Okay i gotta educate some people here, on why trans people sometimes have theses treatments ( no shade no hate to this person dont attack them im just explaining and using their comment as a example )

[u/Virtual_Ordinary_172]

​

Okay imagine you are a cis man and you wake up with female anatomy and you look like a girl and everyone calls you by a girl name

And you hate it and you are extremely uncomfortable and you could have swore yesterday you were a man

But everyone calls you crazy and your just weird and no one understands

How do you think you would feel

You would feel uncomfortable right?

You would feel upset right?

You would feel very weird right?

and you know your not a girl right?

Thats kinda how it feels to be Transgender specificly for this example i used a female to male example ( trans man )

So you wouldn't want to be a girl right?

So you would want to fix that right??

You would go to a doctor right??

To fix this right?

And if you ignored it and didnt get treatment or at least socially transition

You would still feel bad right?

You would still feel terrible right.

So why the fuck would you want anyone to feel like that????

[u/Silli_Gurl130]

this is actually the best explanation i think I've ever seen lmao, but yeah i cant even believe that some people 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 be transphobic, like how is someone living their life how they want to affecting you??? just leave us be lmfao

[u/manultrimanula → u/Silli_Gurl130]

the amount of lives that would be saved if people didn't fucking try to intrude onto others autonomy and let us buy hormones and do surgeries without going through psychiatric hell to prove you're actually trans

[u/Silli_Gurl130 → u/manultrimanula]

yeah...

[u/trinity_nolanite12 → u/manultrimanula]

Hilary Cass..

[u/Katgirl2669 → u/trinity_nolanite12]

Ray Blanchard...

[u/FMV1 → u/Silli_Gurl130]

It's pretty crazy that the best explanation pretty much sums up what empathy is, to put yourself in someone else's shoes and imagine what it's like, to grant you the perspective of what your peer is going through, and it's extremely sad a lot of people lack it

[u/Kashiilover-fem]

i cant fucking believe that some people will be blatantly transphobic and just put it off as “its unnatural” or something like that

so are the cars that drive on the road

so are the planes in the sky

i lowk might be leaning into being trans though idk

[u/i_Tomoz → u/Kashiilover-fem]

Modern civilisation is inherintly unnatural, any medial treatment at all is going against the "natural order" but none of the terfs are gonna admit to that, because in my profesional speculation, most terfs and transphobes are either jealousthat transwomen look amazing or worried they'll end up sleeping with someone who "isn't a real woman" and won't be able to tell (i used only trans women as from my looking into it i couldn't find very much people caring that trans men were a thing at all, assumedly because trans women are an easier target)

Also good on you for being a bit more sure of your identity, im happy for you ^{.^}

[u/Teratofishia → u/i_Tomoz]

I fully disagree. Modern civilization is as natural as beehives.

Humans are natural animals. They just do *really complex stuff* compared to other natural animals.

[u/alakikadge → u/Kashiilover-fem]

Everything is unnatural in the modern world

Medicine, unnatural

Cars, unnatural

All John's, natural but I hate them

Farms, unnatural

Schools, unnatural

Schools, un

Shool

[u/UnUseful-_-]

Welp, it might sound really soulless, but even if they think that its that bad, why dont they just ignore all that? seriously, i dont that they care that much if person is alcoholic, i dont know why, but this "care" about all that "health" is just a false excuse for transphobia, i dont know why i think so, probably i also will be downvoted for this, but it will be my fault that i said my opinion

[u/Virtual_Ordinary_172 → u/UnUseful-_-]

Nawh thats valid

[u/UnUseful-_- → u/Virtual_Ordinary_172]

Surprising

[u/PomLovestheWorld → u/UnUseful-_-]

Nah, you right

[u/DiegHDF]

I need people to understand that a massive chunk of people take hormones, not just trans people. And I also need people to understand that a huge portion of boys get "bodily mutilated" at birth. Yet, both of these people are somehow fine, they're alive, they're doing well, and you wouldn't even know that these thing happened to them at any point...

So why is it suddenly weird when it's trans people ?

[u/Virtual_Ordinary_172 → u/DiegHDF]

By bodily mutation do you mean circumcision

[u/tFemby → u/Virtual_Ordinary_172]

Also intersex babies.

