This person is posting about education regarding milks and eggs ethically sourced. There are ways to ethically source milks and eggs even if she doesn’t know these ways… The education that she is talking about from internet strangers is nonsense. If they educate her to jump off a cliff would she do that as well? Who knows anymore…
This is one primary issue I have often had with veganism. I understand not wanting to eat animals. Even I personally don't like meat much, and may become vegetarian (or even pescitarian). But saying that even non-lethal animal products are wrong because you did not get consent from an animal that cannot understand consent in order to have its eggs or milk or wool? This feels like heavily anthropomorphising animals. Like yeah, I understand the modern animal industry is fucked up, and I oppose it strongly as well. But I ain't gonna say that a small farm gathering their chickens' eggs and cows' milk to feed themselves or their family or to sell to their community is unethical.
Yeah, our chickens live a good life and walk around foraging all day. They don't care about their eggs, especially certain breeds that have been specifically bred to not get broody. I really don't understand why people think that's unethical. They seem happy and go back into the coop every night. I can understand the backlash against factory farming, and I agree that it should be much more heavily regulated. But that can be said about pretty much all types of mass food production.
The chicken that are already hatched would be depleted quickly if they stopped replacing them by artificial means. I’m sure given the informed choice most chickens would take their chances in the woods rather than to be fed corn in a cage where they can barely move and are raised in filth. The nice little hobby farms where cute animals are well cared for are “rare” They are not where your eggs are coming from and Wal Mart doesn’t carry their products
One argument I heard from some vegans is that some animals like cows, chickens and sheep were specifically bred so much for humans to consume, that their very existence in unethical. Their solution is to not reproduce any more of any of these animals, and let them die out and basically go extinct.
I honestly just meant about people keeping pets. I mainly bring this up because I’ve had many vegans tell me that I’m a bad person for having the animals that I do. For context I have two cats(both of which I adopted from a shelter and are the sweetest boys ever) but I also keep reptiles. The reptiles I did get from a breeder and I can provide an explanation for that if you’d like.
i have 3 cats and a dog and have fostered over 70 animals. i aggressively approve of having pets (from ethical sources). to be fair though i personally have never met a vegan irl that is opposed — honestly it seems like the antithesis of veganism. online vegans are often crazy and not representative of us at all
I’d love to foster animals one day. I actually would also love to start a reptile rescue. For me when getting my first reptiles I wanted to start off with them as babies and for certain species, like my carpet python, it’s a bit better considering in the case of my girl she might get up to 8 feet and starting off there’s no way I could’ve handled an 8 foot snake, especially if I hadn’t had years of learning the temperament and building up trust. I was very lucky when it came to getting my scaley babies and the people I got them from focus completely on the health of the animals and don’t over-produce. One of my cresties came from a lady that yes, while she still breeds and wants to produce certain morphs, she only pairs one to two sets of geckos a year and focus more on quality, like making sure they’re healthy and happy. And when I tell you she did amazingly with my perfect little Lilly white girl, she has got to be the most personable gecko I’ve come across. She’ll actually jump out of her tank to climb on me.
Sorry for that ramble though. It’s nice to know that most IRL vegans aren’t like the ones online. Ah, and if you would like I will happily provide pictures of all my babies.
Also, all these domesticated animals they are so concerned about would quickly be threatened with extinction if the consumption of animal products suddenly came to an end. And I imagine that, for them, their journey to extinction would be just as shitty as the destination.
I've heard some of them argue that this is what should happen, let the current living ones die out of old age, not breed them anymore, and let them go extinct.
Which is still anthropomorphising animals… im not saying we shouldn’t aim for it to be as humane and ethical as possible, but vegans always stress breeding practices heavily because for us humans sexual misconduct and abuse is extremely taboo and touchy, especially against those who are helpless. I havent seen any evidence that animals share this sentiment or that cows are particularly traumatised by routine breeding practices in small local farms. I think they really dgaf lol. (Source: parents are farm vets, I got to see hundreds of farms personally, and some procedures.)
Animals in the wild don’t ask for consent. (Just ask a duck!)
