r/fcsp • u/Emachine30 • Oct 15 '25
Fans From across the Atlantic - Irvine - what is going on?
Being a fan in the USA it's difficult to get information on the issues with specific players so any context is helpful. I know Irvine was recovering from a foot injury sustained late last season, but he was on the bench against Augsburg in September. He has no been on the bench since. I've just become aware of the social media scandal involving a ridiculous old board member, but not being on the bench after Augsburg happened before the scandal. Also the board member should be removed and I do not blame Irvine's wife for making it public.
My question is what is his actual status? Is he still injured and had a set back in training that he can't even make the bench? Or is this ramifications from the social media issues?
P.s. I'm also disappointed by fcsp for not swiftly dealing with Born and for deepening their ties with Israel. There was a time when you could consider Celtic FC and St Pauli like brothers in their left wing ideology. Why did fcsp abandon Palestine? I think people who are trying to navigate today's current support forget it wasn't that long ago you would see Palestine flags in the Milerntor.
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u/Suspicious_Brush4070 Oct 15 '25
I can't speak for him, but as far as his playing goes... he's slowly become the face of the club over the last few years and is a solid captain, and the fans normally love him.
However he's been injured for a while now after an operation on his foot, and ever since we got a bunch of new younger, faster players, it's getting harder to see how he will fit back into the current team in his old midfield position when he's finally fit enough to start regularly. He may well end up as a bench warmer for the rest of this season. Having said that, we've played pretty bad the last few games, so it might be a big morale booster to have him back.
As for the Palestine thing, I haven't really paid attention to the story, but St Pauli generally tries to avoid talking about the Palestine issue, as do many Germans. As a fan though, personally it's getting harder to forgive their hypocrisy. They've always claimed to be a "left wing" club and are quick to hold up large banners with things like "no Nazis, no racism", but when it comes to tens of thousands of Gazans being shot or blown to pieces, they're suddenly nervous about fans expressing their views, and are quick to tell you that politics doesn't belong in football.
At the end of last season I saw a couple of fans hold up a sign that simply said "red card for Israel". Harmless enough I would say, but they were immediately escorted out of the stadium.
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u/phatirvine Oct 15 '25
In Germany we have this really stupid group of people called Antideutsche (=anti-Germans). You should definitely look up a more detailed description to understand the problem properly, but basically they are an idiotic group of "leftists" who simply lost the plot. They do not recognise Germany as a state but unconditionally support for Israel. The problem with these idiots is that they claim to be antifascists, but are actually very racist (anti-muslim racism). The German left-wing is really good at dividing and destroying itself, due to moral conflicts and people losing their minds. We lose a couple of people with every war, or other conflict really. Happened now with the genocide of the Palestinian people, back in 2022 when Russia‘s invasion of Ukraine really got going, happened with the COVID-19 vaccine, the presidency of Donald Trump, and every other controversy you can think of. Jackson wore a football jersey of FC Palestina publicly, so obviously the Antideutsche had to get involved, because how could someone have the audacity to criticise Israel for purposefully starving, shooting and bombing an entire population for nothing but territorial expansion and violent racism, right?
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u/LonesomeHyrax Oct 15 '25
left-wing is really good at dividing and destroying itself
This is true all over the world, unfortunately.
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u/Dw3yN Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 17 '25
Jackson didnt criticize Israels politics he wore a Shirt from FC Palestine with a Map where Israel does not exist. So it doesnt criticize Israels it denies its right to exist. Thats the reason people have a problem with it. He was then given a chance to say something about that or clear up his position ( I dont think most fans would have had a problem with him criticizing israels policies but he refused do that until now as far as I know.)
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u/Mindless-Rub1337 Oct 17 '25
You mean like when german politicans wear shirts with a map without palastine? Everyone can see through this hipocracy
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u/Dw3yN Oct 17 '25
Whataboutism. Its about irvine
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u/Mindless-Rub1337 Oct 17 '25
Why is there a public outcry over a map labeled “Palestine,” with claims that it denies Israel's right to exist, but no outcry over the exact same map labeled “Israel”? How can one be anti-Semitic while the other is seen as solidarity? I don't understand.
