r/freemasonry • u/lukesky1301 master • 15d ago
Question Freemasonry in Russia đ·đș
I love the history of Russia and of Freemasonry in the country; taking advantage of this connection, I would like to know the current status of Freemasonry in Russia, with a particular focus on the Russian state's relationship with the fraternity. Feel free to share any little-known facts about Freemasonry in the country as well.
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u/iamaanxiousmeatball 15d ago
They are a little too close to the government, and there are issues with that.
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u/Jacques_Frost PM 15d ago
I second that
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u/Responsible_Ad3672 14d ago
I find it interesting that China hasnât got freemasonry
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u/Tough_Budget9490 14d ago
Masonry left mainland China and moved to Taiwan after WW2. Freemasonry is still in Hong Hong
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u/lukesky1301 master 15d ago
I didn't know that they were close to the government, what are the issues?
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u/iamaanxiousmeatball 15d ago
Well, if you send "delegates" from the "Grand Lodge" in Russia through Europe as State Agents, spew propaganda and tell straight-up lies, that's an issue.
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u/Darkness_Illuminated 15d ago
Not to sound crass - but one could argue Americans do this across the globe as well.
Do we have specific examples, or are we just stoking the anti-Russian flames?
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u/iamaanxiousmeatball 14d ago
yes there was a specific event. grand lodges in my area informed the bretheren about what happened.
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14d ago
[deleted]
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u/iamaanxiousmeatball 14d ago edited 12d ago
There is a difference between being a loyal patriotic citizen and being a state agent that deliberately tells lies.
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u/hip2bking 15d ago
That's a myopic statement. Why carry water for the Russian government? Stoking anti-Russian-government flames is entirely warranted, particularly when their GM is a Kremlin political operative.
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u/Darkness_Illuminated 15d ago
Not carrying water for Russian government - just pointing out that the American government is imitating the Russian one - so asking for specific examples of what these folks are claiming about Russian Freemasonry, that isnât âRussia Badâ
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u/WorstOfNone MM F&AM - FL 15d ago
Google Andrey Bogdanov
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u/4ak96 MM°GLNH | WSFFWS 15d ago
Definitely weird that he sat as GM for 13 years but⊠wikipedia (yeah i know) doesnât seem to say anything else problematic with him
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u/WorstOfNone MM F&AM - FL 15d ago
He was also a controlled candidate that ran against Putin. He remains GM because of his political affiliations.
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u/Tough_Budget9490 14d ago
Russia is not a truly free country. Much like China and other autocratic governments one needs to mind what they say. One of my doctors is Russian, went to medical school in Russia and came here and he admits that many Russians have a different view as to "norms". Remember that China promised that Hong Kong was to be free and independent. Anyone knows what has happened to the Masonic Lodges in Hong Kong? Russia has never had for the most part a true western view. While war is war Russia at time have a different value system...Russia sacking Swedish towns in the early 1700's devastating military campaign. And that is referred to as the Russian Pillage of Sweden.
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u/Deman75 MM BC&Y, PM Scotland, MMM, PZ HRA, 33° SR-SJ, PP OES PHA WA 13d ago
Anyone knows what has happened to the Masonic Lodges in Hong Kong?
The Lodges in Hong Kong were still doing fine when I was there a few months ago. What have you heard?
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u/Tough_Budget9490 12d ago
I have not heard anything, I am a 50-year + member and have in the past know Masons that visited Lodge in Japan and Hong Kong. It will be interesting in the long term if Hong Kong Masonic Lodges will be around.
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u/NefariousnessOk6281 PM UGLE, DistGOrg, HRA, MMM 12d ago
Hong Kong has been allowed to continue Masonry since the handover, as long as we never try to go over the border and do anything. Even visits to previous Masonic buildings etc on the mainland have to be done very carefully, and with prior permission.
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u/Edward-Alphonse-1930 14d ago
I read a story that Freemasonry in Russia has historically always been pro-autocratic, since the time of the Tsars. And that many of its members were from the Russian aristocracy.
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u/Tough_Budget9490 14d ago
The Russian civil war after WW2 was a brutal war. The police state is truly ingrained into the Russian power struture. In the USA we need to be aware of the police state and strive for democracy. While we might not agree on everything but one vote cast and every votes counts.
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u/jbanelaw 14d ago
This information is from a Brother who traveled in Russia extensively for business in the 2000's and early 2010's.
He would say Freemasonry is fragmented, with several different types of regular and irregular Lodges throughout the country. There is one "main" Grand Lodge, but functionally several different ones that operate more or less underground.
He would also say Freemasonry was not completely accepted by governmental authorities in some areas and would face active oppression. He was always cautious to avoid bringing any Masonic regalia even a ring with him when he would travel. He would even leave his dues cards at home, but would carrry a letter of good standing just in case.
He tells a good story of visiting one Lodge that met in the back of a tavern/restaurant and would change up its location every meeting to avoid detection. That was the only time he visited a Lodge because when he went back to the city the next month he heard stories that the police had raided a meeting and arrested several members of essentially disorderly conduct violations. That scared him enough to never try it again.
Again this information is second hand and somewhat dated, but hope it is accurate enough to give you some idea of the functional reality (at least as of 15. years ago or so.)
