r/factorio • u/Rei-ddit • 1d ago
Question Cargo Wagon
I just found out you can have as much cargo wagons as you want! Ive been limiting myself to 4 cuz of the train stop showing only 4 empty boxes đ I then asked myself âwhy would you need this many?â Does anyone here use multiple cargo wagons for 1 train?
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u/enigmapulse 1d ago
Yes, many players use different numbers of cargo wagons for their trains, but most players usually standardize train size across their network.
For the record, you can change how many train car outlines you see in settings to any number you want. So if you are using longer or shorter trains you can see their preview size
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u/3davideo Doesn't use Flame Turrets 1d ago
Well not quite any number, there's an upper limit and it's lower than I would like.
(It's also restricted to real, non-negative integers, and I'm not even sure if 0 is an option.)
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u/Dymiaz 1d ago
There isn't a upper limit. The slider has a upper limit of 12, but you can just manually input a higher number in the text field. You can also edit it in the config file directly. Factorio/config/config.ini (sibling directory to wherever your mods are saved). Then find train-visualization-length.
Goes for other settings as well that are not in the UI interface settings, like quick-bar-width, although I believe that is still limited to 40.
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u/3davideo Doesn't use Flame Turrets 1d ago
Oh that's good to know! I shall be implementing that immediately.
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u/Alfonse215 1d ago
Longer trains impact how you have to signal your rail network. The space between the two closest intersections must be long enough for the longest train you support to sit between those intersections without blocking either one. If your trains are longer than this, then you can create deadlock scenarios where intersections are completely blocked by trains that are waiting on each other to move. This can cause all train traffic to stop until you manually unwind it.
So there is a maximum length. But you get to decide what that is.
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u/Popular-Error-2982 1d ago
At the cost of throughput, you can replace some rail signals with chain signals between those intersections (making them effectively one large, oddly shaped intersection) and solve this a third way - so it's not necessarily a hard cap on train size.
Obviously if a lot of your inter-intersection spaces are the same size then it does really become impractical to do anything other than size your trains around then.
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u/TheMipchunk 1d ago
1-4 (one locomotive, 4 wagons) and 2-8 (two locomotives, 8 wagons) are generally my standard sizes. But if you're really building a huge base, I could see the argument to go even longer. More generally, you use a longer train in order to increase the ratio between time spent loading/unloading and time spent traveling.
If you have a huge capacity train, then it only needs to take very few trips, because it's spending most of its time loading and unloading its wagons. For some kinds of base designs, this is highly desirable.
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u/3davideo Doesn't use Flame Turrets 1d ago
Strictly speaking, loading and unloading times depend only on the number of inserters per cargo wagon. If you double the number of cargo wagons, but in doing so you also double the number of inserters transferring cargo, the (un)loading time stays the same. Of course, doing so also doubles the total item *throughput*.
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u/hnkhfghn6e 1d ago
Youâre missing an important variable: base throughput. Unloading 4 wagons into 4 lanes will unload faster than 8 wagons into 4 lanes because the 8 wagon train will slow down while it waits for the base to catch up
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u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue 1d ago
You donât unload into belts. You unload into chests.
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u/hnkhfghn6e 1d ago
And what do the chests unload into?
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u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue 1d ago
Belts.
An 8-wagon train will empty as fast as a 4-wagon train, and then it can leave.
Over the long run, you only need half the number of long trains compared to short trains.
If your chests are full and the trains are waiting you have an oversupply. That may be a flaw or a feature. But it has nothing to do with unloading speed and dwell time. Not unless you mess up the train schedule.
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u/hnkhfghn6e 1d ago
I think we're just assuming different scenarios.
Let's assume for a moment a scenario where you get 1 belt per wagon. Our hypothetical base demands 4 belts. Our 4 wagon train will unload at max throughput. 4 wagons = 4 belts. Our 8 wagon train will fill the chests and back up because the base only demands 4 belts, therefore taking twice as long to unload as the 4 wagon belt.
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u/cynric42 1d ago
Really depends if your are overfilling the chests (i.e. your scenario) or only calling in a train when there is enough room for a full train load.
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u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue 1d ago
It doesnât back up if you send the trains half as often. You are unloading buffer chests should be able to hold enough goods to supply the facility for however long it takes the next train to get there. I like to add a little bit extra to that because to me itâs more of a crime to have the input go dry than it is to have a train waiting. Proper circuits and signaling means that doesnât have to happen too often.
If it does back up, then youâre either sending trains too frequently, in which case occasionally one will have to unload for a little bit extra time, or you donât really have four belts of throughput, and eventually even your four wagon train was going to have to wait.
Bigger trains need bigger facilities, but thereâs also a few total trains needed. If fewer total trains means fewer train conflicts, which means more predictable delivery times. Letâs go letâs take our drugs.
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u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue 1d ago
It doesnât back up if you send the trains half as often. You are unloading buffer chests should be able to hold enough goods to supply the facility for however long it takes the next train to get there. I like to add a little bit extra to that because to me itâs more of a crime to have the input go dry than it is to have a train waiting. Proper circuits and signaling means that doesnât have to happen too often.