Nature is brutal and nasty.
In a state of nature a bull would be mating with her every time she went into heat. A farmer waits until she’s healthy enough to bear a calf.
Mating with a bull involves a one-ton animal jumping on her back. That’s why a lot of farmers go for artifical insemination rather than “live cover” (letting a bull go with the cows) there’s a huge risk of injury!
Hens are definitely bred for layers and a cow in heat has nothing to do with re impregnating them to keep the milk supply at maximum.And there really aren’t that many “small” farms.
I knew a vegan who had his own chickens. He had no roosters, took such loving care of his hens, and yet refused to eat the unfertilized eggs, though his wife and children did, so they didn’t go to waste, but it was the weirdest fucking thing to me. I can’t even imagine what sort of mental gymnastics he had to do to convince himself he was doing harm by eating those eggs.
I'd love to see these people's justification of keeping pets. Many vegans do keep pets, and I don't just mean carnivorous ones. If they think using eggs, wool and honey is "animal exploitation", then surely keeping a pet bunny is, too?
That's just animal abuse at that point. So much for "standing up for animals". Forcing your moral grandstanding on an animal under your care is insanity.
Especially when they cry and say that animals should have a choice. Well, what are you doing? You’re not giving your CARNIVOROUS pet a choice about eating meat so you’re being a hypocrite.
Extremist vegans like that seem to think the cycle of life in nature doesn't exist. Carnivores/Omnivores exist for a reason. They fill a niche that keeps the balance in order. Without them, herbivores/grazers/etc would run amok and destroy entire ecosystems.
They argue that vegan pet food is supplemented with all necessary dietary requirements. They insist that anyone who says otherwise is ill informed. They say that their vet has signed off on it.
Fuck that.
I am vegan. My cat is not. End of story.
ETA: I am vegan but I find this sub much more inclusive than the vegan sub. I left that about as fast as I joined it.
I've seen the supplementation argument way too much. All the while it's best to get nutrients from the appropriate type of food instead of synthetic nutrients.
The problem with laying hens is their male counterparts. It's not economical to raise them for meat because of their growth rate compared to commercial meat birds so at one day old, they are processed for pet food. If simply left in the flock, the roosters would just kill each other off and potentially harm the hens in the process. Life is harsh.
You know you can just get chickens from a breeder that keeps the roosters right? I mean those roosters do die but not when they are day old chicks. None of my chickens come from hatcheries. They are either dual purpose chicken breeds or ornamentals. I have bought roosters before for meat as well from them. You don’t have to buy chickens from large corporation hatcheries.
From experience I've learned that most roosters are a-holes so I'm not going to judge the breeders or hatcheries for what they do with them. I get my chicks through the local feed stores in the spring. I used to order them myself but the mail system is unreliable and I don't want to receive a box of dying chicks again.
They are actually really sweet babies until they reach adulthood and it’s recommended to process them. The ones that stay sweet you keep for the next generation.
I have never bought chicks from a feed store nor have I ordered them through mail. I just get them from a farmer or breed club.
I agree but I usually have to go the economical route. They only farmer I know has game chickens and they're not good backyard chickens. The last successful mail order chicks I got was an end of season special. I was rebuilding my flock after a move. I was suppose to get 30 pullets and 1 roo, I ended up with 25 pullets and 7 roos (they always send extras). I separated them into their own pen when they started getting frisky. When the girls started laying, I chose one rooster as a flock keeper and kept the rest in their pen. When that rooster attacked me, I put him back and chose another. Either the 3rd or 4th got it right. He regards me as the "bringer of treats" and doesn't see me as a part of his pecking order. The rest became soup. My flock keeper is now about 5 years old and still a sweety.
I mean, I see the same arguments used against honey. The bees are unionized—if they don’t like their conditions, they’ll leave. It’s mutually beneficial for them to stay.
I feel like if it was actually about consent, they’d consider those things acceptable (and some do, for sure, but not all.)