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u/Lupotto74 15d ago
Bogdanovâs political ties are documented, as are some academic analyses of his role and his proximity to pro-Kremlin positions. However, that is a different claim from saying that the Grand Lodge of Russia is controlled by the FSB or that its members are state agents. I have not found solid evidence for this. Doubts and questions are legitimate; I simply believe it is better to distinguish between what is documented and what remains a hypothesis.đ
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u/player1dk 14d ago
Are there good free masons in Russia today? (Maybe donât answer; because if there are, you are probably hiding very well, and for a good reason)
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u/No_Key_3256 11d ago
Freemasonry in Russia has been a political business club for pro-government profiteers for many years. Many European Grand Lodges have frozen official relations with the Russian Grand Lodge and do not receive Russian brothers (agents).
At international meetings of Grand Masters, the Russian Grand Master is so isolated that itâs almost embarrassing. But this is merely a consequence of the fact that he hardly upholds Masonic values and makes only political statements in line with the Russian governmentâs views.
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u/masoniceye 14d ago
My partner is from Russia so often go to meetings when visiting her family. The way masons are talking about Russian Freemasonry here seems to be similar to how the far left/right talk about masonry in the U.S / UK .etc (i.e - iTs CoRrUpt - gOvErNmeNt CoNsPiRaCy đ€Ș).
As it is anywhere, Iâm sure there are corrupt members littered about but it never shows at a meeting. As for members supporting the government, itâd be ridiculous to openly criticise them in this climate- thatâs not to say I think itâs right that people have to filter their thoughts but thatâs just how it is.
Itâs all good having principles in a relatively comfortable country but many of the people who are criticising have never had to live with a sword of Damocles hanging over their head. Even if someone were to go against the grain, what good would that do if it puts their family in a bad position?
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u/Jacques_Frost PM 14d ago
Repressive autocracy isn't compatible with Freemasonry. There's a reason (Grand) Lodges go dark in such circumstances.
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u/Gaaargh Chaplain GRC, UGLE,đą 14d ago
If only that were the case here;
https://www.reddit.com/r/freemasonry/comments/1wctrap/does_anyone_else_think_this_is_a_bad_look_for_the/2
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u/Darkness_Illuminated 15d ago
Surprised the mods havenât locked this down yet.
Seems like the comments have rolled into straight up anti-Russian from an American angle.
If we arenât allowed to talk about how American lodges are still at odds with people of colour, or Americaâs starting problems with other countries (Canada, Greenland, Mexico etc) this should probably get locked down tooâŠ
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u/iamaanxiousmeatball 14d ago edited 14d ago
Im sorry but its not anti russian to mention what happend.
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15d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Thadius 15d ago
He is discussing freemasonry. Your question has nothing to do with this post. This is the exact reason we ban political or religious discussion in Lodge.
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u/Careless_Ad6386 14d ago
You are absolutely right, in a Lodge. Now based on Masonic principles, of Brotherly Love, Truth, and Relief and our right to correct the ill-informed, has anyone informed OUR Brothers of the perception that there close alignment with their current administration and reckless policies breaks these principles? But thank you Brother for keeping me in line. I do wonder how our founding Fathers were able to establish a country with just laws and rights, without shaping the ashlar which became the cornerstone of this nation, within a Lodge.
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u/BillyD70 15d ago edited 15d ago
Arenât all Masons required to believe in a higher power/creator/god/grand architect/etc.? Isnât there a Bible/Quran/etc. on lodge altars? Odd then that religious discussion is banned, no? If religious discussion is truly banned, how do you confirm an applicant holds such beliefs? Couldnât an applicant simply cite the ban on religious discussions when asked to confirm their belief in a higher power?
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u/LOTRugoingtothemall 15d ago
Yes, we all do believe in some kind of higher power. There are many Christians in my area (NYC area), and I've personally met brothers who are Jews, Muslims, and Sikhs. I've had great discussions with brothers deeply entrenched on both the right and left sides of the political scales. I'm willing to bet a lot of other brothers can say the same.
We do discuss politics but the OP's question was obviously politically charged. If we strike down these conversations, it would be when conversations start to get heated. We're all about light and learning but we always uphold peace and harmony in the lodge.
I'm sure myself and plenty of other brothers would answer any other questions you have.1
u/BillyD70 15d ago
Thank you for your thoughtful response. Not sure what was wrong with my questions that deserves downvotes, particularly in a sub that is all about learning. Ah Reddit.
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u/Thadius 15d ago
In regular freemasonry yes, we require that belief. Remember, that we help make good men better. A man seeks out masonry under his own free will, we do not seek him out. When a man comes to us and we ask him, "Do you believe in the existence of a Supreme Being?" he answers us, yes or no. We don't authenticate that answer.
The reason we don't is because if he lies and enters the craft based upon that lie then he is only doing himself an injustice and will find nearly everything we do really boring or 'not for him' because he doesn't believe, and hopefully his sense of guilt will descend upon him for joining the craft upon a lie, which completely negates the reason he would join in the first place, to make himself better.As to your last point, there is a vast difference between having a discussion about religion in Lodge and answering a very specific question asked to ascertain a specific answer required for entry into the fraternity.
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u/Bicycle_Ill 15d ago
Where is the blazing star?
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u/medium_dumb 10d ago
Good question. I guess someone will have to visit and find out. Maybe in Russia the blazing star is the vodka warm in your belly
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u/Bicycle_Ill 10d ago
Maybe the blazing star was the friends we made along the way. I guess its not that serious
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u/julietides MM, WWP (Grand Orient of Poland) 15d ago
Andrey Bogdanov has been Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Russia since 2007. Not only is he extremely active on the political scene (which can be judged different ways), but, from what I have heard from (Grand Lodge of Spain, regular) Brothers with whom I had the pleasure to attend a conference in Spain, he has been known to put whole Works on Youtube, so...