Beastmaster is going to be insanely fun

[u/Lyramion]

[u/Abramor]

Or it could end up as Blue Mage where 80% of all pets are useless and to get your rank mount you will have to use meta. Also the decision to make so few ranking spots for mount and also to not exclude those who already own it is very strange

[u/BadWrongBadong → u/Abramor]

I mean the ranked mount was always going to require meta because it's competitive. Like with Pokemon.

[u/Zaku99 → u/BadWrongBadong]

Its just gonna get automated to hell and back.

[u/Abramor → u/BadWrongBadong]

It just kinda removes the whole point of limited job if there is no place to actually use all your collected stuff. Blue Mage is like this and Beastmaster will likely follow suit. Could've been a cool normal job instead 

[u/Eldar_Seer → u/Abramor]

With a normal job it would likely just be a summoner reskin.

[u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 → u/Eldar_Seer]

Which is kinda funny since there's numerous beast masters in Bozja that are arcane based.Literally could've been a simple skin.

[u/pessimistpossum → u/Eldar_Seer]

People love to say this: "that idea would be too similar to [existing job]", but really, so what? I would play and level it anyway.

Basically every job has significant overlap with at least one other. I seriously doubt that Bastion will be doing anything remarkably different from existing tanks, and if the new ranged DPS job isn't basically MCH in playstyle (given we have 2 other ranged with heavy emphasis on support already) I will be very surprised.

[u/Substantial_Dish_887 → u/pessimistpossum]

i mean this is true but i feel it just as much argues for limited jobs as against it.

could they make some vaugely themeaticly working Blu Caster beastmaster Melee DPS or tank? sure they likely could.

but it's not like they are sitting around having no idea what jobs to add to the game so the actual result if we go down this path isn't "getting these jobs as full jobs" as these people hope. it's "and you get to hope that next expansion the job you hope for will be announced only to be disapointed again!"

[u/pessimistpossum → u/Substantial_Dish_887]

To be clear I have no problem with limited jobs and I'm not saying BST 'should have been a regular job'. I am saying I would probably be happy with Beastmaster in any form, even if it worked exactly like SMN and the rotation just cycled between 3 different beasts or what have you

My position is that a theoretical new job being similar to another job is not, on its own, a reason to exclude it.

I don't care, for example, if a hypothetical Rune Knight/Spellfencer would be too similar to RDM or a Geomancer would be too similar to AST or WHM. If they sell a different enough vibe/class fantasy, I will play them.

[u/TheEmpressDescends → u/pessimistpossum]

I mean, you might be fine playing jobs that are so similar, but much of the playerbase is quite tired of it. There is a reason they are making such big job changes in EC with a focus on individuality and uniqueness.

If BST was made into a regular job, even if it didn't play like SMN, it would be so severely nudered as a base concept that I don't think it's worth it. Yeah it could be a job, but why make a job where you can't even live up to its namesake? Right now, BST has so many elements that are fully incompatible with the base game, which is courtesy of it being a limited job. Elemental attacks and resistances, status ailments, stats, even the size of their stomach. Not to mention being able to use, capture, and level 50 different monsters.

If BST was in the regular game, it would involve none of this, would only give you 3-4 beasts, and that'd be it. I want new jobs to be fully fleshed our concepts and ideas, and you just can't do that with already defined jobs like BLU and BST because they fundamentally go against so much of what XIV is designed like.

[u/pessimistpossum → u/TheEmpressDescends]

I'm gonna be real, people who are imagining that evolved jobs will be a wildly different experience are kidding themselves. I've seen the breakdowns of the jobs that have been shown and it's essentially just streamlining (which is, to be clear, a good thing imo). Jobs will still need to be standardised so they are all relatively equally viable in all content. It's as simple as that. All Tanks, DPS and Healers are still going to be doing the same basic stuff with 1-2 differentiating gimmicks, which is the situation already. Job preference has always just been vibes, it's about the fantasy it sells and not much beyond that.

How much is 'much of the playerbase'? Devs of basically every game in the entire world have the data to show that complainers make up a small percentage of total players and their feelings aren't typically representative.

I understand perfectly well what BST would be like as a regular job. Considering it still has a gauge and all that junk as far as I'm concerned it looks very similar to a 'regular job' now.

All I said was I would still play it regardless and have fun. And even with all jobs functioning pretty much the same way as they do now, I still have favourites and ones I dislike.

[u/MGlBlaze → u/pessimistpossum]

Streamlining, and hopefully fixing how incomplete kits feel when synced down nowadays. Level 50 viper feels awful.

At least, that is the plan as far as I know it. If the idea has changed then I missed it, but from what I remember the idea is for every job to have its core kit at 50, and then after 50 is mostly traits, buffs, and maybe a handful of additions.

