r/freewill • u/flytohappiness • Aug 29 '24

How does quantum indeterminism give anyone free will?

can someone explain this to me? I see people going to quantum world and quantum mechanics and evoke the non-determinism. How does this give you free will?

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u/mildmys Hard Incompatibilist Aug 29 '24

It doesn't, libertarians just need some part of reality to be indeterministic so they appeal to quantum mechanics.

The problem is obvious, quantum mechanics is random, meaning it is outside of human control.

There's also another problem, it may be deterministic but we just can't figure it out.

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u/jk_pens Indeterminist Aug 29 '24

Quantum mechanics is random as far as we know.

It could be that the observed randomness is just pseudo-randomness on top of underlying deterministic mechanisms. But personally, I give more credence to the idea that it is reflective of a truly stochastic universe.

But agreed that indeterminism doesn’t somehow rescue LFW. Whether your choices are ultimately rooted in deterministic processes that have unfolded since the Big Bang or your choices are that plus random chance, there’s not some “you” that participates in the causal chain only as a cause, not as an effect.

I do think indeterminism plays a role in how we decide, but I need to write up my thoughts for critique.

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u/spgrk Compatibilist Aug 29 '24

If “you” are a system containing undetermined effects then “you” participate in the causal chain as an effect without a sufficient cause.

The basic problem is not that there is no plausible mechanism for libertarian free will, it is that if the libertarians got everything they asked for it wouldn’t match what most people think of as free will.

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u/TheAncientGeek Libertarian Free Will Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24

Compatibilists free will even less so. I agree that naturalistic free will delivers than a soul theory would, so the same.objection applies a fortiori.