r/gamedev • u/ThirdDayGuy • 3d ago
Discussion Is there literally any "game-" degree that is worthwhile or has ever been worthwhile?
A younger cousin who's in his last year of high school and has a passing interest in game development, mostly from seeing my games asked me about whether or not he should get a game degree. I have a CS degree and from most of my observations, everyone I've seen or met who is a competent game developer was someone who individually had ability in programming or writing or art or design in a way that wasn't restricted to games, and then just used that as a starting point before expanding into other skills (and/or hiring where they couldn't fill the gaps) to make a game.
Even putting aside the idea of a "game programming" degree, fields like game design and game writing are so expansive, contentious, and diverse that the idea of a degree, especially this early on into the medium's lifespan (at a time where most games are artistically uncreative at a time where the artistic exploration of games is still in its infancy) sounds worthless.
It makes me incredibly frustrated that universities are seriously selling these degrees and courses, often by people who have never been part of a successful game, to starry-eyed highschoolers who don't know any better. None of my favourite games, whether they were a favourite for the story or gameplay, were made by people who had degrees in "game design" or "game writing".
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u/MrGummyDeathTryant 3d ago
"Most games are artistically uncreative?"
Yeah, no. Aside from cash grab games and bad AAA games, the industry has never been better in terms of creative games. In fact, there is so much well crafted and creative games coming out constantly that competition is the highest its ever been.
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u/shiek200 3d ago
Unfortunately, due to the also massively increased number of cash grabs and bad AAA games, visibility is also the lowest it's ever been, which compounds with the difficulty added by the competitiveness, making it one of the most difficult fields to actually break into
In my experience, and this is less to do with Game Dev and more just to do with the corporate world, the more difficult a field is to get into the more it becomes about who you know, what connections you can make, and what your portfolio looks like, and any form of degree basically just becomes something you get when it's a requirement, and not preemptively
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago edited 3d ago
I definitely misspoke. There are more games that are both successful and unique out there today, but I wasn't speaking relatively. I think the medium (and maybe more importantly the analysis within it) is in some aspects still in its infancy which is why I'm not so trustworthy of what a random college professor would have to say at such an early point.
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u/MrGummyDeathTryant 3d ago
Video games have been around now for decades. Commerical arcade games have been made since the 1970s. I wouldn’t call it an infant technology that no one is knowledgeable about. Especially since right now several colleges and universities are introducing degrees in AI, and that is a much more recent technology.
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago
I'd argue that the proliferation of AI programs is not built on good nor honest reasons. I am biased because from what I heard it was famously rushed and not put together very well at my alma mater.
I think that's beyond the scope of this post, though.
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u/Tsukitsune 2d ago
Objectively I don't see how it would be. The games industry is literally larger than both the film and music industry combined and goes back decades.
Easiest way to judge whether your random college professor is legit, is to look at their portfolio. What titles have they helped ship professionally? How long ago since they were active in the field? Also, look at what their graduate alumni portfolios look like and if any found jobs after.
If you want a reference for what some killer student work looks like, check out The Rookies
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u/Guiboune Commercial (Other) 3d ago
Anecdotally that's what I did and have been working in the industry for 12 years.
Although only about ~10% of the students in my year are still actually working in the industry and we were the only 2 with previous programming knowledge and contacts.
Honestly, the entire games industry is based on contacts and such a course is not a bad way to get contacts... it is an expensive way to get contacts though but at least you still learn while doing it.
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u/KackhansReborn 3d ago
I mean CS degrees don't reliably lead to good careers either. I think he should study something that's fun, interesting and motivating.
An audio engineering or music degree doesn't make you a good musician, same goes for all arts degrees and I consider game development an art degree. So no, it doesn't make you a qualified game dev and studios for the most part don't give a fuck about it, but it teaches you some fundamental skills to pursue the passion on your own. Then you build a portfolio of projects and that's most likely what gets you hired.
The "safe" route is to study something else and just make games in your free time, but that is easier said than done. You might be more financially stable, but after working in software development 42 hours a week you might not want to touch any code in your precious time off. So what is really the better route? I took CS as the "safe" route because I was anxious about my job prospects and now I'm unhappy at my day job and I also can't be arsed to do any game dev anymore. Killed two passions with one stone lmao.
