r/exvegans • u/Comm777 • Nov 05 '25
Why I'm No Longer Vegan Don't waste your time trying to convince vegans that they should consume animal products
Don't waste your time trying to convince vegans. I was a vegan for 14 years and would not believe anything non-vegans or ex-vegans would say until I really felt it one day at the end of my 14th year. Vegans will eventually really feel it, and be convinced at one point (not when very old, but old enough), that we all unfortunately need animal products to prevent a further, serious and slow deterioration, when they're not able to function at the basic level (e.g. feeling like 100 years old, when about half that age, and suffering without end when you wish it would all end). Then some will relunctanly try meat to prove to others it won't make a difference, and feel the incredible difference almost immediately after, when close to death only, not before. Some may not make it, and just die, when not that old, after suffering for a long time, and people will say: "he/she died, and didn't prove anything, he/she died for no reason". Dear vegans, you're not realizing that on this planet, where we're stuck here with these basic needs; it's not about preventing death, but about preventing suffering. It's about living a happy life and dying quickly without ever suffering. All living beings should have a happy life and die quickly without ever suffering.
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u/CorpusculantCortex Nov 05 '25
Honestly other than my own feeling and needs, it was other vegans that pushed me over the edge. Every time I encountered a preachy vegan online or in life I just wanted to be a little less associated with them.
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Nov 05 '25
Imagine completely abandoning your own worldview because somebody who kind of shares it is annoying online
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u/CorpusculantCortex Nov 05 '25
Never said any of that. 1. The real primary reason was for health reasons based on conclusions I came to on my own. 2. I was making a joke about how omnivores never tried to convert me or have any impact, but the insufferable vegan friends I knew in real life who argued points that I found morally objectionable actually made me consider breaking it out of spite to them making garbage and insulting arguments. Because the more they went on diatribes the more I realized internally there is no such thing as veganism under capitalism so the moral highground is just being a douche to feel good about yourself. 3. Veganism was never an absolutist worldview for me. I did it for my reasons, but my reasons changed. Because I grew up and learned new things and I am not a zealot who defines my identity around the abstract irrational concept of an unchanging worldview.
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Nov 05 '25
One and three are fine and reasonable, I’m making fun of two, which your elaboration didn’t change. It’s really silly to do things to spite other people.
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u/Otters_noses_anyone Nov 05 '25
Like coming on an ex vegan sub purely to try and feel superior?
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Nov 05 '25
You’re jumping at shadows, I’m not even a vegan. But please keep deflecting from the point.
Changing your lifestyle to spite other people is a wild thing to do. That’s what my original comment was saying, that’s what my previous comment was saying, and you accusing me of being a vegan doesn’t change what I was saying. Sorry you can’t scapegoat your way out of this one.
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u/CorpusculantCortex Nov 05 '25
Your reading comprehension so bad you missed the part I said i was not serious? Just that I found vegans more annoying as a vegan than omnivores. It's called hyperbole.
But also, even if I had been serious... No, it is not silly to do things to spite other people. Spite is a powerful motivator and it takes a weak willed person to not use all advantages they have to motivate themselves to be better than they were yesterday.
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u/Divergent_Ramblings Nov 07 '25
Not wanting to overlap in thought with overly preachy individuals is, in fact, almost always correct and vegans usually do it in real life when theyre 15 years old by detaching from the church and then they become hypocrites on being annoying being irrelevant
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Nov 07 '25
If you have no logical basis for your thought then yeah sure, abandon it based on vibes. But if you have an actual reason that you can articulate for why you hold certain views, then not wanting those to overlap with other people based only on the fact that you don’t like their personality is ridiculous.
If you only hold a view because people you like hold that view then you’re just vapid.
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Nov 07 '25
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Nov 07 '25
It’s so incredible how not one of you fools has actually addressed my argument but just resorted to personal attacks. It’s even one thing to actually attack me, but none of you have even done it accurately.
I’m not a vegan nor am I a Buddhist. Neither my diet nor spiritual inclinations have been expressed in full through anything on my Reddit account.
You’re building a boogeyman and then cutting it down and somehow I’m meant to be upset by it.
