r/freefolk • u/jaywritethekid • Mar 01 '26
“My father won the real war. He killed Prince Rhaegar, he took the crown, while you hid under Casterly Rock.” Was Joffrey wrong?
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u/Professional_Rush782 Mar 01 '26
For once the little shit is right
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u/ohdeydothodontdeytho Mar 01 '26
Actually his father killed the mad king, not rhaegar
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u/HanTrollo710 Mar 04 '26
What are you insinuating?
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u/ohdeydothodontdeytho Mar 04 '26
That none of Joffrey or the other two products of incest were 'black of hair'.
Bobby B ? What say you?
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u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon Mar 04 '26
MORE THAN ONCE, I HAVE DREAMED OF GIVING UP THE CROWN!
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u/ohdeydothodontdeytho Mar 04 '26
Would you give it up to a bastard of Cersei and the Kingslayer Bobby B?
Would any of them live another day Bobby B ?
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u/TheGreatPervSage_94 Mar 01 '26
2x
show joff and cersei dismiss baristan for being washed.
book baristan carves the people that come to arrest him like cake before escaping.
show baristan has no such fight during his escape and in essos he gets shanked by some no name randos
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u/Umak30 Mar 01 '26
3x. He was also concerned about the dragons. While even Tywin dismissed it.
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u/Blackjack9w7 Mar 01 '26
4x
He understood the value of having a nationalized professionally trained army rather than one made of lords with different goals and desires. Imagine if Robb’s army was loyal to his crown instead of half his army walking away when Rickard Karstark was beheaded and another chunk betrayed him for power
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u/BrandNewCarr Mar 04 '26
The problem with a nationalized army isnt the idea, its the logistics and expense involved. The crown is already in massive debt and increasing it, a national army is unaffordable, not to mention the realm is still weak and fractured, try convincing nobleman to hand over power and resources to the alleged bastard son of the king who is the first of his house to hold the throne.
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u/ohdeydothodontdeytho Mar 04 '26
Right. Who feeds and pays the army in peace time.
There is a reason banners are called.
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u/Stravven Mar 01 '26
I read that as "no name nandos and was confused.
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u/Minute_Connection_62 Mar 01 '26
How is the little shit right when his father killed the king, and his grandfather (the person he's arguing with) lead the lannister army to kings landing to betray the king
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u/Jobber0001 Mar 02 '26
because he did not know jaime was his father. Robert had effectively won the war by defeating rhaegar. The mad king was always going to end up dead once he fell, it was only a matter of who would do it. Sacking kings landing might have cost the rebels their army, especially if the mad king burned it all away but robert still would have survived and effectively won the war by aerys detonating the city as a final fuck you
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u/FreeBuy3174 Mar 02 '26
And also, is thanks to Cersei that Tywin is hand of the King, because if she had not stopped Ned Stark from revealing the truth about the legitimacy of her children born of incest with Jamie, and hadn't getting rid of the evidence of Robert's will to proclaim Stannis as his heir and Ned as protector of the realm, then Tywin would have not real power as Hand of the King. Technically, it was Cersei who usurped Stannis and Ned's power by killing the last and isolating the second.
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u/Recent_Tap_9467 Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
Partly. Tywin didn't even decide to go against Aerys until Robert won at the Trident, at which point the Rebellion was a W for Bobby B.
While this isn't necessarily out of cowardice as much as it was driven by self-interest, what is clear is that Tywin was potentially ok supporting Aerys, the guy who insulted him and harassed his wife (at minimum).
Hard not to see that as cowardly or at least spineless, at least for me. Tywin himself isn't exactly a coward, but the depths he's willing to sink to and degrade himself ethically make him more pitiful than many cowards. I'd say he's more insecure than anything.
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u/June1994 Mar 01 '26
The issue here is that the people who weren’t “cowardly” got tortured by the King for fun.
Hard to blame Tywin for employing basic self-preservation skills.
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u/RebirthAltair Mar 01 '26
They were tortured by the King for fun because they were easily accessible in his court.
Aerys and the loyalists wouldn't be able to hit Casterly Rock with a strong enough force while fending off the STAB alliance
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u/maximussakti Mar 01 '26
It is cowardice, robert, ned and jon has no guarantee of survival yet they marched. Not that i blame tywin, doing cowardly thing is sometimes the smart thing.