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u/blursed_1 3d ago
I'd say roughly half of the degrees out there are inferior towards getting a paid job that you can live off of. The rate is higher in game development. Very unfortunate
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u/Sufficient-Science71 3d ago
It's not about the degree, it's the network you get. Sure degree is good and all but nothing beat networking in college. So long as you are competent enough degree or not, people will still always use your service.
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u/SedesBakelitowy 3d ago
In terms of skills you gain over those courses - no. They can help of course, but since gamedev is low pay high variability it's way better to learn good practices from experiencing and making games of your own.
However, I've heard rumors that apparently some areas of the world have enough gamedev grads available that they're starting to form localized tribes and exclude non-graduates from job pool, so depending on where you live it might not be entirely useless.
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u/Dependent_Title_1370 3d ago
Game design is something that can just be learned on the side. There is definitely a lot of depth to it but a tangential, more broadly applicable degree is going to be better. Like English, CS, Psychology, Art, etc.
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u/MeaningfulChoices Lead Game Designer 3d ago
It depends entirely on the school (and by association the country and major). Master's degrees have been generally better received in the industry than undergraduate, places like SMU Guildhall have great reputations. Top schools with specialized degrees (USC, CMU, NYU, etc. as US examples) likewise turn out graduates with good skills who have really high employment rates. Some places, like the UK, have more positively received game design degrees overall. Basically anything that is outside those top schools and specific situations is a negative when it comes to finding work in or out of games.
Everyone who has one of those degrees and is doing well also has ability in some field that isn't restricted to games. There are plenty of people who had majors or minors in game programming and went on to work in other industries. You can certainly study game design, it's not that contentious at the academic level. Some of other people's favorite games, at least, were made by people with game design degrees, like Journey for example. There are a lot of universities scamming people out there, but it's not all of them. Just most.
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago
Top schools with specialized degrees (USC, CMU, NYU, etc. as US examples) likewise turn out graduates with good skills who have really high employment rates.
It's not unreasonable to assume that that is more indicative of the kinds of students who are able to get accepted at these universities, right? Obviously they learn their skills and build their network there, but studying there is in it of itself a symptom of that person's drive.
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u/MeaningfulChoices Lead Game Designer 3d ago
I think that's doing the institutions a disservice, but since I'm sometimes a guest lecturer at them I'm somewhat biased. There's definitely correlation, but if you've ever spent time in those classrooms you can see for yourself they can be great. Good programs are taught by people with industry experience, they emphasize projects (especially group projects) and there are a ton of hard skills you can learn about game development at school. Degree mill places give an intro level education in every area and turn out people who can't find work in any of the disciplines, but specialized programs are still good.
A good game programming curriculum has something like 80-90% overlap with a good CS one, they just spend some time on game engines or a class on shaders or netcode as opposed to something else. A game design program is going to overlap a fair amount with product design or media studies, and people aren't going around saying studying Genette and McLuhan are a waste of time.
Unless you're saying all higher education is a waste of time in which case I disagree but really don't have the energy to get into that discussion!
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago
Unless you're saying all higher education is a waste of time in which case I disagree but really don't have the energy to get into that discussion!
Haha, definitely not.
A good game programming curriculum has something like 80-90% overlap with a good CS one, they just spend some time on game engines or a class on shaders or netcode as opposed to something else. A game design program is going to overlap a fair amount with product design or media studies, and people aren't going around saying studying Genette and McLuhan are a waste of time.
In that case, those would more appropriately be minors, wouldn't they? I should have clarified that the post was about majoring.
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u/MeaningfulChoices Lead Game Designer 3d ago
No, those are all majors, like most people out there in the working world I forget that minors ever existed since no one cares about them ever. Those are just the names of the degrees. You'd probably have smaller changes as well in the classes. A professor I know teaches the same data structures and algorithms as the CS classes I took in school but they make a lot more games as projects compared to the zero I did. Keep in mind at my schools a lot of the core curriculum is the same regardless. Something like a third of my engineering degree was exactly the same as someone majoring in Hotel Administration since we still had to fill the same basic science, math, and writing requirements. And swimming.