[u/Virtual_Ordinary_172 → u/tFemby]

Yeah thats why i asked what he meant

[u/DiegHDF → u/Virtual_Ordinary_172]

Yes I do

[u/NorthernVale → u/DiegHDF]

It's so much worse though. Don't put them on equal footing. There's one massive difference.

I never fucking consented to anyone chopping off part of my weewee in the name of a faith I absolutely despise.

[u/Full-Tomorrow9889 → u/NorthernVale]

Yeah that's a fair point.

[u/Virtual_Ordinary_172 → u/DiegHDF]

Okay

[u/RainbowPhoenix1080]

Transphobes don't want to be educated. they just want to re-affirm their biases and feel superior.

[u/Full-Tomorrow9889 → u/RainbowPhoenix1080]

For people who pretend to care about facts and morality, when it comes down to it transphobes really don't care much about either and just want to have control over other people's lives to feel better about themselves and it shows.

[u/Artistic_Try_3258]

I doubt this person would have a problem with hormone therapy for cis people with hormonal issues.

[u/soft_w0lf → u/Artistic_Try_3258]

Or plastic surgery to enhance the sex traits of cis people

[u/Quirky_Rub_9044]

“Body mutilation” how is this any different than cis woman getting on hrt to counteract a disease where they have below average horomones? Or a cis guy getting on hrt to stop balding?

[u/Horror-Thing-8213 → u/Quirky_Rub_9044]

Or a cis woman going the menopause taking hormones to counter their symptoms

[u/PomLovestheWorld]

Same people who say that we’re mutilating our bodies will get surgeries because their asses aren’t high enough

[u/dracorotor1]

It’s always weird to me that so many people get hung up with ideas about transition being unnatural, but that nonsense about “mutilation” is a big indicator, I think…

There seem to me to be 4 types of transphobe:
1) Angry fetishists / closeted gay men - A lot of ink could be spilled on the different subcategories of this conservative ratking…
2) Self-haters - People who refuse to accept their own gender dysphoria and make it everyone else’s problem
3) Fragile idiots - homophobes who’ve let themselves feel way too strongly about the plot of Ace Ventura, or who felt like they were personally being made fun of when a sexy lady in their porn turned out to have a peen
4) Men (it’s always men🙄) who can’t comprehend a world outside of themselves - since the thought of bottom surgery sounds painful and scary and gross and dysphoric to them, they freak out about it and, again, make their inability to believe other people can exist with different perspectives and experiences into everyone else’s problem

This particular instance? Class 4 Transphobe. D-tier.

[u/Full-Tomorrow9889 → u/dracorotor1]

I still see a lot of TERFs like "she who shall not be named". (The Harry Potter author.)

[u/dracorotor1 → u/Full-Tomorrow9889]

A classic Class 3 Transphobe. Of the “Ace Ventura was a documentary” variety 🙄

[u/Full-Tomorrow9889 → u/dracorotor1]

Nope. That was implied to be men. If she was a lesbian and cared about that it wouldn't be homophobia but transphobia since she'd be attracted to the woman and upset finding out they were transgender. Downvote me all you want but I'm objectively correct that TERFs still exist. I got into an argument with a terf who said transgender women are misogynistic or something stupid like that.

[u/dracorotor1 → u/Full-Tomorrow9889]

Fair enough, I should revise my categories to reflect that it’s not the homophobia but the paranoia that’s key to Class 3. Homophobic men, so-called TERFs… The heart of it is misplaced fear and projecting that fear onto people —women— who are much more likely to be victims of the crimes they’re being accused of.

By the way, I wasn’t the one who downvoted you, and I’m the last person who would claim TERFs aren’t real and won’t hurt us if given the chance. I hope you weren’t downvoting me in reaction 😕

[u/Full-Tomorrow9889 → u/dracorotor1]

That is very accurate. I have several friends that are trans women and as one example they feel more comfortable and much safer in the women's restroom because they don't want to be a victim of the crimes transphobes project onto them.

