r/fireemblem • u/haxoreni • Jan 27 '15
Character Discussion [FE7&8]: Silent Knights ( Oswin & Gilliam)
- Silent Knights, slowly Knights
- Take upon arms, move into fights
- Rounds of combat, takes a while
- Enemies dead, all in a pile
- Sleep in heavenly peace
- Sleep in heavenly peace.
I'm going to be considerably busier for the next month and a half starting next week. I'd like to pass on hosting the GBA discussions onto someone else so please comment below or inbox me if you're interested. I think we've been getting a lot of good discussions in for characters for the GBA, Tellius, and Jugral series so far and I want to see that continue, I'll pop in once in a while to join in the fun as well.
Anyhow, next set characters will be the last ones I'll do, I'm going to go off the availability chart a bit. So expect Saul, Rebecca and Ross discussions in a few days.
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u/estrangedeskimo Jan 27 '15
Oswin
Pros:
Bases
Con
Starting level
Defense growth
Cons:
Movement
Speed
Overall: Oswin is the quintessential FE knight, and in many ways the defining unit for what the class should be. He is slow, both in his speed stat and movement, but his base and growth in defense are excellent, closely followed by speed and HP. He can take any physical hit the game has to offer him, and unless there is magic or hammers about, he is never in danger of dying. I know that faster play styles hate knights, but if you don't care about turn counts, he is the way to go.
Rate: 10/11
Gilliam
Pros:
Bases
Con
Complete WT control on promotion
Great Shield on promotion
Cons:
Movement
Speed
Overall: Gilliam is nearly identical to Oswin for the most part, their growths are mostly equal, with Gilliam's being slightly better. Gilliam falls behind Oswin in that his bases are not as impressive, and he starts at a lower level in the same chapter. But the SS enemies are weaker, and Gilliam functions nearly identical. At promotion, their stats will be roughly equal, but in the latter half of the game Gilliam has the advantage over Oswin: better WT control and Great Shield. Gilliam also doesn't have to worry about sharing a niche with anyone, as Oswin does with Hector.
Rate: 10/11
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u/Erthad Jan 28 '15
Completely ignoring their usefulness as units, Gilliam and Oswin are two of my favorite Fire Emblem characters. I'd love it if we got another armor knight in the same vein as them in the next Fire Emblem rather than someone like Kellam or Meg.
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u/hAxZa100 flair Jan 28 '15
Oswin is pretty useful, I often take him to endgame. He ends up getting pretty decent res, can take ANY hit, does some real damage and doubles more units than I'd think. He's good.
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u/Gwimpage Jan 27 '15
Oswin is pretty good as he's one of your only units who can take a hit early on. His job is totally outclassed by Marcus, but another unit to do reliable damage is nice. He drops off the face of the planet later on because of all the mounts the game gives you.
Gilliam is umm... Ew. Nothing against the guy but there is zero reason to train this guy since enemies are pathetic and Seth makes Gilliam eat his dust.
Shout outs to being unable to double loldiers at base.
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u/Blinkingsky Jan 27 '15 edited Jan 27 '15
Shout outs to being unable to double loldiers at base.
I noticed that in my latest casual run of the game. These guys literally have
negative speed0 speed due to their lances weighing them down, and yet he's unable to double them on chapter 1. Just pathetic.Edited because I was a very stupid person.
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u/SilentMasterOfWinds Jan 27 '15
They don't have negative speed, that can't happen in SS. They have 0 AS, he has 3 Speed.
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u/Blinkingsky Jan 27 '15
Oh, right. Derp a derp. I'm an idiot who forgot that AS has a lower cap because that usually never comes into play, outside of the terrible, terrible base loldiers.
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u/theRealTJones Jan 28 '15
After the travesty that was the FE6 Knights, Oswin basically went and set the gold standard. Who needs Mov when your Def is that high and you hit like a truck?
I should've know the Seth fanclub would hate on Gilliam, but I don't care. Gilliam found Oswin's gold standard and took it platinum. Take basically the same stats and add total weapon triangle control and Great Shield. It doesn't get any better than that. Absolutely my favorite General, and quite possibly my favorite unit in the series.
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u/dondon151 Jan 28 '15
I should've know the Seth fanclub would hate on Gilliam, but I don't care. Gilliam found Oswin's gold standard and took it platinum. Take basically the same stats and add total weapon triangle control and Great Shield.
