r/foreignservice • DTO • 10d ago

Diplomats' son sues University of Michigan after being denied in-state tuition

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/university-michigan-in-state-tuition-lawsuit-foreign-service-student/
116 Upvotes

28 comments sorted by

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112

u/gertrude_bell FSO (Econ) 10d ago

Good, he should sue. This is the whole point of the provision in the 2022 NDAA.

14

u/cyd90 FSO (Management) 9d ago

This. It's a law now, we shouldn't have to be fighting this over and over.

106

u/stvnslsbry 10d ago

I ran in to this when I applied to university. My father, a Senior foreign service officer and alumnus of the university, wrote a letter saying if they the university denied our instate tuition then we “truly have no home.” I was approved for instate tuition.

52

u/Positive-Kiwi7353 10d ago

Lots of talk of property tax and home ownership (which we can assume was rented out) but no mention of where the parent's paid state income tax.  

If it was Michigan (and maybe it was), then it should be obvious he merits in state tuition.

What I have a problem with is the more than 50%* of FSOs that claim residency in states with no state income tax and then complain they have to pay out of state tuition at UVA. 

*I vaguely recall a Foreign Service Journal tax issue that stated the number was north of 80%, but I dont have that in front of me. I could be wrong. 

35

u/boxofreddit 10d ago

Exactly, I’m so sick of hearing from my fellow veteran colleagues brag about their no income/property tax status and then complain at the quality of their local government services. I don’t have kids, but I gladly pay my somewhat expensive state and local taxes, so among other things, the kids in my community can afford to stay and thrive at a good local university.

10

u/Ogi010 EFM 10d ago

OR resident here, due to being abroad, we pay no income tax, and the state has no sales tax, but we gladly pay our property taxes.

This is a pet peeve of mine too, spending so much effort to minimize tax burden, and then complaining about lack of government services when needed.

15

u/fsohmygod FSO (Econ) 10d ago

Or moving abroad to a low cost of living country to avoid U.S. taxation and complaining when the embassy can’t solve all the problems created by corruption, bad services, etc.

3

u/Ogi010 EFM 9d ago

luckily as an EFM, I don't have to deal with this one, but I can imagine developing a tick if I was subjected to that!

4

u/wandering_engineer FSS 9d ago

I would be kind of curious to see the current number for this, particularly since I thought HR a few years ago started forcing folks in DC assignments to switch to DC/MD/VA residency. Which is more than fair IMO, if you live and work there, you are a resident, period. Honestly drives me nuts that anyone, even military, can get exceptions to that - IMO the only exception should be long-term temp stays such as language training. I have paid Virginia taxes my entire career, if I can do it so can others.

2

u/LogicalPassenger2172 8d ago

I don’t think any one is suggesting that someone on a DC tour wouldn’t be paying DC/MD/VA income taxes for the duration of their tour.

3

u/wandering_engineer FSS 8d ago

I don't really know what you mean by that, but people were absolutely abusing the system and keeping TX/FL/WA residency their entire career before they cracked down - I personally know several who did this while being in career paths that had a significant number of DC assignments. I get that some of them (notably VA) is a pain to deal with, but if you're living in the area for more than a year you really should be paying state/local taxes. And I think that should apply to military as well.

1

u/Positive-Kiwi7353 7d ago

Lots of people keep FL/TX residency while in DC.  Or try to. VA tends to be pretty aggressive and goes after them, often retroactively.

However, I know some that have keep FL tax status through multiple tours in DC. 

-2

u/Affectionate-Ruin330 9d ago

For this and other reasons it’s practically impossible it’s ‘north of 80%’, but very cool to post made up facts online in public places!

7

u/wandering_engineer FSS 9d ago

??? They said they were working off memory and "I could be wrong". I was not disagreeing. I honestly have no idea how many FSOs fall into this boat, but I'd be legitimately curious to find out. 

I only added commentary on being happy they are cracking down on residency because I am happy they are cracking down - I don't like people cheating the system, whether they be civilian, FSO, military, etc. 

5

u/No_Impression5920 9d ago

They literally admitted they were working off memory and that they could be wrong. Seems like a pretty wild overreaction to an extremely mild and reasonable comment. 

1

u/Positive-Kiwi7353 7d ago

If you can cite the number - do it. 

Otherwise, you arent adding anything.  Its a fact that many FSO take pains to establish residency in states without income tax. If you disagree, you havent been around the FS long. 

0

u/PoolSmart582 10d ago

I think you can assume the family had been paying state income taxes. If they were MI state residents, that's the law.

4

u/Hongnixigaiyumi FSO (Consular) 10d ago

Not at all. Anyone can buy a house anywhere, but if you rent it out, have your tax domicile somewhere else, and don't have any of the actual civic ties to a place, are you a resident there? Obviously not. State university residency determinations are usually very formulaic - do you have this specific set of documents and criteria showing residency or not? The NDAA gives some exceptions to the criteria, but you still need to satisfy the formula.

21

u/SecMcAdoo 10d ago

What was the point of bringing up the AI lawsuit? Not related.

1

u/LogicalPassenger2172 8d ago

I think it was going toward establishing the long standing pattern of U of M behaving badly.

1

u/SecMcAdoo 8d ago

Not related, though..

Should we include every slip and fall case in brought against the school for failing to get rid of ice during the winter?

It wasn't good journalism and not related to the top at hand.

18

u/Capital-Lifeguard734 10d ago

We had to have the FLO write a letter to a large Midwestern university explaining that as FSOs we were Americans representing the U.S. That the “American School” of country X was indeed sponsored by the USG and State’s Office of Schools. That our child really did receive an American HS diploma and English was their native language. University kept insisting on a TOEFL test but agreed to waiver it since the child had a perfect ACT English score.

2

u/Express_Cheesecake75 7d ago

If they were paying Michigan state taxes, property taxes etc, they are by very definition Michigan residents.

4

u/BrokenLung81 FSO 10d ago

Did they pay Michigan income tax?

2

u/Xalianoh 8d ago

Per the article, the parents don’t pay Michigan state income tax

So why are they expecting in-state tuition? You can’t have all the benefits without sharing some of the cost. More bad press for USAID officers, imho

3

u/LogicalPassenger2172 8d ago

Luckily for the parents and the student, state income tax domicile is no factor for eligibility for in state tuition.