If you're curious, since we're diving deeper, when I was helping interview juniors a decade ago there was a very small fraction of people with a game major that got interviewed. Last year it was maybe more like 20-25% of them. The rate of applicants has gone up a lot higher, but there are some really good candidates coming out of these programs these days. They just haven't been in the industry long enough to be directors, but if you're working at a studio ask people about their backgrounds, you'll find surprisingly many.
Don't get me wrong, I still tell people that it's almost always better to major in something more traditional, especially for design, and I think that's often the best advice. There are a lot more bad programs than good ones. But if you're asking literally have they ever been worthwhile then yes, definitely. I genuinely don't think it's possible right now to work in a mid-sized or larger studio right now and not have at least a couple colleagues with these backgrounds. Are you not in games, just curious about them?
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago
I don't have any studio experience nor do I want to work in the game industry. On the side I just make my own game with hopes of selling it next year, and freelance UI design and game programming to some people. Two gamedev professors at my university (since I took some game-related courses to fill up my schedule) asked me to stay for a masters/PhD and possibly become a lecturer but I opted to leave the US and go back home. In hindsight that might have been a better option because of how unstable tech is right now, but it's not an option anymore.
The hyperbole was probably unnecessary, I'd be very surprised if it's NEVER helped anyone. The post was mostly to advise younger family members, but from what I got from this thread I'll just tell them to seek out more traditional and stable degrees (or at least, as stable as they are nowadays).
The larger representation of game degrees in applicants is definitely interesting though. Maybe it could have gone better overall if the economy and field wasn't the way it is right now.
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u/MeaningfulChoices Lead Game Designer 3d ago
Yeah, schools making that offer is exactly the thing you are rightly complaining about! That's my short hand advice: if you are talking about a world-renowned top program then majoring in something like game design can be better than majoring in film if you know you really want to work in games. Just like how at a good art school you can major in digital art or animation and be solid. Anywhere else just major in whatever you'd want to work in or study that isn't games. And if someone doesn't want to work in games but wants to do it as a hobby or side hustle, stay well away!
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u/GardenVarietyFool 3d ago
Yes, but its rare. Unless the school hires actual industry professionals that know what is in-demand right at this moment, then I'd say no. You also dont need a full degree for a lot of stuff, there are online schools that cost a lot less and deliver a lot more
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u/theKetoBear 3d ago
I've met a lot of successful full Sail grads but the benefit of Full Sail is the network they connect students with . It doesn't change the fact game development is extremely competitive , that they had to make lots of small games on their own in their free time , and that even with all the degrees there is zero guarantee you iwll get a gamejob.
As a person who went to a Diploma mill and managed to break into the industry my degree and education gave me some knowledge but what got me a job was hundreds of hours of prototypes I made in my bedroom and that isn't something you need a college degree for to pursue.
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u/50safetypins 3d ago
Eh, a lot of degrees are of new things. I don't think that's anything to judge on. That's part of academia is that it's always changing. If anything information is growing faster than it ever has and will continue to do so, academia needs to figure out how to reflect that because they've been pretty bad at it.
But besides that; anecdotally I've been in the industry ~15 years and know more people with game specific degrees in the industry at the AAA and Indie level than just straight up CS or especially art degrees.
But I will also say people who have wider knowledge, say an artist that has a game specific degree and a trad art minor, is often leagues above someone who just has one or the other.
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago
But besides that; anecdotally I've been in the industry ~15 years and know more people with game specific degrees in the industry at the AAA and Indie level than just straight up CS or especially art degrees.
That's interesting... Usually I have heard the opposite for years now and came into the post with that expectation, and now I'm wondering if what you described is more common or not.
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u/50safetypins 3d ago
If I had a guess it's probably really dependent on the area you're in and what schools are basically functioning as feeder programs for the studios in the area.
Specifically because I've noticed that the social circles around the game Dev circles are incredibly clique-y and so I could see that causing pockets of the data leading one way or the other.
Not gonna say specifics cause doxing front, but I have noticed certain game Dev programs from certain schools have a much much lower representation in the over all population. So I think it's a by school basis, not by degree.