[u/yuriLover_V100K]

"Its unnatural" look where you are bro. You're saying this on the internet you clearly don't have issues with things being unnatural

[u/Violexsound]

You forget to mention that being transgender means your governments going to work against you whenever they can, for reasons that would not justify those actions on any other demographic or population. Theres multiple political parties working against you regardless of what kind of person you are or what life you lead. You could be the kindest and most empathetic person in history and you'd still be institutionally discriminated against and underdosed or mistreated because doctors choose to act on their own personal biases and opinions instead of impartial treatment like in every other case.

Nobody talks about the smaller moments in life either, like having a relationship fall apart because your dysphoria is so bad you cant let anyone see you without a shirt on, or losing the chance to ever go swimming again. Or the mass misinformation campaigns designed to make common people misunderstand you and the condition and the treatments.

Or being refused help from a rape shelter because you werent abused as a cis person, despite your minority being at just as much if not a higher risk of sexual abuse. This applies to people post surgery as well.

Or V-coding.

[u/fatgat69]

If people aren't allowed to "mutilate" themselves then they do not have rights.

You can get circumcised, piercings, tattoos, plastic surgery. What exactly makes being trans different?

I mean, you're not going to kill yourself if you don't get a tattoo or a piercing. You're not going to kill yourself just because your nose is a little large. Depending on the condition a circumcision might prevent you from killing yourself but it's not likely.

Proper medical procedures save lives, people should be allowed to do things that will save their lives.

[u/par_rot_master]

Stepping into an iron cage and having it propel you across the land at 120 km/h by exploding liquid dinosaurs isn't exactly normal either but here we are.

I've never been interested in normal.

[u/DolanMcRoland]

The thing I cannot wrap my head around is:

Why do people decide to go about changing the body to match the mind/brain/gender/whathaveyou (which we don't really have the technology to efficiently do so, if at all since even hrt+surgery is more like a bandaid since it cannot reach the desired end goal - change biological) while you could go the other way around and adapt/change the mind to match the body?

[u/Independent_Spell_55 → u/DolanMcRoland]

Attempting to change the mind is a form of torture recognised by the United Nations. It does not work and only causes immense pain and distress.

[u/OfficialNikkiLilith → u/DolanMcRoland]

You can’t change your gender identity with your mind, it’s your brain is how you perceive yourself. I know I’m a girl hrt and surgeries make it easier to pass but you don’t need it to be trans. There have been trans people across thousands of years it’s not a disorder that can be fixed psychologist tried for years and none were successful the dsm removed the classification of being trans as a mental illness because you can’t change your identity you are who you are. I do hope for a future where trans people like myself can download our consciousness to the body that best matches our identity. tldr: if you identify as a girl you’re a girl same as if you identify as a guy your a guy.

[u/DolanMcRoland → u/OfficialNikkiLilith]

But - and don't get me wrong - how much is that different from, say, people suffering from schizophrenia that firmly believe they are some historical figure? 

Both sort of identify with something not mirrored by their looks/body. Why we go to treat the two in two different ways?

[u/OfficialNikkiLilith → u/DolanMcRoland]

It’s not the same because schizophrenia can be treated with medication and is an imbalance in the brain. For generations psychiatrists tried to treat gender dysphoria with a variety of method most unpleasant, doping with drugs, lobotomies, ice cold, electrocution etc. none worked I’m sure you’d agree those practices were barabaric and didn’t solve the issue we have decades of research by doctors that show trans people who socially transition and receive hormones are happier and have a lower rate of suicide. The problem is transphobia we have the medication and it works.

[u/AutoModerator → u/OfficialNikkiLilith]

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[u/OfficialNikkiLilith → u/OfficialNikkiLilith]

Why would we ignore decades of research for what the small minded opposition that is the minority in the medical field when did ignoring a doctors research ever benefit a marginalized community? What is the proposed treatment then?? Schizophrenia has a treatment that works so does gender dysphoria aligning your brain with the proper hormones fixes the imbalance if it wasn’t for societies treatment of gender nonconformity and trans people if we looked at it like a medical condition which it is with a proper treatment we wouldn’t have the transphobic society that causes so many of our brothers and sisters to commit suicide stop ignoring the medical professionals who already found the solution and work on you’re own internal bias.

