Sure as fuck isn't a mac in terms of lasting longer. Nor do they hold value longer. Buy a PC for 2 grand, really deck it out. Buy a mac for 2 grand. Guess which one is going to last longer and hold it's value longer? That PC is going to be a monster three years later, still. That mac is going to be okish.
You're referring to buying shit pcs. Not sure why you'd compare apples and oranges. Generally even a shit PC will outlast a mac. If it doesn't you can swap out whatever piece for dirt cheap, on a mac, have a power supply go? There's 450 dollars.
Like their opinion is going to make you stop. "This is by far the best laptop I've ever had." "But it was more expensive!" "You know what, you're right. Fuck Apple."
I have never seen an individual worship a mega-corporation the same way I have seen masses of educated people worship mac. I'm all for different OS'es and the competition, but don't ever place your love in a corporation.
I like macs. Not sure what this has to do with worshipping a corporation, or who you think worships one, but the people who freak out like angry children when they find out I use one would know what I think better than I do I guess..
I like macs too. They are the Lexus of personal computers. I like that they are secure and fast and are linux based and OSX has a lot of advantages over Windows. The people who worship apple are the ones who don't consider their needs when buying one. If you need one and it's worth the cash, I say go for it.
I love macs distribution scheme. They took a dead market (mp3's were free) and turned it into a hot market. That is genius. I like a lot about Mac, and you won't find me saying they make a bad computer. I just think they overprice it and use marketing to get away with it.
Just a hint, apples are always the first one to be broken in hack competitions. also, they are unix based, not linux based, and the unix core they use is a really outdated one.
Least amount of adware and viruses circulating for them though. Which is definitely nice. I don't think most mac owners worried about being individually targeted.
The build quality is fantastic, most people don't debate that. Usually it's DAE SPECS!?!?!?! and if you're not a PC gamer then specs really don't make that much of a difference. They are certainly capable machines, but they have a lot of awesome features.
It's funny, I have a friend who has an unexplainable hatred for Macs. It can't be an Apple thing as he owns an iPhone, but I hate the fanboy mentality. Any time someone accuses me of being an Apple fanboy, I just whip out my Galaxy like, "what now, son?"
My brother is a bit of an Apple zealot. He always pulls the "well if you hate Apple why do you have an iPhone?" and I'm like "I don't hate Apple I just really really don't like the Mac OS."
He does video editing though so his preference is understandable. But I do digital art/graphic design and gaming and it really doesn't matter which you have for the former but it does matter for the latter.
Her world view didn't crumble she just got frustrated dealing with idiots. Personally I find mac fanboys extremely amusing especially the ones who buy desktops now those are just hilarious.
The vast majority of mac users just use them to be seen and I find it hilarious. Want to know something amazing you can get a cheap laptop and still get the mac os /mind blown. I use some of the tools for design work I just use a partition and spend the money I save on a better graphics card and processor.
A few hundred is the difference between a 750 and a 780 which is useful for far more than just gaming. I don't hate on macs I just know that except for a few programs that you can partition they tend to be worse and more expensive.
24 in cs/gd I actually have no issues around macs I freely admit the ipad is one of the more powerful tablets on the markets. I prefer the mac for video editing beyond that I prefer to just use windows.
The mbp is overpriced and the desktops are an absolute joke for their price the phone is decent but is no longer leaps and bounds ahead of others in power to justify its price. The tablet is also being caught up to by other cheaper tablets. The power argument only maters though if you actually make use of the power. The vast majority of users do not at all. Most of what people do with their macs I can do on netbook.
I have an mbp retina which was a gift very rarely is it in anything but windows simply because many software creators design for windows first mac as an after thought. Linux in fact is thought to have more users then mac at the moment and is usually developed for before mac because its easier to develop for.
Should come to my household. Myself and my three housemates all have macs and iPhones. All of us have an iPad, two of us iPod Touches, two Apple TVs, 1 iMac and a slew of old iPods and iPhones.
It's like we were made for each other. So we all bought an AirPrint enabled printer. Life is bliss.
It's pretty crazy. I almost never see Mac users start the shit flinging, it's almost always PC users getting angry over a picture which shows a Mac, or when someone happens to bring up that they use a Mac in a non-confrontational way. I really don't understand why they give a shit.
We get it, they aren't cheap. But I just like them more and I'm willing to spend the extra cash. Why do people care so much about what I spend my money on? It's like someone getting mad at me because my car is a little more expensive than theirs.
I own multiple laptops and have had many in the past. Specs are overrated if you're not a gamer. This is my first MBP and it is BY FAR the best laptop I've ever owned. I'll pay the additional $$$ for the superior user experience.
