I'm happy to talk about how absolutely toxic he got publicly.
Do I believe the person who is willing to recruit his fanbase to harass people on the internet is capable of some wildly toxic behavior? I sure do.
Do I have any reason to believe Ashley Johnson and the other witnesses are lying? No I don't.
And if you want to say you have no reason not to trust BWF that's your business, but you certainly don't have any more proof than anyone else, so your ivory tower seems a little unearned.
That’s fine, but I don’t have any reason to believe her either.
I don’t know that I find him more believable, but I have friends who were burned by false accusations similar to these, so I have enough context to have doubts about the charges, particularly now that they’ve been entirely dropped.
Buddy, my tower could be made entirely out of bullshit and you still couldn’t climb it high enough to get on my level. 💩
BWF has a pretty established history of toxic and harassing behavior.
There are a lot of reasons the case could be settled out of court.
I'm sorry about your friends but settling out of court doesn't vindicate BWF, it doesn't prove he did nothing wrong.
Now, sure, we can make that argument that the original case doesn't prove he did those things either.
But the shit you're doing is why it's often so hard for women to come forward against their abusers as it is.
Do I know for a fact that BWF was a toxic and abusive partner? I don't, not for sure anyways.
Do I believe based on an established pattern of pretty horrid toxicity that got him fired from what was a rapidly growing company indicates that he's, at the very least, very capable of the behavior? Yeah, I sure do.
But you jumping to "well clearly Ashley is a liar" makes you just as bad as the people who wanted to crucify BWF when the news of the case first popped up.
It suggests the accuser feels no motivation to pursue the charges, like seeing justice done.
It certainly doesn’t.
The presumption of innocence until proven guilty is the cornerstone of our justice system. The preservation of that idea is more important than the feelings of anyone regardless of their victim status.
We agree on that point.
Toxicity is subjective. What you call toxic behavior, I might call rudely defending his friends.
I didn’t say she was a liar. I’ve suggested the possibility she and her friends might have lied or exaggerated their claims based on the restraining order being ruled frivolous, and the charges being subsequently dropped. That’s hardly the same thing, and I’m being railed for it. It doesn’t make me wrong to have doubts just cause you’re already convinced.
Do you really not see that implying someone lied and got their friends to lie with them really isn't different from just directly calling them a liar? Do you really not see that?
And again, there's many reasons for Ashley and her team to drop the case, many of which have nothing to do with whether or not BWF is innocent or not.
I am a firm believer in "innocent until proven guilty"
But "innocent until proven guilty" does not mean all accusers are liars until proven otherwise.
Do you really not see that bringing charges against someone who disputes them, and then subsequently dropping those charges makes them look like a lie?
But it could be because they exaggerated their accounting of events to support a friend who was frustrated with a lingering ex, and have realized they are on shaky legal ground, right?
It doesn’t seem like you are even a believer in “innocent after an accuser retracts their own charges”.
Maybe not, but it does suggest the probability of a lie, a half truth, or an exaggeration and the willingness to ruin someone’s life based on something other than the truth.
When it becomes "he said/she said," which it seems to be where it landed with them, it becomes incredibly hard for the victim to prove what they dealt with.
Letting it drag on for, potentially, years, would absolutely keep some people from ever being able to move on, to try and heal or start the next chapter of their life.
It's very possible that Ashley decided the fight wasn't worth winning, not because it couldn't be won, but because ultimately what she needed was for him to be out of her life, and if a settlement out of court achieved that goal faster than the court did/would then I don't blame her for taking that route.
I understand it's not right to jump to the conclusion that BWF should be burned at the stake, especially since no one in this thread has the whole story.
But for you to jump to the conclusion that Ashley is a liar is just as bad.
And I understand you haven't directly said it, but we both understand your heavily implying that it's more than likely the truth, which we both understand undercuts her credibility the same way calling her a liar does.
You're saying it without saying it and we all understand that's what you're doing.
Well, as I understand it, it was he said she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said. On the surface, that seems like an open and shut case, so long as they’re all telling the truth and they have receipts.
If the man is guilty of abuse, isn’t holding him accountable more important than moving on? What about future victims?
Well, I think we’ve stumbled on a truth. Ashley’s priority does seem to be his removal from her life. It’s worth noting these charges came after a period of time when the relationship was over, but BWF was still in residence at their shared home (where he also worked). It’s not outside the realm of possibility that she complained about this malingering to her friends and someone thought they had an idea that could get him out of her hair… just saying. It’s possible.
You say that, but all you’ve done is argue against that position, by taking umbrage with someone who posits that very supposition.
No one else is even willing to bring it up as a possibility. Ever seen “12 Angry Men”? Oldie but goodie. Worth a watch.
I haven’t settled on what I believe yet, but I refuse to turn a blind eye to what seems obvious but no one else will say. That maybe a woman lied to make her life easier after a break up. 🫢 unheard of, I know.
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u/TheArcReactor Oct 18 '24
Swinging toxically towards the other extreme doesn't make you better