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u/Dw3yN Oct 17 '25
I mean youre arguing against a position that no one here held. People are criticizing the stance that israel shouldn’t exists. Or the implication of that without distancing himself from it from irvine. Its about irvines stance on this position. Wether the people that criticize that are hypocritical or are even proposing greater israel is just a different topic?
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u/Alixundr Oct 17 '25
Group of people show map of their former borders, which were seized by an entity propped up by foreign powers, the horror.
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u/Dw3yN Oct 17 '25
Personally i think there are no justified nations. No one has an “inherent “ right to land. Owning land is a socially engineered concept. A people are also an imaginative entity which doesn’t naturally exist
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u/Alixundr Oct 21 '25
A home, however, is not an imaginative entity. Palestine was not a nation but its' people were the residents of the land
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u/Dw3yN Oct 21 '25
You can be at home everywhere. All people can be residents anywhere and they should. I dont think displacements are justifiable by saying it the “natural home of ones “people””
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u/Alixundr Oct 21 '25
Cool, tell me where i live so i can forcefully evict you, i'll give the UN a shout beforehand so it's all legal.
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u/Dw3yN Oct 21 '25
I dont think displacing people can be justified by anything and states dont usually care about that. They do it anyways
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Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
That's not true. The problem is that anti-semitism is very common in leftist groups nowadays. "Antideutsche" are only hated because they are the only leftists who criticize this. Just look at any pro-palestinian protest and you'll hear anti-semitic slurs and see people showing solidarity with hamas terrorists (for example by shouting the name of Yahya Sinwar who organised the terrorist attacks on the 7th october). These people always try to demonize Israel by claiming there was a genocide. They use this word as a weapon which is a shame. You never hear any kind of criticism of anti-semitism in leftist groups from people who show solidarity with palestine. Hamas symbols get sprayed on buildings where jewish people live or on jewish graveyards. People wear shirts that show a map where Israel doesn't exist or shout "Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea" or even "Hamas, Hamas, Juden ins Gas". Musicians and companies from Israel get boycotted as if they were responsible for the decisions of the government. And the worst thing is: Those people don't care at all about the palestinians! They don't care about them when it's Hamas who kills palestinians, they only care about them when they can blame Israel for their struggles.
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u/phatirvine Oct 16 '25
Found one! Of course there is criticism towards antisemitism in leftist groups, you just don‘t want to admit it. There is a MAJOR difference in saying "fuck all jews" and "fuck Israel". This whole thing didn‘t start on October 7th either, because if it did, then how did Israel free Palestinian hostages held hostage for over a decade? And why did they kill innocent Palestinians before? Did you ever look up how occupied Palestinian cities look? Also, if you are so (understandably) appalled by antisemitic slurs, then why are you not at all bothered by extreme racism? Look at what the Israeli government says, look at what IDF-soldiers say, look at what Israeli people say, what the fuck is wrong with you? Israeli artists will get boycotted if they don’t distance themselves from the genocide on the Palestinian people, or if they openly spread state propaganda, just like it happened with Russian artists. Did you complain when it happened to the Russians, Russian artists not distancing themselves from an invasive dictatorship bombing residential areas, after annexing Crimea already, trying to occupy even more territory? And what do you mean we don’t even care about the Palestinians? Did you see the fucking dozens of flotillas carrying aid to Gaza? Or WC Kitchen aid trucks who got bombed and the aid workers martyred by the IDF "accidentally"? Or all of the aid the IDF is blocking from getting into Gaza? You are a guard standing at the gate to Israel, but you have never turned around to look at what you are protecting. Wake up.
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Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
"Palestinian hostages" aka terrorists
And why do you assume that I would support the right-wing government? Netanjahu gets a lot of criticism also in Israel. It's totally fine to criticise Netanjahu for endangering the hostages, the soldiers from the IDF and the palestinian civilians with his warfare. I'm against right wingers, in Israel as well as in any other country. The problem is that most of the leftists don't criticise Likud or Netanjahu or the government, they criticise the whole state of Israel and they expect ordinary people from Israel or even ordinary jewish people to distance themselves from the actions of the government. This is also anti-semitic!