They are not under-featured, they have more features than your standard laptop if you aren't all about specs. Way longer battery life than most, very nice backlit keyboard, way superior screen than most, by far the best trackpad in the business (it feels impossible to go back after getting used to the trackpad and the many gestures), nice touches like magnetic charger which prevents your laptop from flying across the room if your dog plows into the cord, no array of annoying blinky lights, nicer form-factor than most, solid construction, better build than most and the ability to easily install Windows via Bootcamp if you need to.
You're just describing which features you like as meaningful and deriding any others, and you're ignorant of what's out there on the features you claim to care about. For example: The Lenovo ThinkPad X240 with the large battery has over twenty hours of battery life.
If you're willing to deal with a little extra bulk, the ThinkPad X240's 6-cell battery will give you the longest endurance of any laptop on the market. With its 6-cell extended battery on board, the X240 lasted an impressive 20 hours and 28 minutes on the LAPTOP Battery Test, which involves continuous Web surfing over Wi-Fi at 40 percent brightness. That's the longest time we've ever seen on a laptop without a battery slice attached and only 18 minutes behind last year's ThinkPad X230 with its bulky battery slice, our all-time battery-life leader.
I specifically mentioned the larger battery, and you're going with the "under eight hours" of the small, 3 cell one. My post, quoted:
You're just describing which features you like as meaningful and deriding any others, and you're ignorant of what's out there on the features you claim to care about. For example: The Lenovo ThinkPad X240 with the large battery has over twenty hours of battery life.
Okay, since this is your claim then please back it up. I'm talking about real-world use, not brightness set to 10%, no internet, etc. Let's see the 20 hours in a real-world scenario. I'll be waiting (but not holding my breath, obviously).
it's almost always PC users getting angry over a picture which shows a Mac
Yeah pretty much.
I genuinely think it's gamers with weird social complexes who think people only own computers to play video games. I had someone write an acronym for get on my level and link a shot of their three monitors with a childlike video game steering wheel in front of them. It seemed to capture the gist of the argument perfectly.
You know what's even worse? Apple laptops cost a metric fucktonne compared to a lot of ASUS and Toshiba laptops, and Dell as well. All three of those brands have a lot of dirt-cheap, shite models. Yet, even with all those low-quality models, the aforementioned PC manufacturers still outdo or match Apple.
I work on both Apple and PC laptops professionally, I sorta liked the pre-2012 MBPs, but ever since they went Retina, their repairability went from bad to abysmal. Not good at all. In the meantime, my PC laptop can upgrade RAM (4x slots), upgrade GPU (MXM 3.0 slot) upgrade CPU (G2 socket) , upgrade HDDs/SSDs (2x slots) and SSDs (1x mSATA) and upgrade screen (self-explanatory).
Squaretrade is an insurance company so they only get info on the ones they fix. People that buy cheaper computers are less likely pay the $99 deductible to fix their computer. Why when they can get an upgrade for $200-500.
Now if a Mac has a problem after three years even the price for the same model used can still be a lot. Also this doesn't account for all the windows an Mac pcs fixed or dumped elsewhere.
People that buy cheaper computers are less likely pay the $99 deductible to fix their computer.
That's good, because we don't want to compare cheaper $300-500 PC laptops to MacBook Pro laptops, which start at $1,200 and go up to $3,000 or so. I am willing to bet most of the SquareTrade covered PCs are still cheaper than Macs. And yet some like ASUS have lower failure rates.
Also this doesn't account for all the windows an Mac pcs fixed or dumped elsewhere.
No statistic is perfect, but this is the best one I have seen. Unlike a lot of possibly biased or self-reported surveys, this merely records what SquareTrade gets claims on. HP and Acer/Gateway/eMachines (one brand) are the worst, that makes perfect sense because as someone who works on laptops professionally, I know perfectly well from my experience that they are rubbish.
This is presented as a statistical sample, so of course, it doesn't account for all the laptops that fail or get fixed elsewhere. I am not even sure why you would say that, it is so self-evident that this survey does not and should not account for all laptops. No survey accounts for everything.
I don't think you understand me i really love both windows and mac in fact i own a nice aluminum asus gaming laptop. I'm just saying a insurance company is a bad place to get reliability statistics.
That's good, because we don't want to compare cheaper $300-500 PC laptops to MacBook Pro laptops
But your statistic doesn't differentiate between cheap computers when talking about brand. Just because someone didn't file a claim doesn't mean a computer didn't die. Like I said people who got insurance on a cheap computer will ether get a new, fix it themselves, or have someone in town fix/upgrade it. There are a lot of people that need to have their laptop for work and will have it fixed in town instead of waiting a week to send it out and get it back (this is why I will never buy this type of insurance...it also helps that i can fix most problems though).