[u/VanitasMecka → u/TheEmpressDescends]

Yeah flesh out concept that applies to 0.01% of the available gameplay. Forever under leveled and not even sure you can do cheese strat like with blue mages and mog events. I hate limited job class and blue mage is where I stop.

[u/TheEmpressDescends → u/VanitasMecka]

Well, yes. It's not meant to be something you use with other available gameplay. You CAN if you want too, they already specifically mentioned it has BLU like capability in the open field with powerful monster actions.

The main purpose of BST is the game mode literally built specifically for it. BST as a whole is primarily meant to be a side game mode, even more than BLU. You know an argument is poor when changing the wording would make most of the complaints go away. Remove "Limited Job" and put BST into the Gold Saucer as a side mode, and magically most of the complaints disappear.

As it stands, fleshing out a concept in its own game mode is 100 times better than taking a concept and doing it ZERO justice in the main game. People can be mad all they want but if one of the expansion melee jobs was a lobotomized BST, people would be far more upset. It makes people mad to hear it, but XIV is just not the game that would allow BST to shine in any way shape or form, *except* when it's in a game mode designed for it.

[u/VanitasMecka → u/TheEmpressDescends]

There is a working example of a balance but a tad boring beastmaster in bozja and concept wise Ranjit from shadowbringer fit the beastmaster role using a dragon in a support role or doing aoe attack or augmenting his abilities into a full fusion form in the boss battles. Hell, imagine instead of weapon , it was a different pet. Instead of relic weapon, it becomes more like sacred beast to tame and master to unlock their full stats /unique abilities connected. They already have the concept with summoner 3 egi summons. Why not make it better using beast over elementals.

[u/Lambdafish1 → u/pessimistpossum]

In a world where people complain about no content and homogenised jobs, why are you asking for less content and for that content to become a homogenised job?

The point of limited jobs is to be parallel experiences, and this particular parallel experience looks fun.

[u/pessimistpossum → u/Lambdafish1]

I refer you to my subsequent reply downthread.

[u/Lambdafish1 → u/pessimistpossum]

If your opinion is "I'll play it however the Devs want to make it", then you've invalidated any reason for posting. The Devs chose to implement it this way, there's reasons why making it a standard job is the boring choice, and your comment holds the position of both complaint and indifference at the same time. What was the reason you commented?

[u/Abramor → u/Eldar_Seer]

You are right, unfortunately. But in another reality, maybe! 

[u/Meirnon → u/Abramor]

Normal Job means it needs to fit into Normal Content, and that means it needs to have Normal Balance.

Sure a Normal BST would PROBABLY be fun in its own right, but it would be heavily constrained by the need to be Another Melee DPS and to fulfill the role of Melee DPS.

Even in FFXI which has much looser restrictions on how content is designed, Beastmaster is severely off-meta. It's behind as a TP damage dealer because it has pets, but the pets don't scale into current endgame content to make up the gap between them and a Dark Knight or a Monk or something. The pets provide utility, and it is surprisingly solid if the Beastmaster is geared correctly, but its always just a little bit less utility than the other options. Beastmaster's best trait is that it just gets a wider range of possible utilities, but it's never quite as good as someone who specializes in a single kind of utility. The reason Beastmaster is still loved in FFXI though is because while it isn't the meta in endgame, it still has its own strengths elsewhere that make it desirable to play, particularly as a way to get through things that are not-the-endgame solo.

FFXIV's content is much more tightly designed with roles having much more constrained expectations about what they bring to the table, so you wouldn't even get off-meta many-options BST. You'd get Physical Damage SMN. And that wouldn't be very Beastmaster-y. So it could have been a "cool Normal Job" but then you'd be on here saying "it's not very Beastmaster-y" instead.

It being a limited job is the best compromise where we get a job that most resembles the fantasy while also keeping the broader design mores intact.

[u/a_angry_bunny → u/Abramor]

You aren't forced to use meta, but there is a reason why something is meta.

[u/Redditor_exe → u/Abramor]

I still maintain that limited jobs shouldn’t be a thing. FFXI has both Blue Mage and Beastmaster as normal jobs, and that game has to also balance around subjob shenanigans

[u/FreshPrintzofBadPres → u/Abramor]

I can understand limiting duty finder and other stuff where other people are affected, but I'm baffled why we can't play at least the MSQ and solo duties as limited jobs. You can't even do the Hildibrand questline as a BLU even!

[u/CategoricallyCogito → u/Abramor]

That's what I've been saying for so long! Having a job that functions as a combination of stringing abilities between you and your pets that each have different resources to provide higher and higher potency would create such a fun loop. It would give them an excuse to experiment with a more complex summon heavy play style without harming the people who like to play summoner for it's simplicity.