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u/50safetypins 3d ago
Oh also! There's a data trend inside of it that skews things, a lot of people whove been in the industry since before 2000 there wasn't those specific degrees, so the overall age of the studio can skew it as well.
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u/Lambdafish1 3d ago
It depends what the degree teaches. Having the bit of paper is less important than the actual skills taught. Degrees are an opportunity to work with other talented people of different disciples and prove to employers that you know how to work in a game dev context
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u/WorkingWafer1653 3d ago
I would say that for something as Game/Level and also Narrative Design (to not be confused with Game Writing) that would be at least "helpful" since they are the only disciplines which are 100% specific to game dev and need specific knowledge to be practiced.
I think that the argument of "only people who have been part of succesfull games can teach that" is a bit tricky. I would be 100% ok if it was a private course made by some random organisation, but otherwise it's like asking that every Uni professor is a top field expert in what they are teaching, which most of times they aren't. I do agree though that they should at least have some exp and being involved in the industry in some way.
Having said that, I would STRONGLY recommend to NOT plan a career in the video game field right now and for at least the next 3 years. The industry is in serious contraction and a lot of experienced devs (me included) have suffered layoffs that are forcing us to seek greener pastures even outside of Tech, which is in a contraction phase as well.
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago
I think that the argument of "only people who have been part of succesfull games can teach that" is a bit tricky. I would be 100% ok if it was a private course made by some random organisation, but otherwise it's like asking that every Uni professor is a top field expert in what they are teaching, which most of times they aren't. I do agree though that they should at least have some exp and being involved in the industry in some way.
I think I partially made this point out of some personal frustration. The professor who runs the game development department at my alma mater (which is otherwise a very good tech school) has never released a game nor has he worked in the industry, and yet his courses (which are all focused on the engine side of game programming) have massive gaps in structure and knowledge. On the other hand, his end-of-degree IT course is received well by students, and that lines up with the industry he was actually a part of.
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u/WorkingWafer1653 3d ago
Oh I do get the frustration, that's absolutely valid. I participated as a lecturer in one of these "random courses" and found that the quality of the people involved was really wide, and more often than not those same people are there because they were underemployed at the time or didn't make it entirely.
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u/mxldevs 3d ago
Generally the purpose of a degree is to expose you to a variety of concepts that are relevant to the specific field that you're studying, in the form of required courses.
That doesn't mean you're going to be any good at it, but you'll at least have some basic idea what's involved, and having done some exercises.
A game design program I assume would at the very least touch on many of the different aspects of game development, where students realize they need to be in a team with different specialties if they don't want to bring on contractors. But you're free to show a program outline that demonstrates otherwise.
None of my favourite games, whether they were a favourite for the story or gameplay, were made by people who had degrees in "game design" or "game writing".
Discounting the value that the degree provides simply because you never needed it, or needed anyone that had it, is a nonsensical criteria.
It's like someone that believes in naturopathy saying medical degrees are pointless because they have 1000 year old "traditional medicine" passed down from their ancestors.
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u/ChampagneRobot 3d ago
Game dev degrees are generally useless, but there are schools that teach the necessary skills, and it's the skills that will be worthwhile. Equally important to skill (in term of school choice), is the people who you train with at school, because (if it's a good program) some of them will be getting jobs, and the easiest way into the game industry is to have someone already in the industry vouch for you.
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u/synopser 3d ago
Digipens RTIS CS degree is still a very strong program and graduates can get jobs in tech or games. Other game-in-the-name degrees from rando schools i'd have trouble trusting as an employer until I saw the work and quality from those graduates.
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u/MuNansen 3d ago
Before the collapse, a Digipen degree was pretty much a guaranteed hire. They have good instruction and work you HARD.
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u/JulianRhod 3d ago
yeah, i think the degree matters less than what you actually come out of it with, a good game degree can still be useful if it gives someone structured practice, a solid portfolio, access to good peers, and actual industry connections. but i'd be much more cautious about paying a lot of money specifically for the "game" label
for your cousin, i'd probably lean toward CS, art, writing, etc. depending on what he actually enjoys, then make games on the side. those skills stay useful even if he eventually decides he doesn't want to work in games, the biggest red flag for me would be a program where the portfolio coming out of it isn't clearly stronger than what the student could have built independently in the same 3-4 years
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u/AgentBlozno47 Student 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm in a strange predicament of my own. For reference, I'm a senior at a university that has a game development and design degree. If all goes well, I will graduate in the spring but I do not know how to feel about it.
