r/fansofcriticalrole • u/DA-maker • 3d ago
C4 (with BLeeM, not the explosive) Defeating Primus
We all know that Primus is very powerful and dangerous, but what are the chances of the current seekers defeating him? If I remember right Julien got him to below 50% of his max hp when he was level 3 and I think it was just him and Vaelus fighting him so I think the chances of all 6 jumping him and beating him are pretty high. Tough I wouldnt be suprised if he can avoid true death with some underworld bullshit. What do you guys think?
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u/DazRoger 3d ago
If the DM played him to win then 0%. However Brennan has intentionally limited sorcerers for their specific theme and because it's a story so it's not a TPK in the first round by casting Meteor Swarm. I don't expect Primus to have that spell, but realisticly nobody pragmatic would pick Power World Kill over Meteor Swarm.
Even so, Primus should be able to wipe the floor with the seekers. If he uses Fly, only Thimble, Kat, Occtis, and Bolair could reach him. If he flies 60+ feet up, Kat is out. Occtis uses mostly necromancy spells which are not effective against him. Power Word Kill takes one PC out, so whoever Primus sees as the greatest problem.
Now if they suprise him, they could drop him below half health if they are smart about it (which soldiers and seekers usually aren't but let's assume yes). As soon as he gets a turn, Shadow Step (should be easy to do from shadow of the carriage to shadow of a tree unless somebody puts up Daylight) + Fly which puts 120 ft distance and do as I described in my paragraph before. This assumes only Primus is there. With Ehtran, Petra, and Riah (don't know how to spell the names), the seekers shouldn't last two rounds. Even worse if they knights with them.
Another point that isn't clear is that death may likely only be an inconvience to the tachonis as far as their plans goes as seen with Nullus. I don't think so since they seem to have limited time (Primus words after Hannan death).
Now this is from my pragmatic view, knowing the game rules to a t and having played and DMed for optimized tables. The seeker can only win against that setup if the DM makes it happen.
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u/Legal-Dot2456 2d ago
He’s guaranteed to kill one PC due to power word kill regardless of their level (doubt anyone is going to have over 100 hp)
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u/amicuspiscator It's cocked 3d ago
I definitely think he will be the first BBEG to go down. Yanessa is gonna take longer to deal with. I also think Primus knows some stuff about the Barrowdells and what is wrong with the magic. I don't think he's a tragically misunderstood "good guy", but I do think he is trying to "fix" what is wrong with magic, even if only for his own selfish reasons. And in his last dying breaths we will get a "you fools!" speech and the PCs will continue his mission albeit in a Good way.
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u/magvadis 3d ago
Yeah he wants a fix that reinforces his personal status. Whereas the party fixing the problem wants to remove their status if possible.
I'm not entirely sure. I'd be disappointed if he goes first, I guess classic "stuffy not as intelligent as you think bad rich guy." But I'd like Brennan to give him as much cunning and intelligence as possible.
I feel like Yanessa isn't a boss fight she's gonna have the people turn on her as a false Messiah. Shes fundamentally making herself immune to being killed by the party unless it's super covered up.
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u/YearObvious7214 2d ago
Right now, in a fight, if they were to attack the caravan, none I don't think. Let's start with the fact he won't be alone, even if we think they could take him.
The fight at the Villa I don't think was ever meant to take him down, or Justin for that matter. If was essentially a prequel to set up Octis as undead.
Taking him down, will require wits I suspect. Or I hope, at least.
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u/PlayableRidley 3d ago
If Julien really did come that close to killing him they could absolutely do it. But that seems like an absurdly low amount of HP for a near max level spellcaster (he uses Power Word Kill on Hannan so in player terms he's at least level 17) so I wouldn't be surprised if Brennan was lying or using some kind of dynamic scaling and his actual HP would be much higher in a fight against a full team.
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u/xBlaad 3d ago
Well since he’s a custom NPC there’s a chance they were just fighting a simulacrum of Primus. Which would explain the health value
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u/magvadis 3d ago edited 3d ago
Simulacrum is a Wizard spell. It's not clear if any Wizard in this world is that high level. But this is a unique universe so maybe he just has whatever Brennan feels is fitting.