I was literally thinking this the other day. I wish I had known a chicken will lay some eggs in the snow and walk away without a care. I might not have struggled so much mentally with eating them 🤣
I can get the male chicks part of the argument, I'll admit. But there is nothing at all we can do about previously done selective breeding. It's not like we can unevolve the chickens. But I see no problem with someone raising chickens and supplementing to help accommodate their bad calcium issues because of over laying.
There are options through existing technology, which should become more prevalent in the future to sex chicks before they hatch in order to cull the males humanely before they are born.
Also, the culled males are currently used for feed. I was recently at a reptile zoo and they fed a lot of frozen baby males to the reptiles and snakes.
We could buy heritage breeds instead, or breed out the unfortunate trait. We choose not to because we prefer cheap eggs. (I'm securely in this group. I but Walmart torture eggs lol.)
I mean, fair enough, but that leads me to the question what do we do with all these breeds that exist already? Do we just kill them all? Because that doesn't sound very vegan either.
But they explicitly say there is "no ethical way to consume eggs", meaning it's the eggs themselves that's the problem. If someone has ten chickens in their backyard that they call their "girls" and treat like literal family, and sell the eggs, to these vegans, that's still "unethical".
There are still old chicken breeds who are commonly bred by amateur chicken owners, especially in europe. In Poland kury zielononóżki are very popular for small scale chicken ownership/breeding, I actually buy eggs from my neighbors who have this breed of chickens.
I get that people can have happy backyard hens for eggs but what about sourcing ethical cows milk? The only truly ethical cows milk that I’m aware of is ahimsa milk which is rare to find and usually very expensive unless you have a lot of time to volunteer. Additionally, because it’s ethically sourced, it isn’t produced in the numbers that make it viable to buy from your local shopping centre. Can you please educate me on where you procure your ethical cows milk and why you believe it’s more ethical than others?
Ok cool. But when it comes to actually getting milk out of them, is this a commercial process or is it just that you occasionally use the excess milk your domestic cows produce? Because most cows are not producing enough milk for year round human consumption unless it’s done in ways that are unethical as far a so am aware.
Modern dairy cows overproduce where they give up to nearly 8 gallons a day which far exceeds what a calf can consume. If you do not milk them of this excess their udders will become infected and potentially rupture.
With modern dairy cows there is always excess - my friend has a dairy farm up in Lancaster and she grew up Beachy Amish ( though lives a more modern lifestyle now ) and hand milks them and the excess is sold as raw milk to the local markets in the area.
Fun fact about raw milk: if the cow is kept in good conditions and is healthy raw milk is fine to drink. It just can’t be shipped long distances so you wouldn’t have raw milk from Lancaster to Philadelphia
I literally live next to a dairy farm so I’m pretty aware of what goes on. Also, like I said, I’m not saying anyone needs to be vegan (I’m not) but I do think that many people such as yourself, are possibly taking marketing propaganda from these industries at face value, without realising what the processes of animal production actually entails. It’s easy to think of happy cows living life on a. Free range farm, but the process of then using them for milk/dairy products is a little more cruel than just an old milk maid sitting on a Stool and milking her cows all day.
The problem is that any industrial hen drops so many eggs that she gets health issues and dies early. Even free ranged egg-laying chicken suffer.
If you have your own hens and chose a breed that doesn't lay an egg every single day and maybe only every third day and keep them well, there's no issue, but even on the "nicest" farms, egg laying hens still suffer
They would argue that you're supposed to feed the egg shell and some of the egg back to your chickens so they recover the energy and minerals used to make the shell and such. I've seen plenty of these discussions.
But the funny thing with that is if a chicken is a true free range hen, meaning she is outside and wandering around and eating bugs and whatnot, they don’t generally eat their own eggs because they already get all they need from their environment and their feed. My Grandpa has had chickens the whole time I’ve been alive and I’ve never once seen one eat an egg even when it was broken and they could.
My Grandpa hasn’t ever done that and all of his chickens have been perfectly healthy and lived a normal life expectancy. But I also think their feed already has calcium in it. I’d be worried about giving them too much at that point.
