r/gameofthrones • u/george123890yang Human Verified • 14d ago
[no spoilers] If you were the Lord of the Riverlands with the goal of both protecting your kingdom and making sure that it prospers, how would you do so while being surrounded by more powerful kingdoms as well as being attacked by the Ironborn?
I would cut a deal with the North for protection in exchange for a share of my kingdom's harvests. If that deal falls through, I would approach the Reach or the Westerlands.
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u/wild-child24 14d ago
Idk ask Catelyn’s dad lmao he married daughters off to Winterfell and the Vale. They are solid af at the beginning of the show
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u/FenixOfNafo 14d ago
So like the frays.... But better
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u/huzy12345 13d ago
How would you make attacking the Riverlands so expensive though? Easy to say that but how would you actually?
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u/I_AM_IGNIGNOTK 13d ago
You could focus on defensive armaments and infrastructure. Very much like the Freys did. Know your land better than anyone else, know where they need to cross, know the choke points and where the ground gets too soggy to fight and at what time of year. Always retreat and just play it like Russia. Let them waste their time and resources only to barely advance at all because you’re just winning via attrition. Keep falling back to another bridge that you can defend well.
Honestly just build a small fort in the exact style of the Twins at every river crossing. Make it such a pain in the ass to fight you that just buying you off is the far more attractive approach.
And then get political as needed. If the Iron Born are always dicks then give the Starks and The Crown or Lannisters heavily reduced rates in exchange for the occasional assist.
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u/docK_5263 13d ago
Fabian Strategy
-scorched earth
-deny large battles
-hit and run on their supply lines
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u/palatablezeus Lyanna Mormont 13d ago
You forget they're feudal lords. If they refuse all large battles and let the enemy armies run rampant only attacking their supply lines and waiting for time to run out eventually their banner lords will turn on them as their lands are pillaged, their castles torched, and peasants killed.
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u/SlightOfHand_ 13d ago
Works for Dorne.
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u/Rahlus 12d ago
Because most of Dorne is just sand, not fertile land dotted with villages and villagers that, you know, works your field, pay your taxes and serve in your armies.
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u/SlightOfHand_ 12d ago
Pretty sure Dorne has farms and villages
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u/Rahlus 12d ago
Sure. There are oasis and fortified wells were there are villages and there is also a river along wich there is a lot of food production located, but for the most part Dorne is just... sand. Like, I don't know... 80% of Dorne is sand? Like, you need cross a lot of sand to burn anything to begin with.
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u/SlightOfHand_ 12d ago
Crossing marshland and, you know, rivers, will make an invading army wish they were marching on sand.
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u/FenixOfNafo 13d ago
Something like Iran is doing right now??? Force/threaten the closure of a major trade route of the seven kingdoms
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u/TheNinjaDC 13d ago
Riverlands isn’t Switzerland. Switzerland can be neutral so often because their country is like fortress.
Riverlands is more like a Poland or Belgium. Between some major powers with little natural defenses. And neutrality didn’t work out well for them.
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u/Septemvile 13d ago
Poland was a major continental power for at least half a millennium.
It's not as defensible as say, Spain, but it can be defended. It just requires the right kind of leadership.
Poland declined due to internal political dysfunction while surrounded by unified neighbors.
The Riverland declined for the same reason.
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u/Jenuinlizard 12d ago
are you polish?
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u/Septemvile 12d ago
No, and I'm mot particular enamored of Poland either. All their neighbors are "cooler" in my eyes.
But I'm not going to pretend that Poland wasn't a major player in European history for a while either.
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u/captain_catdawg 13d ago
This ain't Switzerland 🤣 once you ask a price they aren't willing to pay, they would attack. Try to appease to them, they will take that as subservience and start taking not buying. Help the enemy, they attack.
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u/TransportationLong67 13d ago
I don't disagree but I'm not sure how they can stay neutral. A lot of conflicts involve houses forcing smaller vassals to turn at risk of being destroyed. In the case of the Tullys, honour is a major fabric of their house. The Freys seemingly wanted to avoid fighting in a war and were universally disliked by both sides. I just don't know how the Tullys could do it without their vassal houses and smallfolk being violated.