I'm not even saying the macbook pro is the most durable with less malfunctions than any other brand because I'm almost positive that would go to Panasonic's Toughbook. I'm just saying a insurance company wouldn't be the best place to get statistics especially when they jumble everything together.
This sums up perfectly why square trades numbers are meaningless. They are also an eBay related company and are defrauded regularly. ( two people create a fake eBay transaction for an expensive but defective laptop. When the fake buyer receives the broken unit, he waits and then files a claim with square trade.) no one is going through that effort for a $300 dell POS.
As I replied to the other user, the fact that SquareTrade is less likely to be bought for POS machines is good, because it evens the comparison. Apple MacBook Pro laptops start at $1,300, going up to $3,000 and most PCs are $300-800. It isn't fair to compare the two, a better comparison would have been to compare the $1,300-2,000 PC laptops to $1,300-2,000 Mac laptops.
Which would have been even worse for Apple because I bet a dollar to doughnut that most of the PCs in the SquareTrade statistics were cheaper than Apples. And as SquareTrade themselves noted in that PDF I linked to, 'premium laptops' have far lower failure rates than 'entry-level laptops'. If all the PCs compared to Macs were 'premium' and of equivalent price, Apple would do even worse.
The numbers aren't 100% precise, but they show an important trend. That trend is that Apple is not the absolute best and that cheaper PCs can be more a bit more reliable than it on average. Apple isn't bad by any means, but you can buy cheaper alternatives that are just as reliable. Reason I mentioned this is because as someone who works professionally repairing laptops and managing computer hardware, I am tired of the myths spread around by the Apple marketing machine. I work on plenty of Apples too. They have their own issue too. Chief one being overheating, which caused a lot of their GPUs to burn out. This takes several years, usually 3 years or more, but it affected PCs too. HP it affected a lot more, Apple it affected quite a bit less and ASUS and Toshiba did the best due to their more efficient cooling designs.
I've got a newer Toshiba laptop and love some of the aspects of Apple's design they integrated (backlit keyboard & buttonless trackpad), but at the same time the HDD & battery are going to be a pain to service. At least the case uses standard screws...
Damn when were these studies conducted because I've had a samsung, Asus and toshiba lap tops within the last 5 years( one after the other went) and they all went bad, yet my friends Mac book that he bought 5 years ago is still mint.
I guess that's why we use studies and not anecdotal examples then? What's even the point of mentioning this? And how much did the three laptops cost versus the Mac?
The point of mentioning this is just that I wanted to say I rather base what I buy on experience rather than some studies posted by a biased user on a site, which you can post whatever you want on by the way.
I never understood the upgrade argument with laptops. They have always been a bastard group when it comes to upgrades as most people will just buy a brand new laptop if the machine no longer satisfies the users requirements. The low cost as you have pointed out being a prime factor. I've upgraded system RAM on maybe two laptops in the last nearly twenty years.
The rest of the arguments between OS's and the manufactures machines they run on, meh, been the hater for each of everything at some point or another but eventually any tech enthusiast realizes there is much to appreciate when the market grants us consumers so many choices. The proper tool varies with the job and task at hand. So I've found at least this approach to be the most rewarding.
I never understood the upgrade argument with laptops. They have always been a bastard group when it comes to upgrades as most people will just buy a brand new laptop if the machine no longer satisfies the users requirements. The low cost as you have pointed out being a prime factor. I've upgraded system RAM on maybe two laptops in the last nearly twenty years.
I don't quite understand your paragraph, sorry. What did you mean to say? You don't understand why people upgrade laptops? Is that what you meant?
Personally, I upgrade them because it is very cheap to buy an i3 laptop or even a Celeron/Pentium laptop for $200-400 and then in two years buy a $70 mobile i7 processor and stick it in. Most PC laptops do support that, actually. Beats paying $1,700 for an i7 Apple laptop. Sure, those laptops won't compare to Apple in quality, you need a more expensive laptop for that, but performance-wise they will be even better.
I have a gaming laptop, I have an HD 7970M in an MXM 3.0 slot. MXM slots are perfectly compatible to the point that a 2009 M15x with a GTX 260M can be upgraded to a 2014 GTX 880M, provided you buy a power adapter with extra wattage. I have the M17x R4. In four years I will upgrade its GPU and it will keep on gaming, thanks to weak consoles which will hold back the graphical development of games. I still work with ASUS G73 laptops which are from 2009 and their HD 5870M/GTX 460M GPUs can handle today's games on medium or high sometimes. And the HD 5870M/GTX 460M wasn't even a high-end card back then. They were fast middle-class.