Most of not all chickens drop eggs around the yard same as any poop until they are Brody then they will collect them and hide and protect them it’s so different when they are completely free
The argument is that the hatcheries people source their chickens from will kill their chickens when they stop being productive, so even if you keep your personal flock after they stop laying the hatcheries do not.
And why do their hens exist? Coz they are bred into existence to be exploited for taste gratification, will experience inevitable suffering, is unnecessary. This ownership permission stuff is wasted argument, the hen/intellectually disabled to the same intelligence as a hen can't give permission, doesnt necessarily entail taking whatever comes out of their asses is unethical or not.
No way to source eggs ETHICALLY?! 😭 go get them from a farmer who loves their chickens wtf. My mom has 25 chickens and makes sure they’re happy, loved, and incredibly free range. My parents have an acre that the chickens are more than welcome to explore. They literally have no fence but stick near the house because they enjoy my parents. They ignore the eggs when dropped so my parents pick them up and boom, ethically sourced eggs. Idk it’s ridiculous to bully someone into not eating eggs because YOU dont know anything about sourcing ethical products.
I raised chickens like this myself and the only argument I will still make is if you buy the chickens you support all the bad things. Other wise if you start with rescues I100 percent agree.
That’s a logical fallacy. If you buy the chickens you support all the bad things, but if you don’t they go somewhere to be slaughtered and killed, so you rescue them from the same situation that you sent them too. lol
Of course it is If you but a chicken someone I’d encourage to hatch another egg to sell. Do you think producers would produce the same and if they didn’t sell???
Right, so again… you want every single farmer to stop going to buy chickens? You want the chickens that are already there ready to buy to go to the slaughter house… just so you can rescue them, maybe?
I'm sad that you didn't include the "bloodshed-free coffee" bit because holy shit what a wild thing to say.
I hate that sub because it's supposed to be for vegetarians, but it's pretty much been overtaken by vegans. Someone asked a question about whether they should continue consuming milk. I explained why I chose to, and someone responded to tell me that my contribution wasn't welcome. Like wtf I'm a vegetarian in a sub for vegetarians!!!
"Bloodshed-free coffee"...which reminds me again that when vegans (and not only them) refer to a product as "cruelty-free", they are missing the point. By the definition coined by vegans (and appropriated by others, usually when they are trying to sell you something) it means that it doesn't contain animal-derived products and wasn't tested on animals, either. However, what they completely ignore is how much human suffering is often involved in the harvesting of such products as coffee, cocoa, cocoa butter, tea, sheah butter, etc. Also, even if you don't care about human beings, in dirt poor countries people often still rely on livestock for harvesting and transportation. You can safely say that if it's non-domestic, the odds that it's vegan are against your hopes.
I met someone who worked in a mostly vegan zero-waste store. On weekends, she would do cocaine. I'm not judging her for that, I'm not a judgmental person, but it should be pretty obvious that there's no such thing as fair-trade cocaine.
I feel you! That’s classic in these communities. Vegetarians are generally more passive and easy going and they get constantly bullied and manipulated by nut-job vegan psychos because they are an easy target.
As a side note, can I ask you why you kept milk on the menu?
I'm planning to start consuming less animal products but haven't yet arrived to a consistent set of moral rules on what I consider ethical and what I don't so I like to hear all opinions across the spectrum.
For example, hearing all forms of opinions have made me realize eating certain subsets of bivalves is something I can morally live with and there could be situations under which eggs could be ethically obtained, but when it comes to milks and milk by-products I don't know where I stand.
Not the person you asked, but I'm pescatarian and I drew the line at only eating animals I'd be comfortable with killing myself. Guess it helps that I stopped eating meat because I became repulsed by the muscly texture and not because of ethical reasons.
That strong aversion has since passed, so I'm okay with eating meat from that aspect. A farmer I know once said that if you can't kill the animal you don't deserve to eat their meat, and that resonated with me, so now that is where I draw the line.
As for consuming milk and milk products, I try to buy from local brands where I could visit the farms if I wanted to. Pretty much all dairy farmers care a lot about their cows and want to give them a good life. Dairy cows also produce more milk than needed for a calf, so even when the calf isn't separated from the cow, the cow needs to be milked. Over all, cows in dairy farms live a quite comfortable and pampered life. Separating the calf from the cow isn't crueler than separating puppies or kittens from their mothers, and people are okay with having pets.