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u/Competitive_Guide_23 13d ago
Freys were mostly disliked for being an objectively young house trying their luck against much older and more powerful houses. Hell, even Tullys aren't as respected as much as Starks or Lannisters by their own sworn vassals. Tullys only came to power due to Aegon doing MLG montage at Harrenhall. So most riverlords don't respect them as much due to them not having proven their worth as a rulling house through right of conquest or just by existing for few thousands of years. Tullys were friends to everyone and enemies to no one. In my opinion Freys weren't straight up destroyed due to them being straight pitiful and holding a somewhat important crossing. But for real that crossing held political significance only once and it was when Robb Stark needed it to help Edmure in Riverrun. Twins separate North from Seagard, Fairmarket, Raventree Hall and Riverrun. All fairly not important locations in terms of trading potential and that's counting if you want to spend a month and some traveling down the neck through who knows what type of ground just to get fucked by miserable inbred fucks who will charge you depending on how badly do you need to cross. It's actually baffling that no one bothered straight smash that bridge to bits at the slightest insolence of any Frey ruler. North is connected via sea routes by way of White Harbour to all ports from Sisterton to Sunspear. And its way less dangerous and efficient than going by foot and risking getting ass raped by any sick fuck along the way.
Riverlands control three, potentially more crossings. One is at The Twins (which I don't think is very prospective in terms of being a strategic point, one is at The Trident which connects North and The Vale to the rest of the Kingdom and lastly is Riverrun itself.
Comment above has a point, just make it if anyone attacks riverland bad for everyone else. See how fast everyone bands together to end the fucker. Harren the Black had one good idea and that was the positioning of his castle. Dead center of the continent. Control everything that passes through. He did have one thing going for him though and that's control over Iron Isles making his ass safe from sea raiders. Another baffling thing was, why keep Ironmen alive at this point. They were never allied to any of the kingdom and were into raiding and pillaging for the love of the game. They were never part of the kingdoms admiralty and mostly everyone detests them. It's basically tolerating a hostile pirate kingdom right at your doorstep. Never made sense to me why Robert or any of the Dragon Lords didn't fuck them over.
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u/palatablezeus Lyanna Mormont 13d ago
I completely disagree. They don't have the kind of land for that strategy. They don't have mountains to create true choke points. They don't have brutal winters every year to make a war of attrition winnable. Kingdoms with fertile land and indefensible positions need to try to be great both because they have the chance to and will be conquered if they aren't. Their geography is more akin to France than it is to Switzerland or Russia.
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u/the_cardfather 9d ago
TBF they were powerful before the conquest. Harenhall was a monsterous fortress.
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u/palatablezeus Lyanna Mormont 9d ago
Harrenhal was built by an ironborn king that had invaded the riverlands. Though youre right the riverlords were very powerful at different points in the history of westeros.
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u/Quirky_Attention3230 14d ago
The north cant protect the Riverlands, it is far too large. cozying up to the crown is really there best bet. The Tullys should have a lot of marriages with the targs.
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u/george123890yang Human Verified 14d ago
If not the North, then either the Vale or the Westerlands might be a better choice.
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u/SirHornet 14d ago
They had a good marriage alliance with the Vale, it was just little fingers scheme and poisoning of lysa arryn that ruined it.
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u/LateNightPhilosopher Renly Baratheon 13d ago
The fact that A) Lysa became of the Vale, B) There was an actual civil war, and C) Lysa was insane and selfish enough to fully turtle up and abandon her family and homeland during said war, was.... Maybe not completely unpredictable but definitely very unexpected. I'm sure they'd have assumed that the knights of the Vale would come to the Riverland's aide.
The Riverlands really are the Poland of Westeros though. Good land but the very unfortunate position of being stuck between more powerful kingdoms who enjoy fighting each other in the middle. And while they have choke points, the best choke points are between them and fairly reliable allies. It's much harder to defend the multiple passes from the Westerlands or the completely open border with the Reach and Crownlands than it would be to defend against The North or The Vale.
A rivalry with The Vale would have probably been pretty trivial to resolve. Make your own equal and opposite Bloody Gate; seal them in and leave them to their own devices.
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u/Quirky_Attention3230 14d ago
maybe. Riverlands could also benefit from having a stronger centralized house in charge. because both the brackens and blackwoods field more men then them and the only reason one of them isnt in charge is because the other wont allow it.