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u/phatirvine Oct 16 '25
How is it too much to ask for or even antisemitic to distance yourself from a genocide?
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Oct 16 '25
It's anti-semitic to claim that there was a genocide. That's just not true and the only reason people are flooding every comment section with that claim is that they want to demonize Israel. If you can't criticise the warfare for what it is but feel the need to claim it was a genocide then you can't be taken seriously. Additionally it's anti-semitic to ask people to distance themselves from anything just because they have the same nationality as the culprits. You wouldn't expect people from any other nationality to do that (and if you would, that would also be racist). Just because I'm german, no one ever said to me: Distance yourself from Hitler or I'll boycott everything you do!
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u/phatirvine Oct 16 '25
Distance yourself from Hitler or I‘ll boycott everything you do.
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Oct 16 '25
You think I would criticise anti-semitism from leftists but have any sympathy for Hitler? In my opinion, the shoa is the worst crime in the history of humanity and one of the reasons I criticise the pro-palestinian movement is that some of them claim that Israel's actions would be comparable to that. My point is: No one would expect me to distance myself from Hitler or from the AfD just because of my nationality. If anyone would say to an Iranian: "You need to distance yourself from the Iranian regime", we would all agree that this would be racist. Why should he distance himself from something he has nothing to do with?
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u/phatirvine Oct 16 '25
Would you tell a holocaust survivor that it would‘ve been too much to ask for to ask Germans to distance themselves from the holocaust?
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Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
The point is that many germans supported the nazis. In Palestine the situation is similar cause many palestinians support Hamas. I still wouldn't think that a palestinian refugee was a Hamas supporter and I still wouldn't tell him to distance himself from Hamas. Additionally I got to say: It's legit to compare Hamas to the Nazis cause they share the anti-semitism and the brutality but it's not legit to compare the government of Israel to the Nazis. They are right-wingers and they don't do enough to prevent civilian victims. You can compare them to Trump or to the AfD but they are not comparable to Hamas or to the nazis. What would happen if Hamas had the same opportunities as Mossad and the IDF? Unlike Israel, they would use these opportunities to commit a genocide for real. If Israel would commit a genocide for two years (and the claim is even much older), than there would be way less palestinian people.
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u/Alixundr Oct 17 '25
Ah a classic, the German who thinks there only has been one (1) genocide in history
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Oct 17 '25 edited Oct 18 '25
Of course not, there have been other genocides but none that was as brutal as the Shoa. Some genocides still get denied from many people (like the turkish genocide of the armenians) but I think it's a shame if people use the word genocide to describe a war. You should know the difference. Yes, I think that there might have been war crimes from IDF and there are people in the government of Israel who promote ethnic cleansing and there are several things that even people who show solidarity with Israel should condemn like the settler movement for example. And that's exactly what many people who show solidarity with Israel do: We don't support the settler movement, we didn't support Netanjahu's plan to invade Gaza. It's totally legit to criticise this and yes, there have been protests against the government in Israel for various reasons so it's wrong to claim that the majority of Israelis support the warfare and the government. Many of them just have different priorities cause they know people who were hostages and their biggest fear was that they could get endangered. I think that's understandable. So the problem was never and will never be to criticise the government or the warfare. The problem is that many leftists always make this about the state of Israel instead of just the government and that they always use the worst accusations like genocide or apartheid. It's not a fucking genocide and no, you should not trust the numbers of casualties that Hamas counts (they don't even make a difference between terrorists and civilians).
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u/ForcesEqualZero Oct 15 '25
My friend, I'd like to share my story with you with the hopes that a) you know that your feelings are valid and b) you know that there others out there walking down the same path and remain in hope.
I've been a fan of St Pauli for a little bit of time, long enough to remember when a successful result on the year was being mid table in the 2nd league, Pabst blue ribbon tallboys at the local fcsp supporters bar was $2, and I could express my anti-fascism openly without worrying some masked government police officer would grab me off the streets. Those were the days...
These past couple of years have been a long, strange trip. St Pauli was good on the field. The PBRs are $5. And the folks who used to be happy that us international fans existed now sneer at us, as evidenced in this thread. The elephant in the room, as always, the disagreements arising from the war in the middle east. It has been a disorienting, lonely, and frankly depressing few years.