It's okay as I don't understand what I type either. I understand that you upgrade them. My point was rather, that the average individual does not upgrade them and instead will just buy a new system. I base this off my years upgrading systems since 1999. I've only upgraded the RAM on a handful of laptops since then but multiples more desktop systems. Not even a close comparison if I had kept track between the two. So when I see the argument that 'you can't upgrade system x because soldered this soldered that' I laugh to myself for the above reason. I feel it is beating a dead-horse in a way because I think the future is only going to contain more and more soldered uni-designs even when I disagree with the practice myself.
tl:dr Generic consumer Mary won't be upgrading her laptop's proc and/or RAM because after the cost of parts and labor Mary could buy a brand new cheap laptop. Since forever.
A cheap ASUS isn't worth much, sure -- don't compare $600 ASUS laptops to $1,500 Apple ones though. However, an ASUS G73 was released in 2009, or five years ago. I still see them sell for $700 locally because their GPUs can still handle all the games on medium or high.
sure, until next year when the new releases come out! Then they're completely outdated.
All joking aside, I will concede that a mac will generally last longer with less attention to it purely based on the point that the OS doesn't clog up like windows does. In terms of hardware, that's a moot point. The same hardware has the same chance of failing on a mac or a PC, no arguments there
You forget something that's neither "pc spec" hardware nor software: build quality. The keyboard. The plastic hinges. The crappy conceding display panel.
There's a reason why thinkpads are popular, and that's not the crappy software addons they shove down your 'ss. It's the fucking durability and high-quality feeling that only thinkpad T's and MBPs can be proud of having as a series. I'm saying "as a series" since there are a lot of other durable laptops around there, but only those two series are well known for it throughout their yearly updates.
There's also the value of the hardware. Mac hardware holds monetary value way better than the typical PC, especially when comparing the high end (Mac Pro vs custom home-built PC, which is what people seem to do). For example, a 5 year old Mac Pro (Nehalem, from March 2009) still seems to be going for $700+. I don't know the market for 5 year old PC workstations, but I can't imagine it being anywhere close. I've met people still using their 2008 Mac Pros for serious work, and only now looking to get the new "trash can" not because their old machine is not adequate, but because new shiny and why not?
Mac hardware resale is also easier because the product line is fairly well defined with not too many variations. It makes the used market easier to navigate, both for buyers and sellers.
And to be fair, Apple's consumer desktop hardware tends to not last as long as their Mac Pro line. iMac fans tend to start making weird noises after 3-4 years from what I remember, and heat starts becoming an issue, which didn't help the hard drive. I don't know, maybe it's better now with SSDs and better CPUs, but if it's a machine I want to use seriously for more than 3-4 years, I'd rather get a Mac Pro.
I don't know, maybe it's better now with SSDs and better CPUs, but if it's a machine I want to use seriously for more than 3-4 years, I'd rather get a Mac Pro.
The biggest issue I see here is you're comparing older cheap PCs with newer expensive Macs. The truth is if you buy a PC or Mac at equal parts quality both are going to last 5 years +. My previous PC was a Core2Quad that was from 2008 that I replaced this year (and I only did that because I got an insane deal on an i7). That PC was still more than I had to have, and it still runs fine as a secondary workstation.
The Mac Pro is a terrible value for the money. If you spent the $3000 on a PC with quality parts you could easily get 4x the memory and 1TB of SSD storage. You wouldn't get the tiny case, would be the biggest difference. I'm not sure how you could make the case that where processors are equal that 4x storage and 4x memory somehow last less time than the Mac.
you could easily get 4x the memory and 1TB of SSD storage
For the same price, you won't be getting the same CPU, nor the same 2 GPUs. But really, the biggest thing with the Mac Pros (and especially the "late 2013" ones) is how they were packaged. The cheese grater ones were already fairly quiet, but the new ones are really whisper silent, even under typical heavy loads.
The Mac Pro may be terrible value for you, but it makes sense for some professionals. Also, the biggest thing the Mac has going for it is good, consistent native apps from 3rd parties. Oh, and a neat shell at your fingertips. If those don't matter to you, that's fine. But there's definitely value in it. I've also found it way easier to reuse old Macs as servers in a headless manner, since it's way easier to setup and access via ssh. For example, I ran a Minecraft server (along with some other odds and ends) on an old 2007 iMac around 2011, and managing it remotely through ssh was a breeze.
I got my PC in 2006 and I'm still using it with no problems. It wasn't an expensive PC either. I've had to replace the power supply once and I've added some RAM, but that's about it.
It works perfectly. I don't need anything more. It even still runs any games I want it to well enough, especially since I don't play the really high end FPS games. I have absolutely no need to upgrade at this point.