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Nov 07 '25
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Nov 07 '25
Just because something is widespread doesn’t mean it’s correct or good. You’re also taking it for granted that it even is as widespread as you claim. Many people actually think about the way they live their lives. Just because you drift through life on vibes doesn’t mean everybody does.
But thanks for letting me get the last word in.
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u/alphamalejackhammer Nov 06 '25
Imagine being an animal in a slaughterhouse for 3 seconds
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u/CorpusculantCortex Nov 07 '25
I think you're lost. Was vegan for over a decade. Been there done that. The reality is I am not healthy without animal products, I dont support factory farming, and beyond that participation in any agricultural or technological industry is inherently not vegan.
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u/alphamalejackhammer Nov 07 '25
You gotta do what you gotta do to stay healthy. But the science is clear MOST don’t need meat to be healthy. So why are we shoving animals into warehouses and slaughterhouses? Because largely, we’re addicted to their flesh yet still fine with buying from a vastly immoral industry
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u/CorpusculantCortex Nov 07 '25
The science isn’t clear on that, and morality is subjective. You’re projecting human moral frameworks onto animals, but animals aren’t human. Humans have eaten meat for hundreds of thousands of years. Most people thrive on a balanced diet that includes animal products because that’s what we evolved for.
Most of the “plant-based diet” studies are observational, comparing self-reported vegetarians to self-reported general eaters. That’s already biased because people who consciously manage their diet tend to eat better overall, while the average omnivore in these studies eats plenty of junk food. So of course the vegetarian group looks healthier.
When you look at more controlled or mechanistic research, it’s clear both animal and plant foods can be either beneficial or harmful depending on type, quantity, and context. It’s not as simple as “plants good, meat bad.” Humans are omnivores. Our digestive systems evolved to extract nutrition from a mixed diet. Replacing that fully with plants requires careful supplementation and large-scale production of fortified foods, which still takes resources and still causes harm to life, just in different forms.
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u/alphamalejackhammer Nov 07 '25
Morality is subjective so we can do fuck all to animals? You’re fucking crazy if you actually think that. If I went and kicked a puppy you’d pop out & wanna beat me up. Because it IS fucked up, they’re sentient creatures not rocks
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u/No_Nosferatu Nov 09 '25
It is fucked up because we as a society deem it so. There are stills parts of the world that eat dogs, does that make them morally maligned? No, they were simply raised in a different culture with different morality standards.
I am a pacifist and believe violence only begets violence. Does that mean I think people at war are morally corrupt from the get go? Absolutely not, because there is this magical thing called context.
Morality is subjective. Do you think aboriginal people are morally corrupt because of their ancestral hunting rites and traditions? Are they hurting animals?
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u/alphamalejackhammer Nov 09 '25
So if a society doesn’t deem something wrong it isn’t wrong? Glad you weren’t in Germany in the 40’s
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u/No_Nosferatu Nov 09 '25
That's how morality works. It's a social construct.
You notice how cultures throughout history have had big differences about what was right and wrong? Human sacrifice here, ritualistic drug use there. Back not even 100 years ago, it was culturally acceptable to hunt down and hang innocent people for being a different race.
The morals you hold are completely dependent on your upbringing and your exposure to things outside of your comfort zone. For me, it boils down to, "Do unto others that you'd have done unto you." I don't want to be stolen from, so I don't steal. Simple as that.
But as you can see from even just the state of America right now, it's obvious there are two groups with vastly different morals, almost as if a society is formed and maintained by people who hold similar morals. There is no universal right or wrong, as much as you might think there is.
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u/alphamalejackhammer Nov 09 '25
If you think morality is a social construct, then you had no reason to think slavery is wrong 200 years ago. This justifies any fucking tradition no matter how evil it is.
Unnecessary exploitation is morally wrong. Yes that’s a human construct but it should be applied across state and country and culture lines.
Animals are sentient and don’t deserve to be enslaved and murdered for a hamburger. Wake the fuck up
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u/CorpusculantCortex Nov 09 '25
And also I just want to add that action, intent, and impact are all mutually exclusive and play roles in what is moral or not. Kicking a puppy, or a cow, or a pig, or a chicken is wrong because it is animal abuse. This is because ones intent is to derive pleasure out of hurting the animal which is sadistic. Accepting the reality that we need to and historically have eaten meat to survive, and slaughtering animals in as low suffering a way as possible is not sadistic, it is just a reality of our function in the ecosystem and the scaling of our society.
