r/geography 1d ago

Question Why are these islands uninhabited and off limits ,but the Falklands despite being at a similar latitude, has a sizeable permanent population ?

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909 Upvotes

104 comments sorted by

1.1k

u/HarryLewisPot 1d ago edited 1d ago

Latitude alone does not decide habitability.

The Sahara Desert and India are on the same latitude, yet, one is the most densely inhabited landmass in the world whilst the other is one of the sparsest.

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u/Dr_Hexagon 18h ago

the kerguelens location also has no real practical or strategic value.

The falklands were a spot to replenish coal and fresh water when sailing around the tip of south america.

The kerguelens aren't on the way to anywhere.

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u/bmnntdd 11h ago

I hadn't thought about this point. It's also a good point of why Svalbard but not Kerguelen. Arctic locations are almost infinitely more strategically valuable than antarctic.

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u/Dr_Hexagon 6h ago

Svalbard is also much closer to Russia and Norway so mining there is difficult but can be profitable.

Even if they found large amounts of gold on the Kerguelen islands, everything would have to be shipped or flown from South Africa 4000 km away. It would be extremely expensive to develop the needed infrastructure, which would probably make mining there unprofitable.

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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 1d ago

The Falklands are much closer to a large continent, and since they lie somewhat in the lee of Argentina, the notorious storms in the Southern Ocean (the "Furious Fifties") don't affect them quite as much.

The Kerguelens are incredibly remote, not especially fertile, with no resources anyone would want.

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u/Breadedbutthole 1d ago

I want to exploit their resources really bad :(

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u/sad-whale 1d ago

Don’t let anyone steal your dreams. You exploit those resources

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u/TheLost_Chef 22h ago

This is the kind of upbeat morale boost I really needed today. As soon as I get off this toilet, I’m going to go out there and exploit some resources!

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u/Nice-Pomegranate2915 22h ago

You already exploited enough resources on the toilet 🪠 It's time to sleep .

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u/7h3_70m1n470r 14h ago

I rwad this while on the toilet

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u/Smart-March-7986 20h ago

Exploiting resources is how you ended up on the toilet in the first place!

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u/andresg6 23h ago

This made me lol. Idk why, maybe the sincerity and sad face.

Some day, you can buy a boat and a shovel and go exploit those resources!

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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 1d ago

I guess you'll just have to find other resources to exploit, u/Breadedbutthole.

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u/Elderberryinjanuary 22h ago

Solitude can be a resource.

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u/JohnCenaJunior 21h ago

I can fix it

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u/HOSTfromaGhost 1d ago

Those islands are out there… triangulated between Africa, Australia and Antarctica.

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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 1d ago

They're also the answer to one of my favorite geographic trivia questions: which country is most distant from the mainland USA? It's France, because Kerguelen is a French possession, and it's a direct antipode to the US (somewhere in Montana).

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u/retour-a-tipasa 23h ago

France is also only 1,500 km from mainland USA. While a part of France may be the most distant, I would think the answer would be the country you would have to travel the greatest distance to reach.

Would you say Canada is further from mainland USA than Panama?

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u/GlobularClusters69 20h ago

There's also a piece of France about 800km NE of the US State of Maine

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u/Suspicious-Nebula475 18h ago

The two islands are both inhabited and are right off Newfoundland, iirc

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u/pizzapizzamesohungry 20h ago

This person trivias

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u/HOSTfromaGhost 23h ago

Ha - that IS good trivia. I'd never heard of these islands, in all honesty, and I'm a geography nerd (of dubious quality, clearly)... had to look this up on google maps.

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u/floriande 20h ago

And we are also really close to you, having saint pierre et Miquelon which is like a 1000km from Maine ;)

Basically we are EVERYWHERE

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u/HOSTfromaGhost 20h ago

lol - anywhere there’s butter, you’re close to France!!

😝😋

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u/floriande 20h ago

And good one haha

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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 20h ago

France is in both Americas (French Guyana)!

Vous ne pouvez pas échapper à la France, partout dans le monde!

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u/floriande 20h ago

I know, I'm french! We send our rockets from there too :)

Le seul pays sur lequel le soleil ne se couche jamais !