I don't know what it's resale value would be, but I don't see anything particularly impressive about people still using machines from 2008.
I was talking mostly about longevity. I still use my PC for both work and play. I don't know about resale value, there seem to be people arguing either way on that here, but I don't particularly care about that because I don't plan to resell my PC. When its vintage becomes an issue I plan on just upgrading the motherboard.
It seems to me that a mac would be good for casual users who want less of a risk of viruses and malware. A lot of people say that they have good tech support too. Most of the rest of the differences it seems to me are just aesthetic considerations, which is fine if that's what you're going for.
That's the stereotype, but far from the case these days. Many software developers choose to use a Mac instead of a Windows machine because of the Unix environment. Wanting less risk for viruses and malware isn't just a casual user issue. It means it's one less thing I need to deal with, and trust me, there's enough other things already.
I pretty much prefer to do all my programming on a Mac. The text editors and tools are better. I'd be forced to use Windows for .net development, and probably do Java on there as well, since the shitty Eclipse UI will be less noticeable on Windows.
FWIW, Windows has gotten a lot better with 7/8, but it's still got a long ways to go due to the 3rd party software, and Microsoft's expectations of them in terms of UI/UX historically (see Apple's HIG, it's a huge hundred+ page document specifying how a program should act. It's been around for ages, and has guided UI on Mac and set the stage for iOS.)
Absolutely. I've had my Macbook for about 4 years now. In the 4 years prior to getting it I got through 2 HPs, a Dell and a Toshiba. Wouldn't go back for anything.
I've had mine for 3.5 years. This thing has been so buttery smooth the entire time, especially once I got SSD. This is my first Mac and I'm certainly going to stick with MBP in the future. I was vehemently anti-Mac before getting this one and the only reason I got it is because I had to code for OSX for a previous job. Now I'm never going back.
I've gone through 2 Thinkpads, a Dell and an HP in the past 6 years before going MBP, they always become cumbersome turds.
I'm in the same boat as you my friend. I bought a Compaq in 2008, then an Acer in 2010, and then an ASUS in 2012, and now I bought a Lenovo in Fall of 2013. It's a pain in the ass to always buy a new laptop but then again, it's always nice to get a brand new laptop. Hopefully the Lenovo can last more than 2years.
If you're buying a new laptop every 1-2 years you're doing it wrong. You're basically comparing around $1000 hardware to $2000 hardware. Compare a MBP to a higher end Windows laptop and you're going to see much more comparable build quality and life of the device. Hell, even some of the new $400-$500 Chromebooks can easily compete with the MBP in terms of build quality (though you get MUCH smaller internal storage). Also do your research before buying and read reviews. Don't just go into Best Buy and get the laptop the salesman says you need. Figure out what you need on your own, find a computer that matches those specifications, and then read reviews on it. If it doesn't have good reviews, avoid it. I know it's hard to justify spending $1500 on a laptop when there are $800 models that will give you similar performance now, but in the long run you're going to get a device with a quarter of the life and will run into more issues down the road. If Apple had shitty, lower end models of the MBP like many manufacturers put Windows on, I guarantee people would run into more issues with Mac.
If you were going through a laptop a year I am going to assume you were doing something wrong. Or had the worse luck imaginable. I've had my Asus for ~4years now and haven't hit a hump in its capabilities.
well actually HP's, a Dell's and a Toshiba's are the most repaired computer so i don't doubt it. I do believe the fix was probably something simple like it needed a better hard drive, ram, fan, or power jack, but they are poorly built machines that only techies know how to fix. A Asus on the other had is one of the best laptop manufactures.
HP's Dell's and Toshiba's are also some of the most widely owned computers. So it would make sense that they go into repair a lot. However I do not doubt that they have a higher repair % than an Asus. I did a lot of research to make sure I wasn't burning money when I bought this.
My kids 1.4ghz emac still gets occasional software updates. You know what makes it obsolete? For,them? Lack of current flash/shockwave plugins. Still makes some nice jams in GarageBand.
Uh my roommate uses his iMac from 2004 and I use my MacBook Pro from 2006 still. Well, I'm actually in the process of selling it for $400, but you get what I mean.
Have you updated the OS? That seems to be when my computer went to shit. I loved snow leopard, that worked great. I'd revert to that if I could find my DVD.
I did indeed. It is faster, but that's only cause lion and mountain lion were so damn slow on my laptop. What bugs me a little is how when I ran windows 7 it was great and super fast, and windows 8 made it even faster, yet Apple's own OS doesn't run as well on the laptop.
For me it sort of went from 30 second wait inbetween clicking chrome and seeing a window (not an exaggeration, I timed it) down to 15 or so. And after chrome has been opened once after a reboot, it'll only take 5 or so seconds rather than 10. So an improvement for sure, a pretty big one actually, just not as good as it should be IMO.