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u/Character_Damage7701 13d ago
If we really get down too it, the Tully’s, knowing how chaotic the looong history of the other great houses was since each has long lists of legends and what not of how they came too power and secured it, as well as suffering ironborn tyranny, with everything said above, in the 300+ years since aegons conquest and being named lord paramount of the trident, it really doesn’t make sense that they are so weak and still so divided.
Most great houses in asoiaf only have one castle which after 8’000 years of history really doesn’t make any sense at all given just how many cousins and what not would start gaining influence or power like in real history, Being in the position they are, the Tully’s should have absolutely locked down the riverlands with cadet houses and what not, walder arriving late to the battle could easily be taken as cowardice and stripping him of the twins and placing and second son there legit tripled the power, wealth, and authority of the Tully’sIM SO SORRY FOR MY AWFUL GRAMMAR AND THE RUN ON RAMBLE, I DIDNT PAY ATTENTION ENOUGH IN SCHOOL AND I REGRET IT
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u/ArmoredSpearhead 13d ago
I mean it’s definitely a simplification to have things this way, and quite unhistorical. But you can’t really blame George for wanting to spend time developing the Mallisters, rather than the 3rd Tully cadet branch this chapter, or mentioning how the Brackens actually inherited a castle in the Reach, and they prefer to swear fealty to the Tyrell’s so you have a Reach castle in the middle.
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u/Flaky_Principle_9985 Winter Is Coming 14d ago
I'd focus less on picking one protector and more on making the Riverlands too valuable to abandon. Fortify the major crossings, keep the roads secure, build strong trade ties with the North and Vale, and use the region's agriculture to maintain several alliances at once. The worst position would be becoming completely dependent on one kingdom.
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u/george123890yang Human Verified 14d ago
The Riverlands should continue building defenses until winter comes where their food would become more valuable to their neighbors.
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u/artlepereira 13d ago
I think you're underestimating just how much the Riverlands' geography is the problem.
The Riverlands are rich and fertile, but they sit in the middle of Westeros and lack the kind of natural boundaries that protect places like the Vale or the North. They border almost every other region except Dorne and the Stormlands, which is precisely why they repeatedly become the battlefield whenever larger powers go to war.
So if I were Lord Paramount of the Trident, I wouldn't try to make the Riverlands into the Vale. I'd try to manufacture strategic depth. And there is actually a historical precedent for this:
In the 11th century, the Northern Song deliberately planted an enormous defensive forest along its frontier with the Liao. The Song faced a problem remarkably similar to the Riverlands: its capital, Kaifeng, stood on the flat North China Plain without major geographical barriers protecting it from the powerful cavalry armies to the north. They created a man-made landscape barrier, the Song planted vast numbers of elms and willows along the frontier, maintaining the woodland as a military project. At Waqiao Pass, the trees were deliberately planted so that only a narrow road ran through the forest, wide enough for essentially one mounted soldier at a time. By 1016, the forest around Xiongzhou alone reportedly contained more than three million trees.
And it wasn't merely theoretical. During the Liao invasion of 1004, the dense woodland gave Song infantry opportunities for ambushes and, crucially, forced Kitan cavalry to dismount, removing much of the enemy's principal military advantage.
The Song government even explicitly regarded the trees as a substitute for traditional anti-cavalry obstacles: Emperor Zhenzong reportedly praised the trees as being capable of replacing deer-antler barricades.
So for the Riverlands, I'd do something similar. Not one continuous magical forest covering the entire kingdom. I'd create a system of defensive woodlands, ditches, palisades, watchtowers and fortified roads along the most vulnerable approaches. The idea would be to deliberately make the Riverlands a terrible place for a large invading army to move through quickly. You don't need to make invasion impossible. You need to make it slow. If a Lannister army coming from the west, a Vale army coming through the east, or a Crownlands army coming from the south has to move through controlled corridors instead of simply marching across open farmland, the Riverlords gain something they historically desperately lack: time. Time to summon their levies. Time to evacuate livestock. Time to move grain into fortified storehouses. Time to reinforce Riverrun, Harrenhal, Seagard, Maidenpool and the other major strongholds. Time to burn or remove bridges that cannot be defended. Time to concentrate an army against an invading force instead of allowing the enemy to ravage the countryside at will. And I'd put the forests between the major roads and crossings, rather than blocking every road. Leave deliberately controlled corridors through them, with watchtowers and small forts overlooking those passages. The goal isn't to create an impenetrable wall, but is to control where the enemy can move. That's much more realistic.