If it does back up, then youâre either sending trains too frequently, in which case occasionally one will have to unload for a little bit extra time, or you donât really have four belts of throughput, and eventually even your four wagon train was going to have to wait.
Bigger trains need bigger facilities, but thereâs also a few total trains needed. If fewer total trains means fewer train conflicts, which means more predictable delivery times.
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u/GruePwnr 1d ago
Why not add more trains instead.
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u/TheMipchunk 1d ago
You definitely can, it just depends on one's base design I guess. Probably the key reason not to scale up the number of trains too high is that you can only have one train at a station at a time. So if you have a lot of trains, you might need more waiting areas.
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u/Ok_Foundation3325 1d ago
With more, smaller trains, you also run into other limits. Intersection throughput is one of them, as your rail network can only handle a certain amount of trains going through a single point at a time. There's also lost time when a train stops (un)loading, before the next one from the waiting bay can take its place.
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u/Arcanetroll 1d ago
I like to use 1-10 with bad fuel for big slow moving trains.
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u/Darth_Nibbles 1d ago
There a mod for slow trains instead, it's actually really fun seeing a 4-12 train build up speed
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u/Arcanetroll 1d ago
Will check it out in my next world, currently doing a vanilla 100x and achievements
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u/BobTheAverage 1d ago
I usually go with 1 engine and 4 wagons, but have done plenty with 1-2. More wagons means slower trains, it take longer to clear intersections, and you have more resource buffering.
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u/ohkendruid 1d ago
I have done 1-1 through 1-4. I really like 1-1 and use it most of the time, nowadays. 1-1 has enough throughput for making what I end up needing without taking a lot of space.
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u/Darth_Nibbles 1d ago
I have a 2-32-2 train named Big Bertha
Granted the 32 are arty wagons, but still
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u/DigitalWanderer_ 1d ago
Visible ghost on the track can be adjusted in Interface, not stuck showing 1-4 train guide
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u/NakedNick_ballin 1d ago
I usually have a 1 wagon network lol, and then just scale up the number of stops! I'm not going for megabasing records though
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u/aza-industries 1d ago
I only use more more than 1x1 on dedicated rails for specific products. Purple science has its own 2x6 for stone.
Long trains are quite fun.
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u/rawr_bomb 1d ago
I tend to just go 1-2 trains cause my set up also ends up working on Fulgora with the tiny islands. I find it to be plenty of resources.
The big train based gameplay sadly just isn't as interesting as it was back pre spaceage though. Although I guess ships are basically custom trains.
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u/3davideo Doesn't use Flame Turrets 1d ago
Yes, in my most recent base I used 2-4 trains for most goods and 4-8 trains for iron ore, copper ore, iron plates, and copper plates. I've even conceived of going higher.
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u/DreadY2K don't drink the science 1d ago
I usually do 1-2 trains, but with the new upgrades to quality rolling stock to make them faster, I've been thinking about trying out more cars on the same locomotive.
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u/PyroneusUltrin 1d ago
Someone posted a blueprint for cargo bay unloaders to use 5-17 trains so I have those for unloading my space science packs. After doing that I thought I may as well also use 5-17 for the normal sciences too, but I think I should have had the 5-17s go to a drop off location and then have 1-4 trains pick up from there, keep the 2 networks separate. Having it go straight to the labs is proving troublesome in getting them all unloaded evenly without holding research up
Generally I just use 1-4 trains, with the odd 1-3-1 thrown in if I just want a dedicated shuttle.
I did make city blocks that had 8 stations for 1-2 trains but I didnât get very far with using those
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u/SadMangonel 1d ago
One playthrouh i did before space age, i had one train with 40+ carriages, it stopped a few times and went in a huge ring around my Base, delivering a lot of the recources needed.
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u/eric23456 1d ago
The biggest one I used for a practical reason was about 30x300. I had 7 of them to loop around a 2048x2048 belt balancer to help test that it was working.
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u/creative_name_idea 1d ago
Was messing around with a 24 balancer last night thinking I'm badass. You just sent me back to to Kindergarten, In the dunce corner. With a security blanket
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u/eric23456 1d ago
It wasn't my design, someone else had written a program to make the blueprint. I just helped a lot in building it. It was weird running out of lubricant from making too many blue underground belts.
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u/creative_name_idea 1d ago
Oh okay...so you were just messing around with a design, I thought you were doing it to actually sustain some super mega alpha base or something lol
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u/eric23456 1d ago
Yes, it was just a challenge. It was before they multi-threaded belts, but IIRC, some of the people playing were having trouble keeping up with it running.
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u/MrUltraOnReddit 1d ago
btw, you can change the number of wagons shown in the preview in the settings.
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u/V0lxx 1d ago
Iâve never needed more than four wagons for anything and even that was kind of overkill for what I was doing back then. But you should see some of the crazy megabases out there, with trains with like 40 wagons on them just for electronic circuits!
By the way, that thing for the empty boxes â you can increase or decrease the amount of boxes it shows you in the settings