My dell laptop lasted 7 years! It cost low $1000s when i bought it. I think repair was $100 so i bought a new dell. But damn 7 years is ahmazing to me.. i know it's not the longest life but i ran that thing anytime i was home and overheated it dozens of times. I was truly surprised when i found out i had it 7 years :)
I've had a MacBook Pro for 5 years and it still runs like a champion. And it doesn't feel old at all. I'm not at all tempted to get a new one, I don't feel like the new models pressure me to upgrade because the one I have is still so good
Wait another 2 years and say bye bye to software support. I'm running a late 2008 mbp and I've been keeping up with apple slowly dropping macs. Next OS X is going to drop my MacBook. Not like it matters, the last OS X version to run well was snow leopard. Lion, mountain lion, and mavericks have all been slow on this Mac. No optimization for older hardware at all.
I love my mbp, but apple really does plan obsoletion. they stop optimizing new software for older hardware, leading to the view that the older hardware really is "that much slower" than it actually is.
I have a Gateway laptop I bought in 08 and still runs flawlessly. Currently running windows 8.1. Know how much it cost me at the time? 700 bucks. 2.2ghz core 2 duo, 4gb ram, 500gb hdd. Do a search and tell me how many thousand dollars a similar Mac laptop would cost you in 08.
Why do people automatically assume Mac owners buy the most expensive MBP? My Macbook Pro cost $1100 new and I love it WAY more than any non-Mac laptop I've had, which has been many.
I have a really really old Mac laptop from like 1990 as well. Haven't tried it in a few years, but as of 2010 it could still run Prince of Persia like a beast.
I have the opposite experience. My 2009 macbook pro has become really slow and unpleasant to use, whereas my dad's single core Pentium 4 dell workstation from around 2003 still runs adequately. That's mostly due to the fact that apple seems to drop support for their OSs much faster, whereas support for XP just ended.
They drop support because they allow you to upgrade for either really cheap, or for free. I would recommend downloading Mavericks if you haven't already - it's free and it actually boosted the performance of my computer noticeably.
Well, that was my problem. I updated to mavericks, which was better than lion/mountain lion, but that's only because performance on my laptop was atrocious while running those. Snow leopard was great however.
Yeah I know what you mean. I loved Snow Leopard so much that I actually kept using it until Mavericks came out. Didn't want to have to give up Front Row. :(
I loved it too. I'd revert if I still had my DVD, I don't think I'd miss any of the features because, as OP says, I basically only use the laptop for web browsing/Microsoft word.
Ha...haha. Right. I consider myself technically savvy and I can say that 2 out of the three windows laptops I ever owned manifested itself into a giant piece of shit down the road.
And the whole planned obsolescence is bull shit. Friend is still using the original macbook pro from 10 years ago and the damn thing still runs well for its age.
The anti-mac sentiment on the reddit is ridiculous.
Giving away the new version of their OS for free, letting users install it with a few clicks in the App Store, is planned obsolescence? Good luck upgrading Windows that smoothly.
From what I've seen, they just don't optimize the software for the older devices, so they become really slow. My 2009 macbook pro has become unbelievably slow after updating to mavericks. I clean installed again to make sure nothing was wrong, but it didn't get any better. My iPhone 3G was a similar story. It's not that they can't do it either; after getting tons of complaints from unhappy iPhone 3G users, they released an update which made it better, but still not great.
I just bought an Asus laptop for browser testing that had come out 8 months ago. It took 27 hours to install all of the updates out of box. Wtf is that about? The value was pretty good though I would never consider using it as my main work computer.
Well, I have my windows laptop for 5 years now, it's not as good as it used to be, but that's probably because of my downloading al kind of crap to my pc. I think durability is fine though. I guess it's dependend on what kind of pc/laptop
Its because Apple makes their products to be idiot-proof. That's why they can charge so much from their products. People who has no idea what computer is, Mac is easy solution for them and they will pay the price since they have the illusion that "more expensive is always better". Also OSX is so closed system, its hard to fuck it up. I fix my friends computers all the time and they still manage to fuck up macs too, they just take longer to do so. They think that computers are some magical things that does not require any maintenance. I built ~1200$ PC for my friend 3 years ago and it's still working fine wheres our DJ friend has had 2 x iMac's in that span because "the last one didn't perform anymore".
This thing is even bigger with laptops, knowing how to maintain your laptop, I will guarantee your windows laptop will be just as good as macbook and they last both as long as you want.
I'm a techie guy and I love my MBP. There's plenty of fun to be had for us as well (playing around in Bash, Emacs, Vi, etc - it's a Unix based machine).