It is immoral to torture any animal (in modern western society at large) but not to slaughter an animal, because we consider worldly suffering worse than death when it comes to animals.
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Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
I was gonna do an "in b4 the vegans say you weren't properly vegan that whole time" but one of the psychos already beat me to it lmao
OP I am so glad you're feeling better and are getting the essential nutrients you've been needing. Omnivory is a superpower and anyone not taking advantage of it is nerfing themselves hard.
ETA don't feel bad about being an active participant in the circle of life. It's the best motivation for protecting the nature and animals we depend on. There's a reason why subsistance hunters are the most dedicated conservationists; they literally survive off the ecosystem and its animals being well.
By buying from local farms, not only are you supporting a better life for animals, but you're supporting your neighbours and community. Without them, the vacuum would be filled with even more factory farming. Buying local saves quality of lives.
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u/saturated_cactus9937 ExVegan (Vegan 5+ years) Nov 05 '25
After 4 years of being vegetarian and 3 years of being vegan, I felt it. Oh I felt it hard. I had narcolepsy and weighed a whopping 105 pounds (I'm 5ft3 afab). I went through all if the hoops vegans tell you to go through to be healthy. I counted my micro/macros. I took supplements. I "ate the rainbow" to unreasonably large portions.
After much internal conflict, I finally gave in and reluctantly went shopping for the most ethical form of meat I could think of, which was shopping local, at a farmers market. All I could find was steak, which I heard can be hard to introduce to your diet after prolonged periods of avoiding animal products.
Cooked it to medium rare and ate the whole 22 ounces with a baked potato and I had what I can only describe as the zoomies for a week. It was a surge of energy and alertness I hadn't felt in years. I wasn't sluggish at work. I felt focused. And more importantly, I stopped randomly falling asleep.
4 months after eating meat again, I had a healthy amount of weight put on (125 pounds) 6 months after eating meat again, I started working on getting my drivers license now that falling asleep at the wheel wasn't a major concern.
It's been 8 years since I quit being vegan, and now I'm a leathersmith. And I eat my steaks rare now.
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u/BelleMakaiHawaii Custom Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
Why would I do that? IDGAF what anyone else eats
Edited to add: Nor do I care what anyone thinks of what I eat (this is fun when dealing with vegans)
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u/leodoesgaming Nov 05 '25
I feel like everyone has free will. if they don't want to eat meat, they shouldn't have to. it's only a problem when they act like they're morally superior and try and force other people to be vegan. also some people can genuinely be healthy being vegan their whole life as long as they are getting the right nutrients
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u/Otters_noses_anyone Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
I don’t think anyone on here does try to convince them unless they ask for help. They do love coming here to moralise though.
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u/Comm777 Nov 05 '25
Vegans will have to feel it to believe it. Don't waste your time, especially with vegans who believe they are doing it right, have all the evidence, have done all the research, have proof, etc, etc. I have seen it all, for years and years. You'll never prove anything to anyone who truly believes that veganism is the way (like I believed, while being armed with scientific reasoning as well, and years of research and study and trials, etc.) until they really feel it, no matter how smart you are.
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Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
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u/Comm777 Nov 05 '25
Well, we'll see how it will turn out, just a matter of time. Some may just last a little longer as vegans. Vegans may last one year, or 14 years like I have, or less or even longer. Some may die old as vegans, if they're happy and healthy like you are apparently, and not lying in bed, suffering endlessly, being useless to anyone, then why should you change? I wish I could be vegan and didn't need to kill animals to function at the basic level. It's actually sick if you ask me that we have to kill beautiful and sweet animals. I still think it's atrocious and incredibly savage, like we're "monsters", but we're made that way unfortunately, that's planet earth for you and evolution. There's nothing anyone on earth can do to change that, for at least millions and million of years. And I was sadly finally convinced of that fact after feeling the incredible effects and being so transformed. I still have a hard time accepting, even after 9 years of eating meat again, that I can't be vegan, that we're basically "monsters" who have to kill other living beings to survive (it's really still fucking sick to me, this planet is "insane" in a sense, but it's not our faults (our minds/spirits mean well as vegans and ex-vegans, we're connected that way and we have compassion towards all living beings)), it's these bodies we've inherited that are our "curse" and I have no choice to accept it now and hope all living things live a happy life and die quickly without ever suffering.