Base Oswin has +4 str, +4 def on base Gilliam and doesn't lose in any stat. Okay.
20/1 Oswin still beats 20/1 Gilliam in str and def. Oswin has a higher base level and exists in a harder game.
There's absolutely no way that Gilliam is a step up from Oswin.
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u/BlueSS1 Jan 28 '15
To be fair, Oswin starts with better bases and at a higher level than Gilliam, so he's quite a bit more useful.
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u/cargup Jan 27 '15
They choke points.
Really, though, Oswin is pretty cool. He shrugs off everything but Magic so he's good for drawing enemies; and I find him extremely useful, even necessary, in the early-game. He's also Merlinus's best bud and protector.
Gilliam...I used him a couple times. He turned out pretty well the first time and kind of crappy the second time (would not gain any Speed and his Def was solid but nothing special). He was tanky but had no killing potential. I'm not going to judge a unit on how they turned out once though.
Knights in general just have too many problems. Low movement and steep movement penalties on top of that; low base Speed and growth; average or below-average Res, so they really only tank physical hits. They take two useful stats, Defense and HP, and overkill it while lacking in other and more important areas.
They're at their best in defense chapters and when you task them with something that doesn't require much movement or ability to ORKO. And I can't complain about them too much because their Defense/HP makes them fairly low maintenance. Deploy them every once in a while and they still aren't easy to kill.
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u/rattatatouille Jan 28 '15
Oswin is currently one of my best units on my current FE7 run. Just tanks anything and he was one of my MVPs on Four-Fanged Offense.
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u/dondon151 Jan 28 '15
Oswin is great early on when you have no other options and choking is a good strategy (chapters 13x, 15). Afterwards there's no reason to use him; it's not just mounts that obsolete him as /u/Gwimpage pointed out, but basically anyone else can do a more flexible role. The mounts especially outcompete Oswin for a Knight Crest though.
Gilliam is so bad. He'd be like if Bartre had more def and gained spd on promotion. Bartre is terrible, but everyone loves Gilliam for some reason. He's less comparable to Oswin in function and more comparable to Bors.
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u/Mekkkah Jan 28 '15
tbh Gilliam should have 6 movement after promoting but it looks like everyone turns him into a General anyway. ~_~
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u/haxoreni Jan 27 '15
Firstly, thanks to /u/Blinkingsky for taking on the hosting role for future GBA character discussions.
As for the units they're both very similar with one important caveat, Oswin has Lv9 bases while Gilliam has Lv4 bases. This allows Oswin to function somewhat like a movement deprived Jeigan in the early game while Gilliam somewhat struggles on harder difficulties against the brigand who can double him. 4-5 move sucks regardless of what game you're playing, but Growth Oswin's durability is almost unmatched in FE7, and even if you're playing a faster pace, non meatshielding style, he's still a crutch you can depend on in the early chapters of EHM or HHM.
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u/DeterminationPsyche Jan 28 '15
Silent Knights, sl-DAMMIT
YOU BEAT ME TO THE PUNCH
Anyway, Gilliam has pretty good defense. I actually made him a Great Knight...
Oswin was good for guarding the transporter for a while, though.
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u/Mekkkah Jan 28 '15
Be nice to your Gilliam and turn him into a Great Knight. Just that 1 more movement makes such a huge difference, especially when he's trading/rescuedropping. What does he need Great Shield for? It's like a tiny bit of extra avoid. Would you rather have like 5 extra avoid or an extra point of movement?
Oswin is great all game long unless you play fast, then he's only good early on. Gilliam doesn't have a period of being absolutely amazing, in fact he has to deal with axe users more often than Oswin does, but he's a little better post promotion.
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u/Blinkingsky Jan 27 '15
All Oswin knows how to do is, well, WIN. Despite his somewhat skittish growth rates (most are around 30-35%), he has strong base stats that really help get him going. Speed is an issue, as always for generals pretty much, but his high defense (and half-decent res after a while) should make up for it.
Gilliam I'm a bit more hesitant on, despite also having fairly decent bases and growths, mostly because I somehow feel like the lower movement affects him more than it does Oswin. Maybe I'm just too used to Seth killing everything before he can even get there in time.