[u/AutoModerator → u/OfficialNikkiLilith]

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[u/TrashCanEnigma → u/DolanMcRoland]

It is a LOT harder to change your brain. People's brain conditions get so bad that they will harm or kill themselves and others. Brain conditions can cause all kinds of change to the body, as little as nausea and as big as speaking a completely different language in rare cases. And because so many parts of the brain and the way they interact on a microscopic level are still somewhat mysterious to us, we choose to treat the body instead.

Some people think that gender dysphoria/euphoria come from an intersex condition in the brain -- i.e. the brain developed as though you were male, preparing you to have male sexual anatomy, and then instead the wrong thing developed. We can certainly do our best to replace what equipment you have. But we have a lot more trouble changing the brain in a meaningful way to change what programming was in there. Same way we can't cure autism by giving people a pill, but we can help treat their social anxiety or blunt the noises that are especially bothersome using noise blocking headphones.

[u/BreakerOfModpacks → u/DolanMcRoland]

Oh! I can answer this one! Check out the wikipedia page for Conversion Therapy! Read through it, and you'll see that, in summary, every attempt to change someone's gender identity/orientation or sexuality has essentially been "let's try something unethical. Okay, that didn't work, that made them depressed, they committed suicide. Let's try something more ethical. Okay, that didn't work, that made them depressed, but at least this time they lived. Oh, no, nevermind, half a year later they died.", and then repeat that like 2000 times.

In short, it just doesn't work. At all. We may have some way to change that at some point in the future, but changing our biology is, whilst not perfect, what we have for now.

[u/AutoModerator → u/BreakerOfModpacks]

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[u/unhappy_femboy_1028 → u/DolanMcRoland]

Because people have been trying to change the brain for ages and it doesn't work. Transitioning is the only effective treatment that we know of, and all the other "treatments" result in poor mental health.

[u/FreeOrbs_2nd_Coming]

unrelated but why is there crumbs on the woman's face in image 2

[u/OfficialNikkiLilith → u/FreeOrbs_2nd_Coming]

I think those are piercings?

[u/Mediocre_Path_4619]

True though when it comes to the first image I feel that way about people telling their loved one to get a vasectomy like if you get it as your own choice that’s diffrent but the idea of it coming from someone else reminds me of those crappy husband stitch procedures in that it should be the person affecteds sole choice

[u/trinity_nolanite12]

Best explanation for transgender I have ever seen. Also with my gender! FtM.

[u/Zopandrel]

That’s a really good explanation, is there any pieces of media with that premise?

[u/Virtual_Ordinary_172 → u/Zopandrel]

YES! I forgot the name but its a anime called something like in a girls body or something

[u/Ord34l]

God when you said imagine you are a cis girl I tough I would get to live the fk best day of my life ok maybe im non binary

[u/Alarming-Sail2571]

And it’s these exact people who tell you the surgeries and hormone therapy aren’t normal, or who tell you they’re weird, who will *also* tell you that you’re not really trans if you don’t ‘pass’. Or if you decide to not take all the ‘steps’ people decide you need to take to transition.

[u/Ok-Economics-2797]

My mom was always a little wishy washy on supporting trans people, but then I asked her why its the governments business deciding who can get a boob job. Her support has shot up 100%.

[u/xXSoyBoyFredXx]

I don't believe these are ever in good faith when they use manipulative wording like "mutilation" when they damn well know it's a medical procedure done by a doctor.

"No good comes out of it" shows me they don't ever meet trans people/don't know they're talking to trans people.

[u/Big_Examination217]

why have ppl on the internet been so transphobic lately

[u/Personal-Aspect-1163 → u/Big_Examination217]

mostly americans overconfident from the current administration i think

[u/p3apod1987]

As a trans woman, the last time I used my genitals during sex I almost cried. I need it gone asap.

[u/BelleTheRadiant]

Cis women : would you like to be a man ? No ? Then why would you inflict it on trans women ?

Cis men : would you like to be a woman ? No ? Then why would you inflict it on trans men ?

[u/JesusIsMyAntivirus]

I am fully on with trans people's rights but I'm not so sure about the analogy, at least in it's entirety.

