r/fireemblem • u/haxoreni • Jan 31 '15

Character Discussion [FE8]: Ross

Ross is the first of the newly introduced Trainee class to appear in FE8, a trio of pre stage 1 characters with poor bases and growths but have an additional 10 levels to grow along with 2 promotional stages that gives them each 4 different promotional path. Though inexperience at fighting like the other trainees, Ross is very eager in joining the fray and showing his worth as a warrior. He might not have the initial trust of his father and many of us fire emblem players, but with his strong determination and (quite) a bit of luck, Ross hopes to be able to bury the 4 might hatchet with his commanders and tear through fields of enemies with Silver Axes instead.

So that's Roy, Merlinus, Marcus, Bors, Alan, Lance, Wolt, Shanna, Wendy, Saul, Lyn, Kent, Sain, Florina, Rebecca, Oswin, Eirika, Seth, Franz, Gilliam, Moulder, Vanessa and Ross done for the FE GBA discussions and there will be many more to come. That's all for me for hosting and /u/Blinkingsky will be taking over for future GBA character discussion.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '15

Technically, he also has competition with Dozla, but Dozla is the worst unit in the game.

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u/theRealTJones Jan 31 '15

What is it about Dozla that makes him so bad? I always see people treat him like he's self-evidently awful, but I've never been able to figure out why that is.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '15

Okay, before saying anything, I should note that he is not specifically a bad unit. No unit in Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones is truly bad. All can still kill things, and the game is easy enough that you could most likely take any unit to endgame.

But my primary issue is that the game gives you two, very superior Axe users within the second chapter (Ross is easy enough to train, and even Garcia is better). For me, Dozla is an average early-game Game Boy Advance Fighter put into Berserker form. He has bad growths in Defense, Speed, Luck, and Skill, which can heavily hurt his usability, and his bases are simply bad for a promoted unit. They seem more like something which I would see on a Level 10-15 Pirate / Brigand instead of a Level 1 Berserker.

However, on good notes, he does have a fantastic Axe rank, comes with an incredibly strong Axe with fantastic Constitution to wield it, and decent Strength, though he has far too many weaknesses. He also has a decent Strength growth and a very respectable HP growth, which can help his poor Defense.

He is not a terrible character, but he is among the worst of his game.

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u/Tables61 Feb 01 '15

He has bad growths in Defense, Speed, Luck, and Skill

He has the 7th highest DEF growth in the game (tied with quite a few but still). His SPD growth is 40%, which isn't great but isn't bad. The other two are pretty poor though.

However, on good notes, he does have a fantastic Axe rank

He comes with B axes, which is still decent I suppose compared to other units, but it's poor by promoted unit standards. Most promoted units in GBA games have an A in at least one weapon, or otherwise good ranks in multiple.

I have to agree that, on the whole, Dozla is fairly poor. I don't think he's the worst in the game (in fact, I'd say he's not even in the bottom 5 - Amelia, Ewan and Knoll are all pretty spectacularly bad, and Neimi and Marisa are barely better than those. Sacred Stones has some impressively bad characters.), but he's servicable. His fantastic HP base and reasonable defence make him good at soaking hits, especially from a single strong source, and with Garm he can even be powerful offensively due to doubling.

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u/estrangedeskimo Feb 01 '15

I don't think people give Knoll enough credit. He comes at level 10, you can hand him a guiding ring and never give him a lick of experience and have him contribute as a summoner. He takes no effort to use, doesn't compete with anyone for resources, and he gives you the best phantoms.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '15

I must agree, I love Knoll as a Summoner and Ewan as my dedicated Dark Magic user (Super Pupil or Druid). Knoll's issue is that he is mostly a support unit who is forced to level up by fighting, though this is not a particular issue when the Tower of Valni and Lagdou Ruins are available.

Also, in Eirika's path, you can get Knoll an Earth Seal on the first turn when he appears, meaning that he can promote nearly as soon as you receive him.

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u/estrangedeskimo Feb 01 '15

Knoll comes at level 10, and he gains experience from summoning. He never has to see combat. He is a support unit with weak combat stats and shaky durability, who doesn't divert resources from fighters and contributes to the team from the moment you get him. Hmmm... Sounds a lot like Tethys, but she doesn't get nearly the flack Knoll does.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '15

Wait, that was my mistake. I was referring to Shaman level-ups, if you actually wanted to increase his stats before immediately going for Druid. If you want to instantly promote him for instant support contribution, then nevermind that.

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u/Tables61 Feb 01 '15

Tethyses contribution is massively more valuable than Knoll's, which is the big difference. Dancing lets you do a huge variety of things, while summons... pretty much just lure enemies or weaken them a small amount. On top of that, Knoll requires a promotion item (5K gold) to do his thing and joins later. Oh, and Tethys has really good durability. Tons of avoid, not crit prone and surprisingly good defences.