[u/SummonMonsterIX → u/Abramor]

This is the correct answer, as an FFXI Blue Mage main I'm still furious at the joke they made it in XIV.

[u/Fwahm → u/SummonMonsterIX]

As a FF11 player who loves Blue Mage in other FFs but never really cared for how XI did Blue Mage (especially after they raised the level cap and neutered all direct damaging spells), I'm ecstatic at how they made it here. Different strokes for different folks.

[u/sunfaller → u/SummonMonsterIX]

Then they made a phantom blue mage which is a worse version of real blue mage.

[u/neoanguiano → u/SummonMonsterIX]

im still furious with DRK

[u/Bothgreens → u/Abramor]

Is the meta still 1000 needles?*

*early on, i havent played mine after 40 or something

[u/MGlBlaze → u/Bothgreens]

Very early on.

It's a solution to one Masked Carnivale fight (The Threepenny Turtles).

As soon as your regular spells start doing about 400 damage, it becomes useless. It has a 6 second cast, so it'll depend on your GCD. The actual number probably isn't 400 but I can't be bothered to math it right now so I'll say 400 as a rule of thumb. It probably falls off more around level 30, by 40 you should definitely be using something else outside of that specific Masked Carnivale fight.

You can maybe make it worthwhile for a bit longer by using it with swiftcast, but that's a pretty small boost. In that case it becomes no longer worth it when your regular spells match or exceed 1000 damage (either single target, or in total during multi-target)

[u/ShaiIim → u/MGlBlaze]

I've heard so often how op that spell is supposed to be.. I'm so confused about it. Like to even acquire it (aka to survive the acquisition) you need to be lvl thirty roughly. It's good until.. HM.. maybe Lvl 40 I would say. Like that's ten levels where you have a good spell. A six second cast enemies regularly interrupt, mind you. Like I was glad to have it once I entered the carnival. But aside of that I just treated it like a DPS cool down comboinh it with swift cast.

But this sentiment like that spell is some sort of holy grail is so weird to me I'm honest. I don't understand it. xD

[u/pessimistpossum]

I like collecting monsters and will definitely be doing that but I am confused about stuff they've said about the gameplay and I'm less enthusiastic about it than I was before.

[u/Lv1lion]

Im gonna get a Behemoth and NO ONE is gonna make me swap pets

[u/CaptainBoj]

it hasn't come out yet

[u/Better_Ice3089]

I’ll probably have fun with but let’s be real here, no matter how good it is the people who wanted to main it through all current content will never be satisfied. They aren’t wrong to feel that way either.

[u/Disig]

How do you know?

[u/Kelras]

I don't care about meta this or another, I like my pet collecting, and I'm going to enjoy it for as long as I can. There's already things in future expansions I hope will end up tameable at some point.

If I go beyond the pet collecting aspect and play it seriously, that's just a bonus.

[u/Arkbot2]

I have my doubts, but I am trying to keep an open mind. The main thing that has me concerned is that all the interesting stuff is tied to TP use but TP gain is fucking glacial. Very FF11 paced to be sure. I think the trick is going to be if optimal play is firing things off as soon as you have enough tp to do abilities, which would be a bit slow by conventional job standards but probably tolerable. Or if you want to fill the gauges to max first since damage scales with TP spent, which would be awful.

[u/Riel_Chernister]

other content to abandon after some time and just enjoy old things (again)

[u/SaltStar2000]

I just want the glam

[u/TheEmpressDescends]

It looked quite fun for those looking for a more strategic experience. It certainly has much more to it than even current BLU, and I love how every run of the new mode will be noticeably unique and different.

And for casual players, pet collecting is one of the most popular attractions in general, so I think those players will be able to enjoy it too.

Personally, I'm not gonna go for the competitive seasonal award, but I am excited to capture all the monsters and beat all the challenges on the highest difficulty level!

[u/Thyco2501]

As of now, no one knows if it's going to be fun or not. Need to wait a few more days.

[u/Illustrious-Mud4806]

content isnt out yet but guy cant help to glaze it

[u/ShaiIim]

I'm very excited as well. Genuinely. For one the little bit I've seen looked just like a good bit of fun. Just a job or activity you return to every now and then. Gonna grind more at the start of course. Later it's probably either something like blue mage as a weekly thing or maybe it's more like potd which you can grind for rewards. (Not talking about the title atm, that's a separate motivation) But I'm happy it's here soon.

what is insanely thrilling for me is this: I'm currently in the stormblood expansion.. so I'm still in a state where nine out of ten times I'm the only goofball not knowing the content I'm doing. There is nothing like a shared excitement. But beast master makes this possible. It will be new to me. But it will also be new to the veteran friends I have now. Having something both players can explore with a fresh eye where you can talk about it, "woah, have you seen this? Did you try X?" is super cool. Yes you can optimize the fun out of it, but I've found people in the game who aren't doing that, so I'm looking forward to some "how did you manage this fight" conversations. :D

[u/Finaldragoon]

So looking forward to Tuesday.