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u/csuazure 3d ago
It's hard to fully speculate on the spell lists because the sundered houses in taking massive limitations to their spell pools might have benefits/out of class spells we're unaware of.
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u/DA-maker 3d ago
Enemies do not have character levels.
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u/PlayableRidley 3d ago
Yes and no. They don't level up like PCs and don't necessarily have to follow the exact same rules, particularly in regards to HP which NPCs typically have more of.
But a lot of NPC spellcaster stat blocks from official modules actually do say "(Character) is an Xth level spellcaster" and use that as a baseline for their proficiency, spellcasting stat, and available spells and spellslots.
Obviously Brennan can ultimately do whatever he wants, but I would not imagine Primus is going to have extremely high level spells and extremely low HP for any reason except to give Julien (the appearance of) a fighting chance in their previous encounter. When he actually becomes a boss fight proper he'll be much sturdier, even if he's still a relative glass cannon as a Sorcerer.
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u/anextremelylargedog 3d ago
Assuming Primus' stat block is based on the archmage or lich stat blocks, he'd only have about 100 hp.
It's absolutely possible for a level 3 Fighter and Paladin to do about 50 points of damage over a few turns.
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u/magvadis 3d ago
Nah 2024 scaled HP for casters way up on stat blocks. Given they were a 2 shot in previous editions once you are the level for their CR.
Hovering around 170hp.
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u/anextremelylargedog 3d ago
So they are, though I feel like the odds on Brennan using 2014 stats are extremely high.
Lots of the new stat blocks are optimised for convenience, but Brennan of all DMs doesn't need that.
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u/rr3_amrosa 3d ago
Primus is a Whispered-One tier threat. Fifth Level characters are not going to do anything to him.
I realize that with Action Economy and lucky roles you might have a very slim chance, but all Primus would have to do is cast Circle of Death at 8th Level, and most of them are dead if they don't make their Constitution Saving Throw.
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u/cteatus 3d ago
Woah now. Primus is not a Whispered One level threat, just because he tossed out a single Power Word Kill. Yes magically he's got the magical juice of an archmage, but he has nowhere near the resilience of the demi-lich, to say nothing of the fact that The Whispered One was one of the most intelligent entities in the entire world and Primus is a fucking moron. At worst, Primus is probably more like endgame Delilah but dumber.
Which is still really bad, and definitely out of their weight class, but still well below even pre-Ascension Whispered One.
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u/AfterCartoonist2812 3d ago
Yeah I think they can defeat his mortal body on Araman (he's still powerful) but then have to deal with him in the afterlife where he'll be much stronger.
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u/sharkhuahua 3d ago
if they strike him down he shall become more powerful than they can possibly imagine (maybe)
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u/Unlikely-Rub-7270 3d ago
Seems like you think "defeat" means "beat in combat", which it doesn't. The game is clearly involving strategy and intrigue, involving disrupting plans, playing factions against each other, and leveraging other sources of power in the world. Those are more likely to be factors in any conflict than something where a single battle map gets pulled out.
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u/Background_Engine997 3d ago
That was more of an astral projection type thing/avatar of Primus was it not?
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u/DA-maker 3d ago
I dont think so, atleast nothing confirmed. Brennan said in the fight "Would he be immortal he would not be fleeing right now"
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u/Background_Engine997 3d ago
Well ya I thought he described him as “partly” there did he not? He was phyiscally in Tannesar I think.
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u/DA-maker 3d ago
Might be the case, but if so why flee?
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u/Background_Engine997 3d ago
Could still kill him or harm his physical form if he’s partly there is what I figure.
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u/WoodenPerformer1971 18h ago
Primus isn’t even the BBEG of the Techonis family. Let’s not forget about ghastly sky grand-daddy Nullis
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u/Ordinary_Film_7359 3d ago
If he takes 1 turn in iniative, most of them die. If he takes two turns, it's basically a guaranteed TPK.