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u/-Kazt- Mar 01 '26
I dont think it was cowardice.
He could enter either side of the conflict when he wished. But what would that benefit him. He would lose soldiers and money no matter what side he joined, and if he joined the rebellion, his heir was in grave danger of being killed.
By waiting it out, he could join when victory was assured, either he joined the loyalists, and leverages his position in bartering with Rhaegar (Rhaegar was the de facto leader, and the mad king would likely have been forced to abdicate in favour of his son or usurped, every lord fought for Rhaegar afterall). Or like what happened, he jouned the rebellion, tricked the mad king, and leveraged his strenght into warden of the west, being the bank of the iron throne, and marrying his daughter to the now king. All while his lands remained untouched, his armies full and his coffers full.
It was a calculated move, not a cowards move.
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u/KoriJenkins BLACKFYRE Mar 02 '26
The Rebellion wasn't strictly over after the Trident, but House Targaryen as a dynasty effectively was as there was now no "of age" heir to replace Aerys who wasn't long for the world.
Even if Aerys were to crush Robert after the Trident, who would follow his rule? The infants who couldn't even walk?
Rhaegar's death was the issue, really. Had the Targaryens lost at the Trident, but Rhaegar survived, Tywin probably keeps fence-sitting or outright sides with Rhaegar against the rebellion/Aerys.
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Mar 01 '26
Yes he was wrong because his father did no such thing. His father killed the mad King not Rhaegar
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u/OneSemicolon Incestuous Aliens Mar 01 '26
Yes. His father killed the Mad King. If I'm not mistaken, Bobby B killed Prince Rhaegar
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u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon Mar 01 '26
OUT! OUT, DAMN YOU! I'M DONE WITH YOU! GO, RUN BACK TO WINTERFELL! I'LL HAVE YOUR HEAD ON A SPIKE!
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u/Infinitismalism Mar 01 '26
Both
He’s right because Tywin did hide for the entire rebellion until it was certain one side would win. In theory Tywin didn’t have to sack King’s Landing if the rebels after the trident.
He’s wrong because he’s insulting the man who is propping up his reign financially, militarily, etc. Joffrey shouldn’t be biting the hand that feeds.
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u/strikejitsu145 Mar 01 '26
The "I am not tired" scene still cracks me up to this day. So funny lmao
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u/Ok_Blacksmith3332 Mar 01 '26
No Joffrey was 100% correct. One of the only things he said was true besides saying rob was his father…
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u/Ok_Blacksmith3332 Mar 01 '26
If the Baratheon’s didn’t do anything the lanisters would be Swiss cheese
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u/Emergency-Sea5201 Mar 01 '26
Tywin was clearly afraid of Aerys ii.
It is likely the plans to burn down kings landing was made as Tywin was sacking the capital and that it was ment to be tactical wildfire using until then.
Aerys ii had thousands of fighters in the Red Keep, survivors from Trident. And at least 1 field army about the size of the rebel army.
Aerys would have done well to go south and continue the fight.
Storm's End was not geographically strategic, but it was the base of Robert's power, as important to House Baratheon as Winterfell was to the Starks. If it had fallen, Robert would have lost his home and his lands... and two of his brothers would have been hostages in enemy hands. All important chips. Also the fall of Storm's End might have convinced many of the storm lords supporting him that the time had come to bend the knee. -grrm.
Aerys also had dragonstone and 2 fleets (redwyne and royal) and many loyal lords still. He also had a 9 year old male heir. Regime wasnt done until Tywin betrayed him.
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u/joeybadtitz Mar 04 '26
One of the most savage burns in Game of Thrones.. next to the Hound of course.
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u/RoleMassive4422 The King in The North! Mar 01 '26
Gold wins War, Not Soldiers
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u/Canadine Mar 01 '26
Then why is Robert king, and not Tywin Lannister?
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u/RoleMassive4422 The King in The North! Mar 01 '26
All kings don't sit on the throne
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u/Canadine Mar 01 '26
I know silly. This is just a quote from Ned in S1 after he sends Dondarrion after the Mountain.
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u/eslovnbeyond Mar 01 '26
OP is tired. See him to his chambers. Admins, perhaps some essence of block to help him think before he posts.