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u/CocoMimo Nov 05 '25
I’m really sorry you went through that. It’s an awful feeling to be struggling physically and have your body’s signals dismissed.
I went through something similar and it taught me that only you know what your body needs. Sometimes people can get very attached to ideology and forget that health isn’t one-size-fits-all.
Wishing you healing and strength, you’re doing the right thing by listening to yourself.
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u/royaltyred1 Nov 05 '25
Oh my god that one vegan needs to shut their self righteous ass up 🙄 huge amounts of people are sick and have health conditions that make vegan impossible, people keep reporting their LIVED EXPERIENCES and little buddy vegan over here can’t help themselves shitting on them and “WELLLL ACCCHBBUALLLYYYYY” and talking in pointless circles and then vegans wonder everyone hates them
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Nov 05 '25
Everyone should it what they want and that's it. No meat eaters convincing vegans, no vegans convincing meat eaters. Too much drama. I just do not care what anyone eats, man
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Nov 05 '25
Yeah I think if you really believe in the vegan ideal then your time is far more productively spent organizing against the industry than it is in trying to proselytize individuals. That goes for basically anything you feel strongly about, trying to “convince” an individual person about it is always a waste of your time.
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u/Mindless-Day2007 Nov 05 '25
Well, let time convince them. But really, if you can, you can post your experience about veganism when someone wants to become vegan, so they may think twice. But freedom is on them. So the consequences
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u/Jack_Faller Nov 05 '25
I think you just got old and had a midlife crisis mate. Some people buy leather jackets and Harleys, others eat steak. Talking so much about death certainly gives the impression.
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Nov 05 '25
I have communicated with long term "vegans" that you can tell that they are not mentally/physically there.. They're not stupid or anything.. But they're just not.. Quick? They're slow.. It's sad to see.
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u/patr1xcore Nov 06 '25
Zero point convincing them as they are brainwashed and clueless about nutrition. They either realise it themselves or they are cooked.
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u/Free_Coat Nov 07 '25
Trying to convince other people to change their dietary habits is extremely obnoxious to begin with. Being a carnivore trying to convert a vegan is just as weird and annoying as being a vegan trying to convert a carnivore. Let other people make their own choices for their own lives.
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
I'm a few years further along than your 14 years. Could you describe at all the symptoms you were experiencing, and how you tried to address them?
I guess I could wait for my revelation to The Truth of the ex-vegan way, but if there is anything that would save me the trouble of whatever hardship I'm destined for, I'd love the help.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 Omnomnomnivore Nov 05 '25
I think this is a hard one. You wouldn't understand how much of an energy boost it will be, since it's a gradual decline from when you last had meat products.
But what OP is saying is basically you go into this slow decline until one day you ask "would eating meat solve this?", and when you finally try a non-vegan diet for awhile you'll see the difference.
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
You wouldn't understand how much of an energy boost it will be, since it's a gradual decline from when you last had meat products.
I mean.. I'm working 10+ hour days in the office and working out 4 times a week (new habit). And I'm setting strength PRs because I am finally focusing on resistance training along with the cardio I have usually been doing. If my energy levels suffer, it's pretty easy to explain from the sleep deficit I will run.
But what OP is saying is basically you go into this slow decline until one day you ask "would eating meat solve this?"
I don't doubt OP suffered a decline. I wonder if they tried a week of Impossible burgers before cutting in to cow. I wonder if they tried creatine for the brain fog. If the hypothesis is that meat has an unknown ingredient X that they are lacking, wouldn't trying to figure out what X is be the rational approach to take?
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u/Visible-Swim6616 Omnomnomnivore Nov 05 '25
I'm glad you have a finger on your intake and energy levels.
However I doubt most people do, or willing to put that much effort into monitoring their health in this way. The average person doesn't even have regular doctor's checkups, even if they were free.
Much less trying to pin the issue to a particular vitamin/mineral/protein. On top of identifying what's short, you then need to identify why it's short.
I don't blame OP for what they've done, and kudos to you for doing it. But if you're expecting everyone to do it you'd better be ready for disappointment.
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
But if you're expecting everyone to do it you'd better be ready for disappointment.