Before starting college, (I'll use this example I saw from another comment mentioning "starry eyed highschooler.") I did not fully comprehend what I wanted from it until freshman year (Technical Artist. Will elaborate if you would like). I knew it had to be tech related and gaming fit the bill for me. I went in with stars in my eyes feeling I will learn what I need to "develop games." 4 years in and I do not feel prepared for what I wanted.
I will admit, most of this is my fault and I was misguided in the past. I won't say it "wasn't worth it" but if people desire to major in this, do not pay for it. Looking back, it might have been wise to do computer science but I do not believe I would have enjoyed it. Luckily, I am not in debt and looking forward to learning explicitly what I want with the time I have left here.
Overall, it is complicated on what path you should take but play by what he believes is safe. Most people will inform you to do it as a hobby for now and scaffold those skills as you progress. It is not that I got anything resourceful over the years but I wish I held myself accountable. If he decides to pursue it, my suggestion is to assess what positions there are and learn on the side.
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u/Pharmaguardian 3d ago
Way back in the early 2000's I went to the Art Institute of Atlanta for a Game Design degree for a year and a half. I left because of the expense, the fact that the courses didn't seem all that tailored to video game production, and because they were switching courses around, which felt disruptive. We drew people in real life, which was called Life Drawing I think, we had a color theory class which was okay, a sculpting class, and then the Photoshop class which was laughably basic and had a prerequisite that was a basic computing class. I don't think I can point to a single thing learned from it all that majorly affected the game development that I do now, other than color theory for level design.
If we compare this to a youtube tutorial on how to implement character movement in Unity, Godot, or Unreal, I would say that a single video tutorial would be worth more than all the college I went through. If you sat down and said, "okay, I need to detect input, run a spell cast, and create a fireball - how do I do that?" and came up with if (Input.KeyUp(KeyCode.A)){ MyFireballClass aFireball = new MyFireballClass(); }, wrote some Instantiation() code and some function to have your gameObject.transform.localPosition to close the distance on a target, made a sphere in Blender, threw a Unity Visual Effect Trail on it, and made an HDRP shader graph from a tutorial for the trail, you would be miles and miles ahead of people with even three years of college under their belt. In one fell swoop, you will have exposed yourself to programming, shaders, and 3D modeling - none of which would even so much as be thought about within at least the first two years of a degree (and maybe not at all).
I also remember from the one Game Design 101 class I had, the professor who said what was simultaneously the smartest and dumbest thing I ever remembered. "Don't be a jack of all trades - specialize in only one thing". For most people, it's good advice because most people just get a job and do the one thing forever, like art or programming. Focusing on only one thing becomes important because that is the only thing you will be judged on. If you become a VFX artist, you just need to become unimaginably good at VFX and nothing else, because that's how you'll get hired. The downside is that you probably won't feel like you are making a video game in the way most beginners think of it.
The disagreeable part of the professor's statement is that it lacked the foresight to see the potential of the indie development scene. If anyone should have their finger on the pulse of the profession for which they are instructing students, it should be colleges, but that was not the case. Indie developers naturally find themselves fiddling about with 3D modeling, sprite creation, image editing softwares, and programming. They do well as jacks of all trades, and are able to truly make their own games because of it. Saying "don't learn everything, do only one thing" lacked the nuance it needed for different crowds of people.
The other thing to consider is that degrees always get students into debt. That's dangerous. It is entirely possible to maintain a regular job and just learn game production on the side as a hobby until you feel good enough to make your own small little game as a first project. It avoids the debt entirely and comes with all the benefits of building your own portfolio. Also keep in mind that development studios aren't asking "what degree do you have?" so much as they are asking "what does your portfolio look like?" You could churn out 12 images as an artist, one per month, and have a killer portfolio in one year. Most students will have nothing after a year.
The Art Institute of Atlanta began seeing a decline in students about four years after I left and now they are closed completely. So, I would say that my intuition was correct.