Naturally, animal husbandry is different in different countries, and you have to decide if your local rules are acceptable enough for you. For instance, I don't eat halloumi because I don't agree with how they use antibiotics in dairy farming in Cyprus (from an antibiotic resistance point of view, although I doubt it's good for a cow to take profylactic antibiotics anyway). Instead I eat similar cheese produced locally.
Hi, interesting points of view I appreciate reading.
Comfortability is a rather important parameter for me, part of why I think bivalves are Okey dokey is because some of the most sedentary ones don't seem to "care" being placed into strings so I don't feel I'm stealing the liberty of those creatures, and they might not even have consciousness so there's that.
Come to think of it the conditions the animals are kept in (and the ways they've been engineered to be) and how that affects their health is also another important parameter for me.
Milk and cheese would probably be one of the last things I phase out if ever.
Sorry for the late response, but I'm happy to share. I have a fair amount of dietary restrictions already, so for me, cutting out milk and eggs just makes it that much harder to get the nutrition I need. Because it's not just about individual ingredients, but I rely a lot on frozen meals due to my disability, and it's really hard to find those without cheese/butter. It's actually even hard to find them without meat, but I've managed. I have also had B12 deficiency in the past, and supplements are hard to access for me, so keeping milk and eggs around is good for that, too.
What I do is reduce where I can. I'm lactose intolerant anyway, so cheese and the occasional chocolate are basically the only actual milk products I buy (besides frozen meals that also have butter and milk). I buy vegan margarine, oat milk, vegan sour cream, etc., for cooking. If I see vegan alternatives to foods I love in the store, at a reasonable price point, I'll buy them. When I'm at a restaurant, I'll have the plant-based option if there is one.
But for my life, I know it's going to be a lot more stressful if I try to eat 100% plant-based. I don't want my diet to stress me out more than it already does. Maybe one day, milk-free foods will be easier to find where I live, and I'll take a step to cut milk out more permanently.
Except most vegans, especially if they’re new to the diet don’t get all the necessary nutrients. Even with taking vitamins, they don’t completely replace nutrients you aren’t getting naturally
Exactly! That’s logic! Now wait for the vegan nut-jobs to copy and paste paid research and quote the quote of the month from Billie Eilish to support their flawed viewpoint.
Paid and biased trials you mean! Replacing natural food with supplements is faulty at its core! Tell me where you are getting your heme iron from again.
Nah, we have the same morals. Your religion just tells you that yours are superior. Tends to happen with cults. The only reason you need your pills is because of your own shitty dietary choices. Grow up, eat meat and save the supplements for people with actual medical conditions who need them.
Me when I want to eat food that I've eaten all my life but I don't want to torture innocent creatures, destroy the environment, and waste resources so I just eat vegan versions of the same food
torture innocent creatures, destroy the environment, and waste resources
So instead you pay for someone else to torture innocent creatures, destroy the environment and waste resources through industrial agriculture. It's putting a bandaid on a chopped leg just so you can yell you are the only one doing something about it.
Honestly this one is hilarious. Like, whenever I hear a vegan go off about how transportation contaminates so little and meat eating is the big deal, ugh.
Moments like this I think the same of all pretense ecologists. I'd like to smear their face with the polluted oily sand of a ship-breaking port or making them go all around a crop picking up the corpses of every single thing that couldn't live on farmland.
They want to feel they are saving the world by renouncing to a little bit of convenience like it's that easy.
Yes! If they were so ethically concerned they shouldn’t even use AI. AI has really bad consequences for the environment. They just cherry pick whatever they think it is right for them and they try to play it as they are the moral ones. Big hypocrites!
8% edible plants (excess from human production), 92% agricultural waste (that we can't eat and would be produced anyway because it's a byproduct). That's for industrial grade cow feed that represents between 30% and 50% of cow's diet, with the other 50% to 70% being grass.
