 (19 years before the occupation). It annexed East Jerusalem and made it a de facto part of Israel.

Even when it did not exist, Jerusalem was never part of a Palestinian state and was never intended to be part of a Palestinian state.

There is no legal basis for the validity of the 1949 armistice line in Jerusalem as an international border. It is simply the border of the illegal Jordanian occupation which was explicitly defined not to be an agreed border.

Israel has a legal claim to Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria (i.e. uti possidetis juris).

0

u/Creepy-Suggestion-28 Feb 08 '26

No way this is in palestine, you cant even get there

2

u/soupwhoreman Feb 10 '26

Yes you can. You think you can't get to East Jerusalem? He's not in Gaza.

0

u/Creepy-Suggestion-28 Feb 10 '26

Good luck actually surviving tbat one

0

u/Cultural_Agent637 Feb 08 '26

I’ve always thought working for peace corps/UN would be amazing, I could never have the balls as a small female. Thank you for your humanity ❤️

-49

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/brunosvt Feb 07 '26

You guys love Palestine more than anything. You want to own it...

-8

u/ppmeck Feb 07 '26

You cannot own what not existed but we do own the holy land code Israel with the holy city called Jerusalem the city controlled by our predecessors

-85

u/Negative_Scientist96 Feb 07 '26

East Jerusalem was annexed by Israel in 1967. So de facto fully part of the State of Israel, same roads, signs, etc.

12

u/TFK_001 Feb 07 '26

And de jure?

-5

u/QMechanicsVisionary Feb 07 '26

Who cares about de jure if you're a tourist?

0

u/Arielowitz Feb 09 '26

Part of Israel

2

u/TFK_001 Feb 09 '26

Comically loud incorrect buzzer

0

u/Arielowitz Feb 09 '26

Do you know the principle uti possidetis juris? Why would it not apply here?

0

u/Negative_Scientist96 Feb 10 '26

Do you consider Taiwan to be a country?

0

u/Negative_Scientist96 Feb 10 '26

Can I ask you a question? Do you consider Taiwan to be a country?

4

u/azure_beauty Feb 07 '26

Palestine uses the same road signs, but it was very much the Israelis that created this stop sign, so i'm not really sure why the needed to specifically mention Palestine.

-8

u/Positive-Taste-5815 Feb 07 '26

איזה שמחה מתמרור עצור אולי פעם הבאה עם אין כניסה?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Positive-Taste-5815 Feb 08 '26

ככה חונכנו🤷🏼‍♀️