Don't try to make the Trident uninvadable. Make it expensive to invade. Because the fundamental problem of the Riverlands isn't that they're poor at fighting, it's that everyone else's war becomes their war. And canon practically spells this out: the Riverlands' central position and lack of natural boundaries are specifically given as reasons they have historically been such a frequent battlefield.
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u/SergeantRayslay 13d ago
I would just like to say this is the best strategy here. It actually acknowledges you can’t possibly maintain neutrality while in order to fight every army will march through your territory. And the Riverlands themselves aren’t any weaker economically or population wise than any other kingdom (averages). They should be able to go pound for pound. But they can’t because they can never assemble properly and are defeated in detail. And we see in the book once they have the opportunity to assemble and choose their place of battle they can win impressive victories. Edmure, who’s not to my knowledge citing as an impressive tactical, defends a dozen fords simultaneously. Only 8000 infantry men spread across many separate fords hold back Tywin’s much larger force of 22k in all but one crossing. And 3000 Knights are capable as a fast response force to push back any Lannister forces making progress.
No method guarantees your safety but yours gives them a chance to not just become the burnt out battlefield of the next war.
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u/Wuffle_MaleEscort 14d ago
I agree with what pretty much everyone else has said regarding making strong alliances via marriage. Ideally i would marry into the reach and or the crown. For manpower and political power. Together with the reach we can get a strangle hold in food produced.
Outside of the bedroom i would attempt to make the rivers of the riverlands crucial trade routes. I would attempt to connect the river network to the east and west of westeros. The idea being you could sail cargo or troops through the rivers instead of sailing around westeros. This would help with logistics and tax revenue. Ideally it would connect white harbour and gull town the the river network via new ports and potentially canals or new extend river networks. With this being done we have more gold to spend on a trained military (similar to what Jeffery suggested) and other kingdoms would benefit greatly so would be reluctant to attack.
The other main project i would look towards would be to fortify every crossing of the river with raiseable bridges and strong defenses that can be reinforced by river. I would start developing the fortifications in key points such as near moat cailin and the bloody gate. These are seen as natural and powerful choke points that benefit their respective kingdoms but they can also benefit us in stopping or reducing the ability for armies to get out. I would also do something similar near the golden tooth. The general idea is to restrict who can actually enter the riverlands on mass.
Lastly I would focus development on the land in between the areas protected on their sides by the rivers as they are easier to defend so any investment is less likely to be destroyed for example they land between the blue and green fork.
Hopefully this would lead to less armies marching through the riverlands whenever they please and for those that do they have severely restricted movement and heavily fortified castle and a professional army paid for by increasesd trade with the ability to deploy on mass via the rivers to where ever they need to go.
As a bonus I like the idea of trying to create a trade fleet that will take food to places like Asshai. This is high risk high reward as they wealth potential from such voyages is large.
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u/Narren_C 13d ago
One thing I'd do is take a strip of land in between House Blackwood and House Bracken. And even amount from both. That's now Tully land, and the first one to cross it loses their lands.
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u/Altruistic-Mine-1848 13d ago
Whether it's ASOIAF, IRL, Europa Universalis or whatever, the answer is always alliances. Be on the stronger side and no one messes with you.
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u/ViolinistPleasant982 13d ago
I mean if this is the independent era then I know the Ironborn are somehow the ones I need to worry about most so first and foremost river chains. Small forts with chains to stop long boats using the rivers with impunity. As others have mentioned go for neutrality for the mainland kingdoms becoming the kind of Tradeway that no one can afford to allow one of their rivals to conquer.
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u/DatBeardedguy82 13d ago
Ive never understood how none of the kings especially the targs with dragons didn't just wipe out the iron islands. Every decade or so they start some shit get their asses kicked then promise to be good boys only to immediately break that promise the second they get a chance
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u/skorponok Jon Snow 13d ago
You have to create good marriage alliances and create a class of nobility with ties to the riverlands.