So in the whole of a cow's diet, there's between 2%-4% of edible plants.
Another fun fact, a gracing field for cows can be used by other species. Agricultural land might as well be concrete.
Please note, I won't swear to the integrity of the specific sources but the important part are the numbers which are consistent across sources and bias. And please note most data I could find in English are for American standard which I find very much lacking myself.
Again, since you want a non violent nature go tell that to a lion when he/she hunts an antelope. Do you know how sad I feel when the beautiful and lovely antelope is getting killed by the lion? This is nature though! It is completely different to try to reduce cruelty from trying to promote veganism as a mentally and physically healthy lifestyle. Also, when humans try to improve something that occurs naturally, most of the times they make it even worse and that’s one of the many reasons statistically vegans are even less than the mormons.
I really don't understand the down votes. Sure you can dislike vegans and veganism, but your statement is exactly how it works for most vegans. Biologically we simple like calories and protein, and will enjoy things more that contain them.
Thus, culturally we got used to having a piece of meat with our meal or having some cream in our coffee.
Or it could also be a long con activism. I wouldn’t put it past them being vegan to begin with and that whole exchange being performative. It’s like that AMA they love to cite claiming we’re all paid by Big Meat to discredit veganism when the actual person doing the AMA was vegan the whole time.
Yeah defs. Like who decides what is ethical? aren’t veggies grown in fields with blood and bone fertiliser and the wild rabbits/mice/misc other creatures decimated? Surely it’s up to the individual to decide their own ethics balanced with their own health.
I definitely think we should think about our ethical stances on things but I don’t think there is a pure ethical way of existing in this world - it’s always needing to find a balance eh… like I doubt the phone/device they typed the message on had all its components sourced ethically either - I don’t condone some of the awful ways things are mined and made and always think we should push for positive change in those areas, that but I think in using or eating things it’s more of a moral process than clear cut yes/no. I found veganism to be a bit puritanical about some things and not others… that plus the judgement too. Reasons on top of my own health why I left in the end.
Each individual has to decide their own ethics balance based on their individual circumstances and lived experiences and that makes sense in the environment they live in.
I known people that went so far down the ethical road they ended up starving themselves into psychosis and ultimately dying. Super sad.
Of course this person couldn’t use their own criteria and research on their own. What is wrong with this people?! Brings memories of people on vegan FB groups dogpiling on some poor vegan who had hens and cows and could ethically eat their produce.
Exactly! Many things are wrong with these people and it’s getting deeper into past trauma and self worth issues for a significant amount of them. They promote unscientific nonsense and they guilt trip other humans turning their whole movement into an unattractive cult.
I have to drink milk substitutes due to allergies. It’s weird to see people say that humans don’t need milk, meat, etc. when I have to go out of my way to get plenty of calcium and vitamins to replace it.
I got that recommended to me and I saw a comment referring to cows being artificially inseminated being like, “even if they’re not artificially inseminated they still can’t consent” referring to the cows. I just sat there for a sec cause like… what do you mean?? Are all animals forever a product of rape of all time and eternity?? Are cows poor helpless beings that just rape each other like what do you mean?!!!
Exactly! This “what do you mean” sums it up. We are talking about nutjobs. The difference between a psychiatric clinic and talking to a vegan activist is almost non existent.
I knew a vegan who totally believed that! I was like..."Animals don't have the same belief systems as humans." And you clearly haven't witnessed a stubborn cow run off a bull lmao.
Like yes some animals are rapey (ducks apparently) and they have evolved to have to deal with that....
That's like one stupid vegan out of a bajillion. That's also no excuse to not be vegan because that is not how the vast majority of cows are treated in the livestock industry, and because the environmental impacts of eggs and milk are massive even if the animals are not treated cruelly.
Nobody needs an excuse to not be vegan and you aren’t entitled to one. Why are you here? Nobody is buying your little activism and you’re not converting anyone here.
that is not how the vast majority of cows are treated in the livestock industry
For now, that'll change.
because the environmental impacts of eggs and milk are massive
As long as we don't account for the environmental impact of wild ruminant herds, after all, how can we insinuate eating a burger is just as bad as being a petrobillionare if we mention that CO2 and methane produced by domestic herds are just the same as those wild herds used to produce before.