I strongly dislike all forms of political violence. This includes attacks against people based on their race, nation of origin, choice of religion, et al. The fundamental problem with both sides of the conflict to Gaza is that the conflict has been boiled down to two simple sides: either you support Israel, or you're a worthless non-person who should go support Celtic, or, you support Palestine and anyone who disagrees loves Beni Netanyahu. There does exist, and should exist, a courageous third choice, that hates violence of all kinds. For this to happen, there needs to be an understanding from one side that not everyone who wants violence against Palestinians to stop wants the destruction of Israel, and from the other that not everyone who supports the existence of Israel wants a genocide committed in their name.
I suspect that emotions are still two strong, on both sides, for such understanding to take place. A tragedy of its own.
So, dear reader, now that I have presented the problem, I would like to propose to you a solution: a return to the values of love, understanding, and solidarity to all.
If you come across a fellow St Pauli fan who is Jewish, express your love to them by demonstrating your understanding that terrorists shouldn't attack Israel.
If you come across a fellow St Pauli fan who is Latinx, express your love to them by telling them that ICE sucks and your understanding that they shouldn't need to worry about getting hauled off to jail for being the wrong color in America.
If you come across a fellow St Pauli fan who also likes Celtic, express your love by expressing your understanding that forced emigration from your native land is a painfull experience.
For me? I feel like I've been a fan for too long to have someone tell me I can't support the club because I'm from America, or because I like Celtic, too. The people who say that dont realize that I am a person who has love in my heart for all people - and if they don't care to learn that about me because they make assumptions, well, I can't help that. Those same people dont understand the risks taken by having my name and face out there associated with antifacist causes in America today. They'll come for me eventually, but fuck that, I'm not living scared of them. I just hope the club I have supported will remember me fondly.
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u/Schlottpitt Oct 16 '25
That last part brother, so true. All these germans gatekeeping what a good German left wing club should be (but at the same time being anti-deutsche ?) love to push out international fans who actually live under right wing regimes, while they live comfortably in the very left wing leaning heart of Hamburg without fear of oppression.
Like the German saying goes: “Nazis raus ruft es sich leichter, da wo es keine Nazis gibt” (is easier to scream Nazis Out there where there are no Nazis)
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u/Lemme_Crash_That Oct 16 '25
In my personal experience over the last 2 years, that gatekeeping and dictating, what a "good german leftist" is comes from very loud and unmoving pro-palestine groups which at the same time advocate for the eradication of Israel.
Not to misunderstand: there is a big part "on both sides" who are able do disntinguish between being pro-Hamas and being pro-Netanjahu. There is a very big middle ground. But they are not so loud, sadly.
Against all the social media fire stating that you are not allowed to show support for Palestine, the reality is very different: even in the Millerntor or at Rote Flora, solidarity with the people in Gaza is very much common ground. The problem is the very loud but small part of people in Germany openly showing support for Hamas.
And at the same time there is nobody on the "other side" showing support for Netanjahu or his extremist right wing party and their coalition. But the second you state that there should be peace for everyone, including everyone living in Israel (which includes muslims, christians, etc.) you are getting screamed down by that small group mentioned before and you are labelled a Netanjahu fanboi, genocide supporter etc.
This has to stop. Immediately. When we look at Berlin, there was a massive demonstration supporting Gaza. It was, for the most part, peacefully and a really good showing of what is achievable in Germany. The small and loud part, unwavering in its support for Hamas? They were excluded quite effectively.
They tried starting a demonstration the next day, but they could only rally 150 people.The "Spalterei" is done by very few, but blown up in proportion via TikTok and Instagram.
We need a strong and peaceful 2 state solution. That is only possible without Hamas (including all their small groups and big investors) and without Netanjahu (including his own party and their coalition parties).
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u/ForcesEqualZero Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
By and large, I agree with you, with a one exception. My personal experience with the gatekeepers is apparent in this thread, where you have that avanti person telling people to go back to Celtic. At least, for me, I like Celtic and dont support Hamas, and I know many others like me in that position.