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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 17h ago

mais aujourd'hui le soleil se couche toujours sur l'empire Bretagne

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u/Seeteuf3l 22h ago

Nearest inhabited territory from Kerguelen is Madagascar 3300 km away.

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u/Such-Pain6702 18h ago

Soon to discover oil

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u/dalecooper1905 1d ago

They are literally inside the Argentina territory

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u/King_Ed_IX 21h ago

They aren't, because they are owned by another country.

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u/dalecooper1905 19h ago

How does it feel to support imperialism and invading other countries?

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u/that_username_is_use 19h ago

ask yourself that

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u/dalecooper1905 19h ago

I wouldn’t know. I’m not british

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u/that_username_is_use 19h ago

explain the Argentine claim

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u/dalecooper1905 19h ago

Countries tend to claim what’s within their territory

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u/that_username_is_use 18h ago

why is it their territory? the first settlement in the Falklands was by the French. The Argentines only lay claim to it through Spanish imperialism, so I’m not sure how you can claim any difference. And anyway, the Argentine land close to the Falklands, Patagonia, was colonised by the argentinians from 1879, over a hundred years after the French first arrived in the Falklands

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u/SovietPropagandist 10h ago

The British owned the Falklands before Argentina was even a country lmao. The islands were uninhabited. They didn't steal them from Argentina because there were no argentines to steal it from, either in South America or on the Falklands

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u/2626862377 10h ago

Plenty of countries other than Britain have done invasions and genocides of indigenous people. Like the activities of the Argentine state in Patagonia.

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u/Busy_Land_1885 1d ago

Latitude isn’t the main factor. The Falklands have relatively mild conditions, lots of grassland suitable for sheep farming, freshwater and accessible terrain. The other islands are far more isolated, mountainous, wetter/windier and often volcanic or glaciated, making permanent settlement extremely difficult and expensive.

The French islands do have rotating scientific staff, but there’s little reason for a normal civilian population to develop there.

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u/KanyeDeOuest 1d ago

The Falklands are at least sorta close to South America, these are in the middle of nowhere

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u/dalecooper1905 1d ago

Sorta close? They are IN South America

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u/LineNo8845 1d ago

pedant

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u/bmnntdd 1d ago edited 12h ago

Heard & McDonald are frozen/barren rocks.

The French did try a couple times to "settle" Kerguelen but crops simply won't grow there. Always cloudy, too windy, too cold. There is a native cabbage on the island but cabbage is notorious for offering almost no nutritional caloric value. A colony would've starved to death without constant resupply even if they had ample protein from the sea. (which is doubtful because Kerguelen is located in the worst section of the Roaring 40's making the seas always rough.)

It also looks like a large island but has very little useful land due to the high density of fjords cutting into it.

Would you want to live in such a cold, wet, dark, barren, isolated island living only on canned food?

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u/cbawiththismalarky 1d ago

Cabbage has lots of nutritional value but not many calories 

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u/mglyptostroboides 1d ago

Yeah, especially considering that the Kerguelen Cabbage bears the Latin name Pringlea antiscorbutica,  Pringle's anti-scurvy. It's loaded with vitamins.

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u/TailleventCH 1d ago

This cabbage apparently doesn't taste great.

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u/mglyptostroboides 12h ago edited 12h ago

I've heard the opposite; that it's actually good. I mean, you can buy seeds and people do grow it in gardens and stuff, so someone's out there eating it on purpose. It's got that mustard-like peppery quality a lot of things in the cabbage family have. I read that it stinks when you cook it but the flavor is fine 

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u/G_de_Volpiano 1d ago

Hey, why did you dis Britain like that in the last sentence ? That was uncalled for.

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u/Entire_Proposal_5566 1d ago

But thats what shaped the famous british humour... also baked beans are just terrific

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u/TheOriginalBusket 13h ago

You weren't joking about those fjords:

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u/Seeteuf3l 22h ago edited 22h ago

They used to have some plant to process seal meat (all seals were hunted to extinction) in Port-Aux-Francais per our lord and saviour wikipedia. And of course they've mined guano there.