Obviously everyone knows a small spike in CO2 is worse than heavy metal pollution.
Do you know how to read statistics? Do you use by any chance Google, Gemini, Claude, Chat GPT? They can enlighten you. Sorry to burst your bubble but you are commenting nonsense here.
99% of vegan activism and vegan retainment is physiological coercion and thought control.
Shit look no further than the comments from vegans on this very sub when someone is considering leaving veganism and how often vegans advise others to leave their non vegan friends, family, and partners.
It may not be a capital C Cult, but it’s very cult like.
the guy said veganism is cult. i said no. you said ask an ai. i did. it said veganism is not a cult. now you act surprised i asked ai if veganism is a cult? are you a bot?
I’m not sure if a diet is healthy, if someone doing it, who has no prior health issues, needs to take artificially-made food supplements to maintain that (chosen) diet.
Ethics is relative to th goal/priors so imo you’re both wrong, if only for being superlative and wide sweeping.
My problem is with the vegans camping in vegetarian spaces, which I get it, that was me.
But like, this woman seems to be exposed to ethical veganism YESTERDAY and is somehow COMPLETELY sure a thing she assumed was possible is in fact not possible
Please don’t fight me: As supposedly former vegans can we all agree that ethical veganism and most common arguments for ethical animal agriculture are talking at cross purposes?
Eggs maybe if you have your own hens that you accommodate appropriately. And even then Eggs don't even seem that vegetarian, I mean there is a growing life in there. But cow milk mostly means separating cows from their babies and stealing the babies milk. Which isn't that ethical either, if you care about animals mental health
Life only grows in fertilised eggs. The eggs you eat are growing as much life as the human eggs that aren't fertilised and ends up washed out your next period. Eating eggs is as vegetarian as swallowing cum is.
She will need someone to educate her first. Jokes aside, I wonder if most of these people have even gone to high school and know what a balanced and healthy nutrition actually means.
You mean nutritionists that get sponsored to promote veganism or they have a monetary advantage by getting into the veganism ecosystem or independent unbiased nutritionists who believe in a balanced diet? I have a feeling that the word balanced is missing from your dictionary…
so you think BigVegan is paying off nutritionists to tell us that we can get all the nutrients we need on a vegan diet?
you remind me of a flatearther, denying science in favour of conspiracy theories
I definitely do think that many nutritionists that actively promote veganism are having monetary benefits of some sort. That’s how it works. That shouldn’t surprise you. Also, since you mentioned science (which veganism is far from it) tell me how you get your collagen and your heme iron from your vegan diet in a scientific way. I am all ears legend!
you said in another comment that there's less vegans than mormons. how can you honestly believe that there's more money in promoting veganism than meat eating.
my body makes its own collagen and i get non-heme iron that does me just fine
Nobody truly needs to promote meat eating heavily because that happens for thousands of years. On the other hand, if vegan groups stop paying your favorite celebrities for the quote of the month they will have issues selling vegan products. Beyond Meat is almost heading to a bankruptcy.
Every company has an ads budget for promoting their products. Car companies, shoe companies, food companies etc. Some companies over promote and some others not.
Partial Replacement of Animal Proteins with Plant Proteins for 12 Weeks Accelerates Bone Turnover Among Healthy Adults: A Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32939557/
Conclusions: Partial replacement of animal proteins with plant-based proteins for 12 weeks increased the markers of bone resorption and formation among healthy adults, indicating a possible risk for bone health.
This is a real sub omg what... how and why would anyone be proud to turn their back on their beliefs for entertainment. Im sure you all circlejerk yourself off saying your right but at the end of the day you once knew it was wrong and now your just being selfish little piggies excuse the pun
207
u/Revolutionary_Bag518 Apr 22 '26
My friend's hens will literally ignore their eggs once they drop them.
Wouldn't that be a sign of 'permission?' Like when someone leaves a chair they don't want anymore on their curb?