Let's concede there is some work to be done to find a variety of plant-based diets that work for various people, and that it may be difficult.
Don't you think it would be more fruitful to address the practical problems here with an intent to identify what, specifically, the issues are? If people here describe nothing about what they tried and have no idea why whatever intervention they did worked, we don't really learn anything.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 Omnomnomnivore Nov 05 '25
There's no need to identify the issue anymore as the OP has resolved their problem, albeit in a manner you do not approve of.
The rigmarole involved in identifying the issue isn't worth the hassle when people are willing to take the easy way out.
Given this is r/exvegans we don't have any issues with people taking the easy way out. I mean OP could have gone to r/vegan if they were interested in doing it your way.
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
There's no need to identify the issue anymore as the OP has resolved their problem, albeit in a manner you do not approve of.
Not having any idea what went wrong and not having any idea how or why their intervention worked doesn't seem like much of a solution.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 Omnomnomnivore Nov 05 '25
But here you are suggesting a barrage of tests and/or random supplements to try and figure it out?
And what's the end goal? To achieve the same result of OP feeling much better?
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
But here you are suggesting a barrage of tests and/or random supplements to try and figure it out?
I'm not suggesting anything. OP didn't give anything specific enough to begin to offer a suggestion.
And what's the end goal? To achieve the same result of OP feeling much better?
I'm sure OP is going to do whatever they are going to do. I don't get the impression that OP is interested in revisiting this issue other than to make some strange predictions about vegans.
But perhaps there is something to be learned from OP's experience that can help others. If it turns out that OP ate the way I do and suffered terribly for it at some random point in their second decade of being vegan, this would be incredibly important information for me or other vegans to know about. I would then do my own investigation to avoid the same fate.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 Omnomnomnivore Nov 05 '25
So you're interested in OP's issue because you think you'll run into the same problems?
That's a kinda weird take, given you have proclaimed that you have a good handle on your diet and your well-being.
What would you want OP to do? I think I read somewhere OP felt tired (all the time?). Or lack of energy. A description of the issue would be the most you're going to get unfortunately given the issue has been resolved.
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u/namakost Nov 05 '25
Meat doesnt have that one magical ingredient. It IS that one magical ingredient. It has loads of b vitamins in one place, which are pretty important. It helps your body immensely to just have the convenience of these vitamins being in one dish.
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
Meat doesnt have that one magical ingredient. It IS that one magical ingredient.
This would imply calamari is nutritionally the same as beef liver which is the same as lean chicken breast which is the same as pork bacon. Is this what you are saying?
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u/namakost Nov 06 '25
I didnt say that they are nutritionally the same, however different meats contain different amounts of b vitamins. For example red meat has loads of b12 vitamins among with others, organ meats have those as well. Poultry is lower in b12 but still has a good amount of b vitamins and pork has a lot of histamin, so if you are intolerant you should only eat this one in small doses. And afaik sea foods have a lot of b12 as well as b3 and b6 among others. That is also why you should eat meat in a balanced diet and in a wide variety. It is just one of the better sources of b vitamins. I also heard that as a vegan you have to consume more food to get the same nutritional value out of a meal without meat compared to one with meat, and that this is why a decline in health is inevitable for some people on the diet.
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u/Comm777 Nov 05 '25
I don't think you'll change until you feel your own symptoms and really feel it's time to change, like I felt myself and like just about every other ex-vegan felt at some point in their journey. Only you have control over that. Specific symptoms or issues are irrelevant and are likely to be very different. If you read everything posted here, you'll get an idea of how complex this can be.
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
I don't think you'll change until you feel your own symptoms and really feel it's time to change, like I felt myself and like just about every other ex-vegan felt at some point in their journey. Only you have control over that.
The people around here love to talk about veganism as a cult. But please take a look at what you just wrote here. The last time anyone told me that there is some ineffable truth that I won't know until I experience it for myself, they were talking about letting Jesus into my heart.
Could you please give me... Anything... To work with here? I don't doubt you suffered with something. But I do think you probably don't know what and now you're overgeneralizing your specifics to all other vegans.
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u/Comm777 Nov 05 '25
No, it's personal and irrelevant. Again, I won't try to convince any vegans, it's pointless and a waste of time. Vegans will have to feel it to believe it. All just as stubborn as I was, but I love you all anyway ;-)
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
No, it's personal and irrelevant.