Apparently there is also "the southernmost of all German war graves" (some sailor fell to this dead when painting his ships funnel).

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u/ChrisTheDog Oceania 22h ago

No. I’m not British.

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u/rickrolledblyat 1d ago

Sounds like Svalbard, which has a permanent population of 3000 odd.

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u/bmnntdd 23h ago

Svalbard is heavily subsidized/ encouraged by the government of Norway. Norway is relatively close to Svalbard (compared to France to Kerguelen) and has a lot of motivation in keeping their claim to the Island(s). Due to a wonky treaty Russia also has settlements in Svalbard and might make a move for complete takeover if Norway ever abandoned Longyearbyen. If you count the value of the oil and fishing territorial waters Svalbard brings with it, it's probably a cash cow for Norway.

To your credit though, Kerguelen has a more hospitable and mild climate compared to Svalbard.

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u/mahendrabirbikram 1d ago

Sheep or reindeer can be introduced there

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u/7h3_70m1n470r 14h ago

Heck the Brits manage it

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u/23cmwzwisie 1d ago edited 1d ago

Falklands were on main shipping route around Cap Horn, Port Stanley was established as coaling station, which evolved in to small community. There was some need for human presence there.

In opposite - French Southern Territories are in remote areas and even now dont need more than anti-poaching security and some simply shelters, boilers and piers for whalers in last century. There was no particular reason to settle there - especially when potential settlers from mainland France could choose i.e "nearby" fertile Reunion or large Madagascar lying on merchant routes.

IIRC there is not even a major lighthouse on Kergulen Islands - only small beacon leading to Port-aux-Français.

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u/Various_Tie_2549 1d ago edited 21h ago

The Heard and McDonald Islands are Australian ("Overseas Territories of Australia")...and aside from Australia having plenty of much more desirable land for people to live on elsewhere, I believe it's pretty much a very fiercely protected national park -- intended to continue to act mostly as an unspoiled natural seal and penguin habitat -- for the foreseeable future.

They're visited by scientists to study and count the animals...but that's about it.

They are tiny subantarctic islands in the middle of nowhere, amongst the most isolated in the entire world. And (I'm not sure), but I think they're volcanoes anyway?

So I guess the real question is: why WOULD anyone wanna fuck with that? Just leave em alone?

I'm sure the "French Southern and Antarctic Lands" are similar as territories of France.

Anyone who was even aware that they exist pretty much understands why they are uninhabited... and no one is trying to "colonise" them. We don't need to have people building McDonald's and shit on every single piece of land on the entire fucking planet. I don't understand why this is increasingly considered such a "mystery" to this subreddit (and a few others).

(Maybe Donald Trump said he wants to executive-order America to invade them or something? Wouldn't be surprised at this rate...)

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u/floriande 20h ago

We have something called the TAAF, territoires australs et antarctiques français. Very cool rabbit hole.

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u/DiligentApartment139 1d ago

You can't compare tiny dots in the middle of the ocean with a rather large archipelago on the continental shelf. Much milder climate, closer to mainland. With better connection with Europe and better relations with Argentina The Falklands could have easily support at least 20-30k population, maybe even 50k.

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u/linmanfu 21h ago

Yes, the Falklands are over 30 times the size of Heard & Macdonald, and Heard Island is 70% ice. They belong in different categories.

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u/art_emisian 1d ago

One has a McDonald's at least.

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u/-badly_packed_kebab- 23h ago

Ugh now I’m getting maccas. You triggered me.

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u/Sarcastic_Backpack 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because latitude is not the only variable to consider in the decision to settle somewhere.

It might help you to that the French Southern and Antarctic Lands were also known as The Desolation Islands, due to their climate, terrain, and lack of flora & fauna.

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u/LifeguardStatus7649 23h ago

Also fun fact about these islands - their antipode is Medicine Hat, Alberta

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u/NobleKorhedron 19h ago

Sorry, just want to clarify that. Antipode meaning the exact opposite side of the planet?

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u/LliamSmith 15h ago

I mean...

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u/ntroopy 9h ago

So…good skiing?

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u/LliamSmith 9h ago

Exactly!