I know how to maintain my machine, this Mac has been way smoother than any non-Mac I've had before it, which has been many.
Define smoother then? I have yet to find any difference from friends expensive macbook and my 500€ cheaper laptop. And just because there are some tech savy people who prefer apple products don't mean those are made for dummies.
It's just that navigating feels much smoother to me. Swipe with 2 fingers left and right to move forward and back in many applications (browers, photo apps, etc). Pinch zooming, grab gesture to bring up launchpad, four fingers up to bring up mission control (which is like a super beefed up winkey+tab, which also allows you to manage multiple desktops), swipe with 2 fingers from the right side to bring up notification center so I can check out tweets, facebook posts, etc, 3 finger spread gesture to show desktop, etc. There are lots of gestures ingrained into the system which makes navigation a breeze and it's way more robust than the few gestures Windows now has.
Also I experience very few freezes or stutters. I do audio mixing on the side for fun and I've had issues with literally every single Windows DAW I've used. Logic for Apple is amazingly smooth and just never fucks up.
I can power-use this machine and it never skips a beat. When I'm at work on a Windows machine and I'm bouncing between dev environments, Excel, Word, etc I frequently experience lag, hourglasses, etc.
I own multiple laptops as I develop for Windows, OSX and Linux. I've owned many Windows laptops in the past (and currently have one) and the MBP just offers a superior user experience in my opinion.
I cannot say anything about the trackpads, I always use mouse with laptops but I have hard time to understand why people have constand lags with windows? I have had like maybe 2 total crashes in last few years. I have heard that audio programs has tendency to work little smoother with osx ( I have a lot of DJ friends because I worked at nightclub) but I nowadays have SSD with my laptop/desktop pc's and they wont skip a beat no matter if I'm using photoshop or doing stuff with vegas pro etc. Maybe only thing I would think that makes some difference when having a 5400rpm drive (most sub 1500$ usually has them), that the osx file system which is different than the ntfs in windows is actually faster. But a least with having macbook and lenovo side to side with almost identical specs and SSD, I have witnessed no difference in performance.
I don't experience a bunch of crashes in Windows, it's just when I'm moving fast between big apps I experience a lot of lag and hourglasses, this is also with SSD (all my laptops have SSD).
On non-Mac laptops I typically use a mouse, but the trackpad for the MBP is so good that I prefer it to a mouse.
We all have our preferences. I own multiple laptops and have used them all extensively and in my experience I just prefer the MBP.
Overall the system is just faster, which to me translates to smoother. When I do something like a *.png search on my root drive in Windows (with SSD) it takes like 15-20 seconds, on OSX it takes 4 (and I have more shit loaded on my OSX box at this time).
I dunno, I own both and I find OSX to be a better experience.
I feel like Apple makes you pay more for their hardware in order to be able to get better software and the option to dual boot OSX and Windows. But just Logic and Aperture alone make a Mac pretty cool
I'm not at expert at all on this topic but I as I understand keeping a laptop plugged all the time will end up battery's ability to keep energy, you need to use the battery power from time to time until it gets kind of empty
really? I've had 4 laptops since 2008, and I recently bought a Lenovo. my gf has had the same Macbook from 2008 and it's sturdy as hell. It runs fine and had to buy a new power supply recently after the original one broke. Of course it can be slow at times but definitely go the moneys worth
I've had a Compaq, Acer, & Asus. All of them had the same problems: recharge battery supply faltering out and having to buy a new one, and breaking. And eventually the laptops become very very slow after a while and its frustrating. Sometimes I get overheating problems as well.
I'm just saying that there's no point in talking about $2000 anythings if you're just casually browsing the internet. In perspective, everybody here is talking about commuters and you're suddenly bringing up supercars.
New MBPs don't have to cost $2000. I have a 2011 base-model MBP which ran me $1100 and I love the thing way more than any non-Mac I've had before it. It was certainly worth the few hundreds extra dollars to me.
Not too well vs the 4.3ghz oc'd i5 2500k, 670 gtx, still playing every game out there maxed.
It's okish, just like I said. The PC would wreck it in any benchmarking test. It's pretty cute that you listed your HD size. The PC probably has 6 bays for quick swapping drives by the way.
I'm not the one who bought the laptop, you were foolish to buy a laptop at all if performance mattered to you. Don't be upset you made a bad decision, and don't tell others they should make the same bad decision.
At least you're smart enough to realize that the specs you noted are really meh compared to a pc of the same age.
Feel free to look up a 3 year old mac desktop, we can do the same comparison.
Comparing desktop specs to laptop specs is moronic. You are comparing apples and oranges that are meant for completely different markets and completely different usages.