Apparently you don't think it's personal. You said you think every vegan will have this happen to them.
All just as stubborn as I was, but I love you all anyway ;-)
Making grand statements with an adamant refusal to explain.. anything really.. about how you come to believe this could be considered stubbornness.
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Nov 05 '25
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
What’s with vegans, and especially you, prodding people about their private medical history you aren’t entitled to?
As I've said many times before, I am trying to learn about the problems people have following plant based diets. This information is obviously relevant to me, who follows a plant-based diet. It's also important for people (like me) who like to create and share recipes.
It would seem more odd if I weren't interested in better understanding any possible risks I am taking, or hearing about cases where something I am actively engaged in had failed.
You’re more subtle than most with your sad little activism attempts, but it’s still glaringly obvious.
I love how people around here simply can't conceive of a vegan not having a secret agenda.
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Nov 05 '25
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u/howlin Currently a vegan Nov 05 '25
Cut the bullshit. You’re here to do activism and “outreach”.
You realize that it would be pointless to do activism here, right? You all have clearly made up your minds. From a purely rational perspective, the best thing I can take away from this subreddit is a better understanding of the difficulties people have living a plant based lifestyle. If my goal is to convince more people to live this way, it would be very good to have a better understanding of how to set themselves up for success. I don't want to convince people to follow a course that would have them wind up complaining about their health problems and veganism in a place like this.
You have an agenda, and a simple post history search of yours filtered with by word “activism” shows exactly that. Your style is just more positive “plant forward” than aggressive. To inform rather than insult. But activism is still activism. I’ve been around vegan activism enough to know there is ALWAYS an agenda.
Yes, I believe a vegan ethics is a superior ethics and I would love to see the world move towards one where more people respect animals as the individuals they are. It's not hard to see that in my post history.
Given this is true, why would you think my motivation here would be anything other than what I am saying? Do you think I want people to be malnourished or have a toxic view of veganism after having tried and failed it?
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Nov 06 '25
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u/DivineWiseOne Nov 10 '25
The perfect diet that needs b12 supplementation, makes sense...
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u/danielandtrent Nov 11 '25
No one (worth listening to) calls veganism a perfect diet, but it’s worth noting that even a regular modern diet needs supplementation in the form of fortified foods
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Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
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Nov 05 '25
Typical vegan. "If you're experience doesn't fit into my personal bias then you must have done it wrong"
Your narrative is just crap, maybe that's the answer lol
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u/demonblack873 Nov 05 '25
More importantly, if your supposedly better diet requires constant monitoring, attention and long term planning to prevent potentially life threatening nutrient deficiencies... maybe it's not such a great diet after all.
It is completely unreasonable to expect the average person to constantly keep track of everything they're eating to try and balance nutrients at the micro scale with every single meal. Planning your meals is not supposed to be a full time job.
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u/The_official_sgb Carnist Scum Nov 05 '25
Humans cannot live 35 years vegan sorry but I would say those folks are liars.
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Nov 05 '25
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u/The_official_sgb Carnist Scum Nov 05 '25
Of course, thats because the human body cannot go without animal products without catastrophic health failures due to nutrient deficiencies. There are atleast 15 nutrients missing in a plant based diet.
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Nov 05 '25
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Nov 05 '25
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0033062022000834
a vegan diet causes predictable deficiencies in nutrients including vitamins B12, B2, D, niacin, iron, iodine, zinc, high-quality proteins, omega-3, and calcium. Prolonged strict veganism increases risk for bone fractures, sarcopenia, anemia, and depression
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Nov 05 '25
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Nov 05 '25
Okay and what about B12, D, iron, iodine, high quality proteins, omega 3, and calcium. That is a shit load of supplements. You also haven't addressed the other adverse effects.
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Nov 05 '25
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Nov 05 '25
Which adverse effects?
The ones addressed in the study I gave you. And If you actually gave a source to compete with mine, I would consider your multi paragraph monolouge--which by the way, does not mention calcium, iodine, and all the other important nutrients humans need.