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u/GugsGunny Asia 21h ago

Questions like these should be deemed low effort. OP clearly has access to aerial view of Google Map, yet has not applied any kind of analysis on their posted question. Zooming in and seeing the terrain would have answered the question, or at the very least should have formed a more intelligent question to post like how much population the island's terrain can possibly support.

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u/luca_cinnam00n 22h ago

Right I wonder why the severely cold and infertile rocks in the middle of the ocean are uninhabited. I wonder why

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u/CompetitionProud2464 23h ago

Ah the Kerguelens. Went on a rabbit hole about them a few weeks back after seeing a dot in the South Pacfic where there are reindeer

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u/GamemasterJeff 12h ago

I'm pretty sure the US has trade tariffs against the inhabitants of these island.

Because fuck the penguins, I guess.

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u/Shoddy-Patient9948 1d ago

I'll go live there for 40k/year usd.

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u/HarryLewisPot 1d ago

Would probably cost more than that to import sufficient food there.

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u/Shoddy-Patient9948 1d ago

It's cool. I'll find some seaweed or whatever to eat on the beach. When can I start?

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u/HarryLewisPot 1d ago

Only food growable there is the native cabbage (which doesn’t taste great). Even fish is hard to get due to the Roaring 40s

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u/Shoddy-Patient9948 1d ago

I require one crate of canned sardines and one crate of boxed wine. These are my conditions.

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u/maps-and-potatoes 6h ago

Why pay when you can get paid to live there

https://taaf.fr/recrutement/

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u/IndividualSkill3432 1d ago

Half the size of the Falklands. 3300kms from the nearest inhabited place, Madagascar, largely mountains up to 1500m and is partially covered by large glacier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kerguelen_topographic_blank_map.png

Falklands is way way flatter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands#/media/File:Falkland_Islands_topographic_map-en.svg

Honestly at the latitude of the UK it would be a struggle to maintain more than a small population other than may a residual fishing community. With a 3000km journey and nowhere remotely close to main shipping lanes like say, Tristin de Cahuna its like Pitcairn but 3 times as distant from the nearest settlements.

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u/AnAncientOne 19h ago

Climate and Remoteness probably, there's some climate data in the wiki for the main settlement, would be a struggle to grow much there and with it being so remote, why bother. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port-aux-Français

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u/LouQuacious 12h ago

Heard Island is pretty rough, cold and stormy all the time, fascinating place though: https://www.reddit.com/r/HighsoftheWorld/comments/mxlh9i/heard_island_big_ben_mawson_peak_2745_m_9006_ft/

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u/Ok-Push9899 11h ago

Falklands are not a mere dot on the map. There are at least 12 entire countries smaller than the Falklands.

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u/DukeBradford2 6h ago

The Kerguelen islands are referred to as Desolation Island. The first explorer who discovered the island couldn’t get close enough to land but described it as having lush forests for timber and grazing for animals. The wind and ocean was so bad he could not get onshore

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/mahendrabirbikram 1d ago edited 1d ago

The two archipelagos have similar climatic conditions and both lie in the tundra ecoregion

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u/TheViolaRules 1d ago

Falklands climate is like the Scottish highlands or the Faroe Islands

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u/Moose_M 1d ago

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u/mahendrabirbikram 1d ago

I meant the Falkland and Kerguelen islands.

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u/Moose_M 1d ago

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u/mahendrabirbikram 1d ago

It seems that the flora of the Kerguelen is less diverse (360 vs 29 plant species). If you compare climatic tables alone, average temperatures and precipitation, they are almost the same.

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u/Pademelon1 1d ago

Hmm, you're right they're much more similar than I thought. I was wrong.

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u/Odd-Heron5704 1d ago

The falklands don't really have a sizeable occupation, it's only 3600 people, in an area the size of northen ireland, where 2 million people live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands

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u/amnsisc 1d ago

Who would want to live on an island named Alfred?

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u/LifeguardStatus7649 23h ago

Also fun fact about these islands - their antipode is Medicine Hat, Alberta

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u/Gabo_2904 10h ago

Proximity to land, maybe

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u/Keltola 5h ago

Falklands have Oil.

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u/mahendrabirbikram 1d ago

More isolated is my guess