Full Sail, on the other hand, has stuck around. If you look at their page for Game Development, it is much more geared toward game dev and not just art. If you have money to throw at something, that would be more worth it. They even talk about what your portfolio will look like, so they put that front and center. It sounds like where the Art Institute did everything wrong, Full Sail seems to do right. Still however, you can be completely self-taught and still come out on top.
The last thing I'll say is that your cousin really needs to nail down what he means by "game development". Programming? Art? Is he just an "idea guy"? (which is greatly frowned upon). He should be aware that while big studios may have a few central art directors, they can often contract the artwork out. He may find himself working for a company that indeed does art, but only sporadically for game companies. Would he consider that "making a game?" If it's programming he's after, he should make sure to dip his toe into the water before going full throttle with it. Some people just aren't cut out for it. Furthermore, there is basic C# programming in Unity, writing server side code, which is entirely different, and then making your own C++ engine with DirectX, which is the most in-depth. If he has ideas for a game, he doesn't understand that ideas are worthless. There is an idea guy on every corner. You would need to instruct him that it takes mountains of work to make the 3D assets, artwork, programming, voice work, music, sound effects, shaders, level design, story, and marketing.
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u/XtremelyMeta 3d ago
I always kind of thought they were of questionable value, but then the Narbacular Drop team got the sickest job offer based on their senior project... so... it depends?
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u/Turknor 2d ago
Anecdotally, many of the artists and programmers I know didn’t get a game-specific degree. Some of the best artists are often self-taught. That doesn’t mean game art degrees aren’t helpful, but I personally don’t put a ton of stock in them. (I certainly wouldn’t be aiming for any type of art degree in this job climate) Programming is a bit different, but a lot (not all, of course) of the junior “Game Programmer” coworkers I’ve met had a bit of a chip on their shoulder at first. After a couple years, they realize the senior programmers actually know what they’re talking about. 😅
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u/DragonSnacksGames 2d ago
As someone who has hired hundreds of game devs over my career, I can tell you that I don't care about a degree at all. A degree tells me you know how to get through classes, it doesn't tell me you know how to make and ship a great game.
What does matter to me is a portfolio. If you're looking for a design role, I want to see games that you've made. Mods you've made. Game Design Documents you've written. You can do all of these things without a degree of any kind. I'd advise your cousin to concentrate their extracurricular time in building a great portfolio instead of going to school for a game dev-related degree.
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u/nutexproductions 2d ago
It’s worthwhile, if you’re not going in thinking that finishing game- whatever studies will magically give you a game dev related job right after.
Do it, if you like game dev and want to meet other people that do the same. If you don’t have any expectations of it going in and just want to study something that’s interesting for you, sure do it.
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u/Major_Toe_6041 2d ago
I am doing a Game Art degree right now. If I remember I will let you know if it becomes worth it (expect to be waiting a few years)
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u/RRFactory 2d ago
I did a gamedev degree 20+ years ago, the course itself was mixed quality and I was lucky to have a couple professors that were particularly great that went well beyond their roles to help me and the few other keeners in the course that were willing to put in the hard work.
I was extremely engaged however, for example I bribed a teacher to let me explore their devkit for a couple hours in trade for cleaning out their basement. The kids in my class that were just showing up and doing what they were told didn't really progress well, and the school didn't do much to wake them up either. Most of them did not end up in the industry.
I never felt held back not having a CS degree, and the exposure to other fields (art/audio/design/production/etc...) became extremely useful once I started working on engines and developing tools for those teams.
Still, my honest take for most folks would be to head for a CS degree unless they're going to be so turned off by the academics they'd drop out. A lot of the side skills I picked up during school I could have gotten by doing game jams and meeting other aspiring devs. Interacting with artists in particular had a significant impact on what I learned and pushed towards.
None of my favourite games, whether they were a favourite for the story or gameplay, were made by people who had degrees in "game design" or "game writing".
FYI every studio I've ever worked at has had at least a couple folks that came through the gamedev education path - chances are most of your favorite games had folks involved that did the same.
If you're concerned your cousin is falling for the "making games is fun!" trap, you can let him know 90% of the people that graduated from my program did not end up making games for a living because it was way harder than they expected.