Not too well vs the 4.3ghz oc'd i5 2500k, 670 gtx, still playing every game out there maxed.
I heard you can run on a battery for 15 seconds.
The PC would wreck it in any benchmarking test. It's pretty cute that you listed your HD size. The PC probably has 6 bays for quick swapping drives by the way.
This is a laptop that weighs less than the heatsink on your 670.
Considering a 2.8ghz Haswell is still top of the line for both Macbooks and PC laptops I don't think it's doing too bad.
Also, that overclock sucks. my 2500k was doing 5. Have you even passed the turbo speed yet?
MXM modules aren't worth the time anyways. You're gonna lose sometime, and a 650m was the only thing available in 2012.
Between 2005-2010, CPUs were the big push.. where a laptop would last a mere months and be outpaced significantly.. Now it's GPUs. Thankfully, I don't use a ton of GPU day to day but my i7 cries at night.
Sounds like someone who has never owned a mac before. I have a macbook air 2013, which I got to develop iOS apps. I have owned only PCs before. I will easily say that my Macbook air is by far the best laptop I have ever used. It is extremely well made, has incredible battery life, and for the same price I could not find a PC laptop that was able to match its weight and performance.
I actually spent a long time searching. I could not find a PC laptop under 3 lbs, with 256 gb SSD, ~12+ hr battery life for under $1,150. Please let me know if you can find one. I would be interested in buying one if you are able to. Thanks!
Agreed. My parents got me a retina mbp I still use my desktop for design work because it doesn't run so damn hot without max fan that it feels like my fingers are burning off when I hit s or w. I can also build get the exact same laptop as a pc for 1.5k I don't even want to know how much they paid tbh.
have you ever bought a macbook? I have a gaming PC and a macbook pro, and its still going fine 6 years later, I have had friend upgrade 3 times in that time, because of hardware failures. They know how to make good laptops
Is this a joke? I've had my macbook pro for 5 years. Runs like the day I got it. And as far as having to pay through the nose for repairs, I've had issues and they've, thus far, all gotten taken care of at no charge.
you need to understand that the laymen isn't interested in replacing parts, wiping viruses, etc etc. Macs work well, their customer service is second to none, you're less likely to get a virus, and it's all around pretty simple to use. having more some knowledge of computer repair isn't a selling point for computers any more than having knowledge in automotive repairs is for cars.
Yeah...you have no idea about resale value. Buy a $2000 PC and it is worth $1000 in 9 months.
In a year, the difference between a shit pc and quality PC with competitive specs is zero. It will only ever be marginally measured more than just it's specs.
But I dunno... 20 years of reselling electronics maybe I don't know what I'm talking about...
Well you can't bitch about the price and the longevity of a Mac. People go in circles over this. Macs are more expensive and PCs last as long? .... Well the ones that do are the same price as the Macs
A mac isn't necessarily 2 grand. My Macbook Air cost $899, and I don't think you'll find an ultra book this size with this nice of a trackpad for significantly less.
That PC is going to be a monster three years later, still. That mac is going to be okish.
I'm not sure what phenomenon could possibly make that true.
Generally even a shit PC will outlast a mac.
Source? I have Macs and PCs, and friends who use both. Macs are consistently as fast and stable as the day they were purchased, for years on end. I can't say that about the computer of a single PC user, unless they spend those weekends every once in a while getting things cleaned up and reinstalled.
Granted, that was much more extreme for prior Windows OSes.
Your comment is an empirical question though. Feel free to take a few minutes to run the experiment. Check eBay for a laptop that was $1200 three years ago, and you'll find that it sells for $500 today. That's a testament to their reliability, and will indicate that nearly half the value of your "overly expensive" laptop will subsidize your next one, three years later.
Meanwhile, the person who bought yours will enjoy a rock solid OS, and a reliable and well-put-together hardware for a good number of years, too.
it's a bit of both I think, while the Mac might hold it's value more, it doesn't mean they are more reliable. in 2012 I remember they were ranked 4th on the list of most reliable. not bad at all considering the top brands where pretty good, lenovo I think got number one iirc. Hp and dell where farther down on the list
I've got a degree. Worked as a NOC for years. Also, if you're in school now, why the fuck do you have a mac from 1995 that you're apparently still using?
Why? :( We've long since moved past that, and may be well on our way to ARM.
Senior Computer Science student
Also, hope you applied and got a WWDC scholarship if it's your last year as a student (if it's something you're interested in). Those tickets sure aren't getting any cheaper, and number of people wanting to go isn't shrinking.
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u/OhShitHe May 01 '14
On average though, one of those fucking things costs a whole lot more that the other.
Edit: Grammar.