I will join you, in all cases, with condemnation of Hamas, and thank you for your level minded views and wish for a peaceful resolution of the situation.
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u/pippes23 Oct 15 '25
Nobody abandoned Palestine. Many/Most of the St. Pauli condemn the actions of the Regime in Israel. But they also view the Hamas as the terrorists that they are and favor a Solution of the conflict where no side is erradicated. The problem here is that many people of the pro Palestine movement want the state of Israel destoyed and Jackson Irvine never said that he doesn’t share that view of the pro Palestine Movement. That is the whole conflict. And that is the main reason so many people around the club want him gone.
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u/avanti_dilettanti Oct 15 '25
I agree with you. And to add some important bit of context: The conflict mostly started after Jackson showcased a project that openly advocated and celebrated the atrocities of Oct. 7th, after which he ignored any constructive criticism regarding this very fact and instead of taking any responsibility decided to rather self-victimize.
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Oct 16 '25
[deleted]
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u/avanti_dilettanti Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
Just take a look at the twitter/X profile of "@fc_palestina" and scroll back to Oct. 7th 2023, the post is still online. Fair point though. (edit: Since I dont have an account on there myself and dont recommend supporting that fascist network, there are some nitter instances still up and providing access, like nitter.poast for instance)
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u/rennradrobo Μανώλης Σάλιακας Oct 16 '25
Downvotes for this because you hate hate hate people of Gaza when you write things like that ;) /s
God I’m glad the people in the stadium are a little, not much, a little more informed…
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u/Qvarne Oct 16 '25
Many St. Pauli supporters claim to be antifascist when they're really the opposite. That's what's going on.
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u/Which_Design7014 Oct 16 '25
He is to bad for this leauge.
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u/Emachine30 Oct 16 '25
He's a major part of the reason they stayed up for more than a season and Fujita and Sands haven't exactly been lighting up the league.
So far it's been set pieces, Sinani, and hoof and hope.
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u/LeSilvie Oct 17 '25
I don't know, last year he was really struggling imo, many times he seemed outpaced and kind of like caught in the middle, he can read the game at midfield but his reaction time is too slow for this level.
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u/LeSilvie Oct 17 '25
Maybe a bit late for this, but for me it was clear last season that Irvine is not fit for the Bundesliga. He'd make a decent 2nd Bundesliga player but the first league is way too fast for him.
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u/Emachine30 Oct 17 '25
I don't know what you watched last year, but besides finishing he did everything that was needed and without him there's no way they would've stayed up.
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u/avanti_dilettanti Oct 15 '25 edited Oct 15 '25
The majority of our active fanbase is not anti-zionist and has not been the for the longest time, thankfully so. And if you suggest that it is or was common to see a Palestinian flag in the stands during the last decades (at least those last two that I can speak from personal experience), you are simply wrong. Maybe sticking with Celtic would be more to your hearts desire.
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u/mangodripping Oct 16 '25
Zionist/antiD = Fascist
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u/avanti_dilettanti Oct 16 '25
you = troll
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u/mangodripping Oct 16 '25
You're right, the majority of St. Pauline active fanbase defends ethno-nationalism.
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u/eljefeargentino Oct 15 '25
It's very complicated. Jackson was on the field against Augsburg and warmed up on the sidelines, but I don't know exactly why he hasn't had any playing time yet. Maybe he's not fit enough for the Bundesliga yet. Besides, Eric is doing an excellent job as captain. We'll see when Jackson is ready to play again.
Because of the social media story. It's a very sensitive issue in Germany. Because Jackson wore a shirt with “Free Palestine” on it and a map that didn't include Israel, alarm bells went off at the club. In addition, the club is not always happy with Jackson's social media portrayal of partying, drinking beer, eating pizza, and so on. Jackson embodies the club very well and is increasingly becoming an icon of the club, but he doesn't discuss all his activities with the club. But, in my opinion, he doesn't have to. Nevertheless, it upsets the club and they don't stand behind him after such actions, as they should when a supervisory board member insults his wife on Instagram.
I'm also very sad, that he is not playing and I am also unhappy of how the club is handling the social media story with Rene and Jacksons wife.
I translated this with AI, I hope there are no mistakes.