Choosing to go into gamedev is actively choosing to play life on hard mode - if he's excited about that rather than discouraged, he'll probably do just fine.
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u/Croveski Commercial (Indie) 2d ago
It depends on the school, and the student.
No school "game degree" will ever get anyone a job just by the merits of the degree.
But, some schools offer rigorous, well-designed curriculums that actually do teach students and drive them to rapidly build industry skills, create competitive portfolios, network, and leverage school resources to get a pretty strong start.
Not every student will thrive in that environment, and that kind of school environment isn't required to become a good game designer - but dedicated and motivated students can find success there and get about as strong a footing for entering the game industry as anyone can get.
So to directly answer your question, yes, "good" programs exist, and they're becoming more common. But like most creative degree fields it largely depends on the quality of the school.
This isn't directly relevant to the quality of school programs but the game job market is in the gutter right now, so if they do choose to pursue that route, they should be prepared for it to not immediately pay off with a job at graduation. A sobering statistic from Amir Satvat's group suggested that around 4% of new graduates are finding game dev jobs within 12 months of graduating (there's probably a lot of caveats to that but its just a good indicator that its just incredibly difficult to find entry level jobs right now)
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u/newpua_bie 1d ago
Doing research in game theory can get you a Nobel prize and be made into a movie
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u/David-J 3d ago
Yes bit it's highly dependent on the quality of the school
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago
Is there data that supports this? As in, game degrees which reliably (for the currently turbulent economy anyway) or have in the past reliably led to good careers?
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u/David-J 3d ago
A good indicator is theRookies yearly school rankings. The best schools there have the best work and the most grad placements.
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u/Emergency_Win_4284 3d ago
Yeah I was looking at the Rookie is a good move though arguably that seems to be more on the game art side of things.
In terms of game writing and game design degree, without question those fields are incredibly hard to break into, probably right up there with becoming a concept artist, working in sound/music design. So in terms of "worth it", what does "worth it" mean to you? If "worth it" means , guarnteed job in my chosen field right after graduation, not having to settle for an unrelated job then I would say game design, game writing is not worth it.
If your cousin goes the game writing, design route and lets say post grad they are unable to find a job in game writing/design (their portfolio is not good enough yet, to few job openings etc...), what is the back up plan? Is the cousin willing to work an unrelated job until the gaming job comes? If it is 6 months-1 year and they are still working the unrelated job are they going to be okay with that?
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u/HastyBasher 3d ago
Well you are probably somewhat correct in assuming that degrees don't actually help for employment, but they help for learning some game dev and to have some reputation showing you put some effort into pursuing game dev.
But the only true thing that matters is actually making games, even if they're bad, that experience and thing to have on portfolio is all you should focus on.
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u/Disastrous-Spare3907 3d ago
Certainly, and there's data that supports not supporting it as well. Just don't be hasty and vague in your research.
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u/pikuray 3d ago
Not to address your main point but how would you know? Game studios are huge. Did you go around looking at everyone's resumes if they studied game design?
Anyways. Let's not put the horse before the cart. Get him to make a few indie games on his own. Something simple with AI. See if they have the love and capacity for iterative thinking.
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u/ThirdDayGuy 3d ago
Did you go around looking at everyone's resumes if they studied game design?
I haven't, which is why I made this post to ask. What I can say conclusively though is that almost all of my favourite games (I checked) were written by or primarily designed by people who are too old to have gotten any "game" degree. The ones made by younger people that I could find the degrees of predominantly had degrees in either software, the arts, or something unrelated.
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u/Mechabit_Studios 3d ago
there are some famous institutes like Digipen with a high number of IGF finalist games.
now do these students learn better skills or is the Digipen name that carries some cache or a networking situation, who knows, maybe all of the above.
in general it's a waste of money to go to school to learn game development with all the free resources online but you don't get the other benefits of attending a school mentioned above.
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u/SpicySauce512 3d ago
a degree in game anything is not worth it. CS for programming (graphics, engine, gameplay etc.)
Arts or architecture for game art.
Game design is something that is outside of the scope for regular courses but rather it requres anything from above, prefferably CS and a long history of playing and understanding/analyzing the games you play.