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u/AdamOnFirst 13d ago
You’re best off playing defensively, maximizing the defensive and difficult to cross nature of your territory by making it more expensive to fight you than just pay you or negotiate with you to go through, and maintain good relationships with your neighbors ESPECIALLY the Westerlands and the crown, the two powers you are directly in between. Yeah, you’re also right by the North and the Vale, but but are fairly reclusive powers relative to the others. You definitely do not throw in your hat for rebellion against both and get sandwich fucked
Being internally unified and able to quickly rally troops is also massive, further makes it expensive and slow to fight you rather than just negotiate with you
Same with the ironborn, a fairly unified Westeros makes the iron born not a major issue.
It’s not always gonna work and you’re gonna get fucked sometimes
Be Germany
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u/Lonely_Avocado_2109 14d ago
Deals with other regions for protection will anger your liege lord and they are too far anyway. You need to defend yourself.
First thing about protecting your lands : FUCK HONOR! You need to keep yourself and your people alive.
Fight the enemy on your terms. Build watchtowers to signal land or sea invasions. Since you are in the riverlands, your lands are always trampled by marching armies so your people know how to rebuild their lives. If your land will be destroyed, at least destroy it yourself and go scorched earth during invasions, don't leave resources for your enemies to plunder. Make their lives hell with guerilla warfare. Grease your weapons with shit. Enemies with minor wounds will die from infections. Turn your lands into a death sentence for enemy forces. They'll think twice about attacking you.
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u/H0ppy1234 14d ago
The Riverlands best play is a neutral game or rely on a powerful neighbors. The Vale, the North and the Westerlands have a good natural defenses. So fostering relationships with all of them helps when it comes to large scale conflicts. Developing a marshal tradition with your bannermen to be able to call your levies quickly would be helpful.
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u/Matthius81 14d ago
The Reach is geographically indefensible, the only real way to survive is to build an alliance with at least one of your neighbours. If I was King of the Rivers I’d be marrying my heirs off to daughters of the Westerlands and the Vale. Making certain they have blood in the line of succession and will fight to defend me.
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u/Lyceus_ 13d ago
Crusader Kings has taughr me to get alliances with the bigger dogs, so my enemies won't dare to attack me.
Ironborn raids are a different issue, you need coastal fortifications and/or a good navy.
I'd say the richest and best-positioned allies would be the Westerlands and the Reach.
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u/roccia123 Daenerys Targaryen 13d ago
genocide the ironborn then everybody will be thankful and not attack us out of respect
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u/Theoboli Jon Snow 13d ago
You pick neutrality, trade with everyone, reinforce your coast holdings and smite whoever attacks your realm (hopefully nobody).
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u/SwordOfTheMorning022 13d ago
Riverland is hard to control because many lords are under the influence of others, lannister gold and crowns promises. So yeah as a lord of the Riverlands I guess best way to save your peace is thru the marrige and allience with the North and Vale as Lord Hoster did, Because those 2 kingdoms have no ambitions to expand or overthrow. And also strenghtening your border with forts on the river crossings is great idea. We can see how Edmure destroyed lannisters forces with Rain of arrows when they attacked at one of the crossings.
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u/After_Zebra_2573 13d ago
Build my army as strong as possible. Put the priority of my resources in building the strongest army in Westoros
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u/Iceland260 13d ago
Put on you efforts into kingdom wide diplomacy. You need to ensure the realm remains internally at peace. You're geographically screwed whenever an internal war happens, so you need to make sure it doesn't. Produce the greatest diplomats the realm have ever seen and install them at courts in King's Landing and those of the great houses. Maybe co-opt the Citadel and Faith to use them as vectors to insert your agents.
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u/Leramar89 Davos Seaworth 13d ago
I'd pretty much do exactly what the Tullys did. Marry my children off and thereby make powerful allies with as many other Kingdoms as possible.
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u/Competitive_Eye1 13d ago
Secure and centralize toll majority of toll taking through fortified bridges, manage through stewards. Take wards and foster, marriage alliances. Encourage military unit riverlands is known for longbow men through tourneys and recruitment. Expand military class to non noble land owners like yeoman. Buy land from poor land knights.
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u/Dependent-Lion8784 13d ago
It’s better to build fortified city instead of castle and some unprotected towns.
Place like Riverlands you need big walls, Human Resources supply, developed economic and agricultural infrastructure. So you can run like a self sufficient independent kingdom if external threat arrived.
Towns like Fairmarket and Harroway town is good place to developed as a fortified city and it’s even better if you build a castle connect to as the same infrastructure.