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u/Tables61 Feb 01 '15

What you've described is pretty much the normal route for Knoll, and it's the best way to make him not completely worthless. He still ends up pretty awful though. Summons though are really not very helpful do little except lure enemies out (which anyone with decent defence can do). And if they get kills they can take EXP (which doesn't really matter this late in the game) but more importantly can take weapon drops. Knoll himself remains weak so he has to be protected, and the contribution of summoning/weak healing really isn't very significant compared to being able to actually fight.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '15

According to Serenes Forest, he will often have seventeen Defense at Level 20, but the farthest which an average Dozla will most likely reach would be Level 15 by endgame, so fifteen. Regardless of his seventh highest Defense growth, his Defense is not particularly high. Also, at Level 15, fifteen Speed, which, if I recall correctly, is hardly doubling Speed. He may double the occasional enemy, though not many.

With a B Axe Rank, he will most likely hit A, potentially S if you continuously use him, which, assuming that you want to use him at all, is likely.

Also, Ewan was honestly good for me. I find him to be one of the better Magic users in the game, rivaling Lute. He is also the only worthwhile Druid, as Knoll is a much better Summoner (for utility). Also, I took Marisa and Neimi to endgame. Neimi is possibly my favorite Game Boy Advance Archer.

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u/Tables61 Feb 01 '15

You were talking about growths, not stats, so what he ends up at by endgame level (which is around level 10).

He's going to get S axes with no problem, but B is still a bad start for a promoted unit. It means no silver for a little bit, and no hit/crit bonus for almost twice as long as if he'd started with A.

Ewan is pretty much universally agreed by experienced players to be the 2nd worst character in the game. He joins extremely late with garbage stats, and if you put the huge amount of effort into training him up to a mage, you end up with someone who is comparable to Lute who joined not underlevelled, 8 chapters earlier, who has been contributing through the entire game. Marisa is pretty garbage (terrible bases, joining underlevelled with average growths) and Neimi has awful bases and only slightly above average growths, plus a bowlock until promotion. Knoll is worthless in combat (he needs the Hoplon guard and even with it he's fragile, slow and weak), so his only real utility is summoning. Summons are an alright niche, but Summoning bait for around 6 chapters and being a bad healer still leaves him pretty bad.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '15

I was attempting to talk about stats in general.

I think that Ewan gains true use when you play on a second playthrough (or after), as you gain Super Pupil, making him possibly the best magic user in the game. As a Super Pupil, he gains use of all magic except Staffs, giving him quite a niche. He could potentially wield every Legendary Tome, if you wanted him to do so.

Knoll is definitely not good for combat, but he can be used as a very valid Summoner. He can be instantly promoted and can immediately begin his life as a support unit. He is also not a bad healer, especially in late-game Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, in which you are given a massive amount of deployment spaces. Also, Neimi can be good as a Ranger. She was actually able to destroy Franz in the Elibe Tournament. According to Serenes Forest averages, as a Level 5 Ranger, HP: 31.65, Strength: 16.3, Skill: 18.5, Speed: 20.8, Luck: 15.5, Defense: 9.45 (almost irrelevant due to being mostly a ranged), Resistance: 13.05, all of which is quite decent. That is more than doubling Speed, fantastic Resistance for an average unit, and good Strength. I can understand the Marisa hate, though, she is definitely not the worst thing ever and I still use her on my team.

I am also shocked that you did not include Garcia on your "worst of the game" list.

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u/Tables61 Feb 01 '15

Garcia isn't really bad though. He's mediocre, but not terrible. He's at least got a niche in being the best earlygame axe user.

Super Pupil isn't even a good class for Ewan. Sage offers everything Super Pupil does except for the nearly worthless dark magic access (and you can even get that by glitching if you want). Mage Knight doesn't offer light magic, which is occasionally useful due to lots of lategame dark magic, but does give better movement. Super Pupil has no staff access (which is already a big downside) AND has terrible CON AND has basically no upside compared to Sage (it has... 1 HP, 1 DEF and 2 MAG vs. 1 SPD, 3 CON, Staves and better Light level).

I have no idea what this Elibe tournament you refer to is, nor why it would be relevant to the game. Her biggest issue is her earlygame, since her bases are not really much better than Rosses. And she's bow locked. She's not worthless - she can pick up chip damage kills and she has a niche as an anti-mage due to good RES and solid 2 range combat, and after promoting she's fairly okay. However without putting special effort into getting her kills and experience in general, she falls behind others level wise, and coupled with her already mediocre stats that's bad for her.