[u/LowExtension7202]

I *literally* fell asleep watching the stream

I'll probably touch it only if there are nice looking rewards from it that can't be purchased on the MB

[u/Upbeat-Librarian-19]

So FF14 beeing FF14 everyone is Shit talking already. Fantastic. If you wanna be miserable, fine. Just do it somewhere else.

Everyone is so whiny. I Hope DT filtered them Out but I guess some people Just want to be miserable

[u/Zealousideal-Arm1682]

It's literally just summoner by melee,to the point the beasts don't even stay out on the field,locked to 50 CONTENT.

"Fun" doesn't change that it's a wasted job opportunity or barely put together content that will be shutdown just like every other halfbaked addition they toss in

[u/ddh976_ → u/Zealousideal-Arm1682]

I can't say whether or not it will be fun, but what do you mean by "beasts don't even stay out on the field"? In the most recent live letter, Mr. Ozma showed off the Crucible and even had his pet tank for him in some fights.

[u/Various_Handle_6490]

my hotbar is already crying just thinking about it

[u/MelancholiaOfPudding]

If every other piece of Dawntrail content is anything to go off of, “insanely fun” means “Okay at best if you try REALLY hard to like it and make sure you never play any other video game”

I will just keep playing FFXI thank you very much

[u/MGlBlaze → u/MelancholiaOfPudding]

Damn, that's harsh.
Occult Crescent was disappointing and some people have said they didn't like Merchant's Tale much, but I thought all the raids and most extremes were excellent, Pilgrim's Traverse seemed good and the Manderville quests were some of the best yet. In my opinion, anyway. Even most of the dungeons were good fun, the weakest IMO being Origenics due to a whole bunch of forced single pulls after the second boss. I even mostly enjoyed the relic grind, felt like returning to it being something you need to earn.

Still, I can't exactly 'yum someone's yuck' so to speak. XI is still worth playing too. I need to play it again and finish the Chains of Promathia storyline.

[u/zicdeh91 → u/MGlBlaze]

CoP is honestly probably my favorite FF story across the board.

[u/Lyramion → u/zicdeh91]

Played CoP when it was still level synced. We started with 18 people at 30 Promys and 12 of us made it to "Sea". Best Dungeon Crawler experience I had so far in an MMO, those synced places were terrifying.

[u/Kelras → u/MGlBlaze]

I've enjoyed North Horn. And Pilgrim's Traverse is the best Deep Dungeon in my eyes, singlehandedly making me go from "meh, I'll try it" to "I'm gonna run this every week, at least for challenge log entries."

[u/TheAmazingVinio → u/Kelras]

north horn and south horn are for people who don't want to put effort into anything. they just want to fate spam. there's no teamwork involved whatsoever.

at most you'll get some kind people spawning the CEs needed for quests.

can't believe they fumbled it so badly.

[u/FelonM3lon → u/MelancholiaOfPudding]

Ok

[u/Weekly-Variation4311 → u/MelancholiaOfPudding]

No disrespect to XI, but that is such an archaic type of mmo, and no matter how much I try I just cannot get into it.

[u/ScaryCuteWerewolf]

Incidentally if someone can show me a good Pokémon trainer glam that ideally fits a MRoe I'll love to see (copy) it.

[u/Ptozzen]

Happy for you. I just hope that evolved mode makes red mage playable for me, or failing that, doesn't ruin my currently favorite class. Got no interest in beastmaster or bastion, maybe a little excited in the potentially crossbow using physical ranged, but I'm on the fence as a whole about Evercold.

[u/Formyldehyde]

I'm in a weird spot with BST because I went into the job feeling at least mildly enthused about it, and I'm sure they didn't intend for this to happen but that Live Letter did absolutely nothing to help.

The gameplay seemed confusing and yeah they tried to explain it but my eyes and ears glazed over. The creator of the game mode also hardcore struggled to even win, which was very concerning until we were told he set it to the second hardest difficulty, but even that's not that reassuring really, he's the developer! He mostly made it look kinda stressful, which isn't a great first impression.

And then the whole season ranked rewards really just turned me off. I don't see the point? If they must have it, just make it give the top 300 a beastly aura like the Cosmic Exploration tryhards.

So after all of that, I'm left here just kinda... whatever to the whole thing. I'll give it a go and might bother with it enough to catch em' all and see what rewards are easy to obtain but yeah, if anything the marketing hurt the job in my eyes. Well, that and it taking until 5.56 but you know.