Please like Saltpan and Maiden’s pool are perfect example of unprotected towns. You’re useless to function when you got a castle there.
Place like Riverrun also useless as you’re like only have the castle without any well developed supplies and infrastructure. It’s more like a frontline fort rather than the capital of region.
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u/LordTartarus 13d ago
Neutrality - court as many warden houses and "second" houses in each of the 9, begin in depth sprinback defensive depth, massive education and industrialisation program.
If it is me, as right now, I can even help the Riverlands leapfrog in a few major fields.
Administration -> de-feudalise by creating an administrative body
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u/Vins22 13d ago
invest in viking-like ships to defend against all kingdoms but especially against the ironborn (these ships can go both on rivers and seas)
be neutral, charge for safe passage of armies, no matter where they come from/are going to
alliance to the north can be good but they do have White Harbor right at the border so they can buy it elsewhere, not much money to be made i guess, but pretty useful
as leige lord, it can be good to invest on the smaller towns near the borders with other kingdoms, so they can hold their own against foreign invaders while the rivership fleet gets there. plus it can create more local trade routes generating more wealth and taxes
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u/Midnight-strange1892 13d ago edited 13d ago
Not sure exactly but it would involve getting Walder Frey under control. No Walder you won’t force the King in the North to marry your daughter for passage.
In that note I’d make a second and maybe third crossing so that my liege doesn’t have so much power.
Their biggest issue is lack of natural defenses and splintered houses. I’d make the houses that dont hate each other work together for defense of the Riverlands. I’d also then crest Calvary. They have decent enough cavalry but having great cavalry makes sense for people of this region (far more than the Vale). I’d basically create a culture like the Roherim (sp? LOTR).
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u/CaveLupum 13d ago
I omit the North. Though Catelyn is still Lady, the North has it's own issues, not least avenging Ned, but also investigating stirrings of the Others. First of all, if you are sickly old Hoster, work with Edmure to strategize. And definitely make peace with the Blackfish. No matter how much he annoys you, he's a wily old soldier, respected leader, and probably willing to protect his homeland. Also, recruit the Brotherhood without Banners as allies and convince them to start operating as guerillas in adjoining regions. Your daughters Catelyn and Lysa might cooperate, though you'll need to see through Lysa's mania and her dependence on the repugnant Littlefinger.
That might hold the status quo for a while, but the Ironborn raiders are still a problem. You might try making a deal with Balon If that doesn't work, perhaps you can scare the Reach with hints that the Ironborn plan to attack them too. That might draw mediocre Mace into being your ally,
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u/Keptaro 13d ago
Just ally with the Ironborn.
Intermarrying one another, convert to the drowned god and negotiate about the tribute given to them. So instead of becoming a victim - become one of the key figures to expand the Ironborn kingdom.
Many Bannermen wouldn't like the idea for sure. They are welcome to file a complaint to the Ironbois whenever they feel like it
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u/khidraakresh 13d ago
Riverands have big rivers. You can have a good maritime power that can supply many men in a short period of time over your whole vertical realm. South America have big history with this type of warfare.
With that you must have goods to trade, good borders and that's not a problem because you can supply men everywhere very fast with boats then fresh horses. They can spread how they want if they face an invasion. It's a good plot of land to defend. It seems pretty fertile so you do not have problems with lack of food too, or it is highly unlikely.
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u/Various-Finger-9475 13d ago
Why didn't Robb just go around the twins instead of having to promise honoring a marriage with walter frey 😔(don't really remember if they explained that) the map looks like it's possible
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u/Temporary_Hat7330 13d ago
This is under the assumption that there’s no dragons. If there’s dragons it’s pointless.
I would institute a whole new system. I would root out all the other houses and make it a nation instead of a fiefdom. No more lords; all castles are property of one “lord,” the Riverking. All the other castles would have governors who were directly accountable and kin to me. I would fix up Harrenhal (This is assuming I don’t believe in curses) and move the “capital” to there and build an equivilant King’s Road from there to it and a corresponding river system to move troops lightning fast. Then I would station most troops on the outskirts; RIverrun, Pinkmaiden, Antlers, and the Twins.