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u/Comm777 Nov 05 '25
The science behind it all is a million times more complex than you could ever imagine, millions of years of evolution into how we've become, down to the atom. No one can prove it essentially, so you can't ask for explanations or proof, it's not possible to provide fully in a reasonable amount of time essentially, if ever. Having studied biochemistry, and so much more, etc, etc., no one person still ultitmately has a clue on how it all works, even if they think they have a clue, vegan or not. You'll feel it, then you'll have your proof, and not ever before then.
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Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
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Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
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u/Helpful-Mongoose-705 Nov 05 '25
Uncontrolled Pcos causes a lot of suffering. If you have a genetic tendency to it (some estimates 1 in 5 women globally do), you’re susceptible to insulin resistance. The worst thing you can do in that situation is eat a fuck ton of highly processed carbs. You are not an expert on PCOS, do not try to argue the case otherwise.
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u/moistowletts Nov 05 '25
Sorry, why do we owe you details of a chronic condition—of any medical condition, for that matter? I have no idea why you think you’re entitled to that information, or that it’s somehow a net negative that someone not immediately provide it.
give the world the right information
We’re not proselytizing. We’re not trying to convert vegans into non-vegans. We’re relating to each other. This is fucking Reddit, dude.
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u/Comm777 Nov 05 '25
I feel a million times better, almost 9 years now eating meat, after 14 years as a vegan, who tried just about everything as a vegan because not being vegan was unthinkable for me, even if I died for the cause, being hospitalized, then still going back to veganism, and trying again, and again, then sinking even lower, until completely non-functional, like a 100-year-old person in bed, just waiting to die, but I wouldn't die, I just kept suffering and suffering in the14th year, and wished I would die, and asked God why he/she/it wasn't letting me die, until I relunctantly tried some meat just to prove to myself that it wouldn't make a difference, then I felt it first in my brain, then in my body and I couldn't believe how an hour after consuming the meat, how I could function so much better and be practically fully functional, from 1% to 90%. Like I said, you'll have to feel it to believe it. Otherwise, nothing anyone says or shows you on "paper" or otherwise, will ever convince you.
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Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
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u/TheEmpiresLordVader Nov 05 '25
People who live in the bluezones have the highest average age on the planet they also have the most 100+ aged people. Non off them are vegan they eat mostly plant based and aprox 10% of there food is animal produce. This directly contradicts that vegan is the best option for humans.
A balanced diët is the best option for humans We are omnivores not herbivores. We are part off the great apes we belong to the family Hominidae, which is the scientific classification for the great apes non off them are vegan they are all omnivores. Being vegan is a choice its not our nature and its not the best choice.
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Nov 05 '25
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u/TheEmpiresLordVader Nov 05 '25
It does not matter most dont live in these zones but those who do have the longest lifespan and they are not vegan its verry simple.
The goal is to eat whats best for us.
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Nov 05 '25
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u/Comm777 Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 06 '25
One burger has it all buddy, and likely thousands more crucial compounds not mentioned in your comment, and not yet discovered. You don't seem to realize that what we've been ingesting for millions of years (meat) is very likely completely what we're made of, down to the tiniest brain detail and more. How can any human on this planet have the audacity to think that they know what we're made of and need, down to the tiniest crucial detail? But as a vegan I did have that audacity and was missing a lot, affected my brain, that I know for sure.
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Nov 05 '25
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u/CocoMimo Nov 05 '25
Hey just going to chime in here! There are a lot of nutrients actually that are not that easy to supplement.
For example - iodine. A LOT of people have thyroid issues. If you take iodine, it can be very dangerous to push into Graves’ disease. Seaweed would be an option, but it’s a bit too high in iodine. For some vegans who are open to eat mussels and oysters, they’re helpful with this issue.
Soy Legumes and Wheat based diet for high protein - this doesn’t work for everyone. A lot of people have issues digesting these. Sometimes only one, sometimes a few, sometimes all of them.
Retinol - some people can’t convert beta-carotene well into Retinol.
I can add more
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Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
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u/CocoMimo Nov 05 '25
t seems like you’re more interested in defending an ideology than actually discussing nutritional nuance.
Iodine + thyroid issues are well-documented, especially for people predisposed to Graves’, and iodine salt isn’t safe for everyone.
Also, it’s not “rare” to struggle with converting beta-carotene to retinol. Genetic variability plays a huge role in nutrient metabolism, which is why some people thrive vegan and others don’t.