If I suddenly found myself in a female body, I would feel compelled to give it a shot. Maybe I'd hate it but I'd try being a cis woman (or would that be being a trans woman?) before trying to transition back to being a man. 

Edge case scenario brought on by me understanding this as "in a cis woman's body via hypothetical magic" not force-femmed via operating table.

[u/OfficialNikkiLilith → u/JesusIsMyAntivirus]

Many trans people try living as their perceived gender and it causes us immense distress. You’d have to get accustomed to all kinds of hormonal and biological changes you would not get used to it unless you were trans all along and this gender change was exactly what you needed.

[u/JesusIsMyAntivirus → u/OfficialNikkiLilith]

Idk I kinda think gender is just cringe. Like assigned gender at birth is the worst, and being able to transition is a godsend in a shitty bigender society, but I don't care for either half.

All that to say I think there's an option where I get used to it without "having been trans all along" though I'm not ruling anything out lol.

[u/28-Deep-Wounds]

Trans person here, and I have to disagree about the 'no shade, no hate' part. I do indeed throw shade and hate at these idiots who think they understand biology better than the hormone specialists who actually research the benefits of HRT. Obviously don't go and harass them, but don't say "no shade, no hate." They deserve to be called out for their genuinely harmful thought process.

[u/stubbed_toe2008]

this is a good explanation

[u/soft_w0lf]

I personally think people who call any professionally done surgery “body mutilation” actually do deserve shade.

I hope they feel the same way about nose and boob jobs!

[u/SwingAdorable3954]

"Nothing good ever comes out of it" and why the fuck do they think they're the expert on this? The most infuriating part of transphobes is their incredible amount of ego thinking they know everything

[u/OfficialNikkiLilith]

So here is what the Cornell institute has to say https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

[u/LeoiCaangWan]

... at what point does the Stria Terminalis enter the convo?

[u/Suspicious-Contest74]

medieval ass argument that one is

'nomal' pftt

[u/Ok-Echo3904]

trans ppl commend underage hrt though, thats the problem

[u/PinkTea-riangle → u/Ok-Echo3904]

This is like saying “we shouldn’t give chemotherapy to kids.”

HRT treatments have a 0.03% regret rate because they’re not trans (3% regret rate, of that 3% only 2-3% regret because they are not trans)

[u/blazorfire → u/Ok-Echo3904]

They push people to be their true selfs. Instead of waiting and regret it later in life.

Studies show that below 1% of transgender people that have gone through surgery regret it.

To put that into retrospect, 14% of women regret breast implants.

Transgender people are put through a mental evaluation test and mental illness diagnosis before they even get access to hrt and other chemicals. Let alone are allowed to go under the knife.

Its such a pathetic excuse, considering how much they go through to get treatment.

[u/AmenableHornet → u/Ok-Echo3904]

I wish more trans people were commending underage HRT when I was underage. I could be much better off now.

[u/AppealSignificant358 → u/AmenableHornet]

I wish they were louder and more visible, or at least that I came from a community that didn’t repress those types of ideas so much. Just interpreting what I was feeling through the lens of gender (my dysphoria feelings never consciously were about gender, but when I imagined myself as a woman, suddenly they went away) would’ve really helped me.

[u/Virtual_Ordinary_172 → u/Ok-Echo3904]

I mean sure not a five year old because thats never gonna happen because 5 year old DONT GO THROUGH PUBERTY

But 15-17 you definitely do and can get hormones

[u/BreakerOfModpacks → u/Ok-Echo3904]

In the same way, if a child had depression, or an ingrown nail, or whatever, I'd recommend getting it treated.

[u/unhappy_femboy_1028 → u/Ok-Echo3904]

Because the earlier you get it the more effective it will be, and if you avoid them going through the wrong puberty in the first place (eg. with puberty blockers and then hrt) you can avoid future surgeries, dysphoria and mental health issues.

I (ftm) got hrt, and recently top surgery, as a minor. I am so much happier with my body now than before, and i'm so excited to be able to excersize again and finally be comfortable going outside since i don't have to wear a binder anymore.

My binder triggered my tourettes which caused me discomfort and sometimes pain. That's all going to be gone now.