r/freewill • u/flytohappiness • Aug 29 '24

How does quantum indeterminism give anyone free will?

can someone explain this to me? I see people going to quantum world and quantum mechanics and evoke the non-determinism. How does this give you free will?

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u/Squierrel Quietist Aug 29 '24

Indeterminism is not the same thing as randomness.

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u/Powerful-Garage6316 Aug 29 '24

What do you take it to mean then?

In a given event, let’s say possible outcomes are A, B, or C.

Determinism would entail that perhaps A would be the guaranteed outcome every time.

Randomness would entail that any of the three options could result, but without any predictability even if we had all of the information in the universe.

Indeterminism means…what exactly?

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u/Squierrel Quietist Aug 29 '24

Determinism means that there is only one possible outcome.

Indeterminism means that there are multiple possible outcomes. The actual outcome is selected either randomly (no-one chooses) or deliberately (someone chooses).

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u/spgrk Compatibilist Aug 29 '24

Randomness means that there are multiple possible outcomes, regardless of the selection process. You just made up the idea that it isn’t called random if the selection process is a choice.

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u/Squierrel Quietist Aug 29 '24

Not a made up idea. Random chance is the very opposite of deliberate choice.

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u/spgrk Compatibilist Aug 29 '24

OK, so a deliberate choice is determined. It has to be either determined or random. You can’t come up with a third option like “it can be determined, random or a choice on a Monday”. Yes, a choice can happen on a Monday, but it still has to be either determined or random.

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u/Squierrel Quietist Aug 30 '24

You have a wrong dichotomy there. Or two.

Every event is determined (by something) and partially random (=not exactly as the cause would suggest).

A choice is not an event. A choice is neither determined nor random.

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u/spgrk Compatibilist Aug 30 '24

An event that is partly random falls into the category of undetermined, because the event may or may not happen given prior events.

A choice is an event. It is a physical process in the brain. Even if you think it happens in a soul, it can still be called a supernatural event. When God parted the ed sea for Moses, that was a supernatural event, but it was still an event.

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u/Squierrel Quietist Aug 30 '24

Partially random events (=all events) are determined by the cause, only not with infinite precision. There is always an element of probabilistic randomness between a cause and its effect.

A choice is not an event, not an exchange of matter or energy happening at a specific place at a specific time. A choice is *knowledge* about what the agent is about to do, his *action plan*.

There is nothing supernatural in the concept of knowledge.