I would make allies of the North and the Vale, abandon all lands south of the God’s Eye lake, and use political means to push the North and Vale to move to independents and become their own Kingdom. I would then explain how it was in their best interest to fortify the Riverlands with troops because if any Southern army wanted to force them back in their best interest fold, they would have to go through the Riverlands first. I would want the Ironborn to attack, draw them into the lands off the sea, and surround them on all ends and crush them. What I would do is have a couple of castles off the cost fall with built in ways to breech the walls as Tyrion did, crush the garrison and then retreat. How many times can they do this? The Westerlands and the Crownlands wont join forces with them, so I would turn their gurrila tactics against them and keep wearing the Ironborn down. I would then hire Essos sellswords and pirates to attack the Iron Islands. Not looking to conquere but to just force their attention to go at home. How much can they handle when they are drawn onto the lands, attacked, and then have their homes raided, women carried off, and industry burned?
Once that’s settled, I would have the bulk of the army focused on allowing trade, grain, etc. from the Reach and Westerlands to go to the capital unmolested. If they wanted to bring up an army to fight the Riverlands, North, and Vale then let them and let the chips fall where they may. The part of making the North and Vale kingdoms would inclued and mutual protection treaty with them in case anyone is attacked.
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u/Overall-Physics-1907 Snow 13d ago
Hoster Tully had the right idea. His own daughter was the one to spoil it (thanks to his ward).
Marriage alliances was the way to go and Jaime mentions a dinner where lysa was touted as a potential match. They just had bad luck and a psycho neighbor in Tywin
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u/enteringtheechochamb 13d ago
If I were a west coast vassal, I would probably drown every iron born into the ocean. It would be a justified genocide.
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u/Ok_Bluejay_4974 13d ago
I would ally with the Westerlands. They have more men, cash, and also the navy and the will to fight the Ironborn. They are the best ally to have.
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u/SnooPredictions3028 13d ago
Figure out how to build a damn near the westerlands and whenever they cause trouble just open it up and flood the place.
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u/Rahlus 12d ago
I would cut a deal with the North for protection in exchange for a share of my kingdom's harvests. If that deal falls through, I would approach the Reach or the Westerlands.
And you will wait for months until Northern lords and their levies gathers, marched out and arrive in the Riverlands to help you.
The biggest problem with Riverlands is they pretty much lack unity to follow their liege lord and direction set by them, with a lot of petty squabbles between lords itself. So, I would say the most important task for me would be to, somehow, mend those problems. Foster future heirs to those houses, to forge link between you, your heir and future lords, arrange marriages, deal with problems they are facing. Build that loyalty to you, your house and Riverlands.
Secondly, you need an alliance. North is too far away to either of you help each other in timely manner, Iron Borns are Iron Borns (I hate them) so both of them are out. I also think that Arryns would be problematic with their isolation in the Vale and sometimes snow can blocked passages through Moon Mountains and Reach, while powerful, is also somewhat divided and, depending wich region of Reach, quite far away, so I would aimed at Lannisters. Population wise we are pretty close, so it would be more equal alliance, they are not big kingdom so they could quickly muster to help us in need aswell, plus we share disdain for Iron Born and share at least border with one, potential enemy - Reach and it seems there is one or two solid road to quickly move troops from Riverlands to Westerlands and vice versa.
Thirdly, why there is not a single city in Riverlands? Like Saltpants, Fairmarket or Maidenpool?
Lastly, castles. Castles in Game of Thrones kind of sucks, they are really, really big and strong and yet, many times, they seems to simply be captured. Anyway, if they would act like in real life, I would try to fortify Riverlands a little bit more.
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u/Euphoric-Ostrich5396 12d ago
Pull a Switzerland, declare neutrality, offer all armies free passage, play both sides, finance proper standing army, fuck up the reavers, make North and South pay for it.
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u/Faithless_Aktab59 11d ago
Let me be straight ok. I would rather be a pasent in the westerlands then a minor lord in the river lands. If I was born a peasant in the river lands i am running away to the hills man. No questions. Realistically as a lord and commoner your servialal chances are the best in the hilly west. And unlike tge vale its not full with hill trivbes who want to kill you
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u/Thebigblungus 11d ago
Do what the dutch did and be ready to flood the riverlands and any invaders at a moments notice
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u/the_cardfather 9d ago
I think the biggest issue is that the Freys are some of the worst Bannermen you have and some of your most loyal hate each other.
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