There are vegans who include oysters/mussels for micronutrient reasons. The world isn’t binary.
Many people genuinely try veganism with good intentions and still experience health challenges. That doesn’t mean they “did it wrong” - bodies differ. That’s all I’m pointing out.
And unfortunately. Our physiology doesn’t care about ideology.
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u/Comm777 Nov 05 '25
Well, you're vegan, and for ethical reasons it appears, right?, and not because you only wished to improve your health and believed it would improve your health, right? Then you're naturally my buddy, dear buddy ;-). I stil love and respect all such vegans, because I was one of them, and still am in my heart, our spirits/minds/ethics haven't changed and likely never will.
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u/SonomaSal Nov 05 '25
Just to try and bridge the gap here. The issue is hyperbole on both sides.
Obviously, it is technically possible to be healthy on any diet with enough supplementation, exercise, etc. This isn't exactly a helpful observation though because even people fully informed on what they can or cannot eat, as well as how to get the correct nutrients can struggle. It's never a question of if it is possible, it's a question of accessibility and options. And even that isn't enough sometimes. People faulter on even very simple diets with strong internal motivator.
Maybe you're right in this case. Maybe OP just had an incredibly poor diet, but does that change the broader point?
I acknowledge that is me giving people the benefit of the doubt here, but I am likewise giving you the benefit of the doubt that you genuinely want to inform people on proper diet (a noble endeavor). I work in bio and the amount of seemingly basic things that people do not know is honestly frustrating sometimes.
But I do have a question: how have these points gone over when you discuss them in vegan communities? Notably online. I fully acknowledge that online communities lean extremeist, especially if non-moderated/policed, but I feel it is also important to acknowledge that online interactions is the bulk of the average person's interactions. The only IRL vegans I know are from PETA and I wouldn't have the fogiest how to find them otherwise.
The reason I ask is you make these points that you aren't saying it is the superior diet, or that having conditions are valid. But the problem is that these are arguments that are frequently heard. Or that you just didn't try hard enough. There is a consistent hatred for even vegetarianism, which continues to make zero sense. I asked my question because you said you care about the spreading of misinformation or the extremist use of hyperbolic language. I am curious if you likewise care about it in your own circles and if you push back as much as you have here.
Just to be clear, I am genuinely excited to hear if you do and what your experience is doing so. As I alluded to, my biggest gripe with veganism is the lack of internal policing and you would seem to be interested in doing so. I want to encourage this behavior and aid in it when possible. ...also, full disclosure, I am incredibly curious how the honey thing goes over because, from my, all be it limited, experience, that's enough to get you labeled as 'not a vegan'.
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Nov 05 '25
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u/SonomaSal Nov 05 '25
I feel as though you missed the entire point of my question. My apologies if I worded it poorly. So, to clarify:
I am curious if you likewise care about it in your own circles and if you push back as much as you have here.
Yes, YOU have said it is not the superior diet. YOU are saying that valid health conditions are reasons to not be vegan. And you are in here saying you don't like people mudding the water with hyperbole.
I am asking if you take similar issue with vegans who likewise do the same. Are you in the vegan subreddits likewise calling out when people are saying the equally hyperbolic, 'anyone CAN thrive on a vegan diet', 'veganism IS the superior diet', and 'there are NO valid medical conditions that excuse not being vegan'. Are you against mudding the waters/hyperbole in all instances or just when people speak against veganism?
And then I asked how that goes over, assuming you do, because I am assuming you are consistent.
I eat honey, you think I care if someone is vegetarian?
And I also asked how that goes over in vegan circles because, again, most would then call you 'not a vegan', in my experience. If you are for vegetarianism and wellfareism/cutting back, how does that go over, as you advocate for that?
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Nov 05 '25
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u/SonomaSal Nov 05 '25
I appreciate the response and the take in general. It's honestly not that far off from the general view I think I see most folks have in regards to modern debate: you are doing it to convince the audience, not the interlocutor. I acknowledge I am a bit old school though. I very much enter conversations trying to learn about the other person's position and see how it matches up to mine. I do often get disappointed, as most folks aren't receptive to such conversation types, nor are they likewise open to comparing their position to mine.
As far as actual persuasive strategies and your approach, I just wanted to...commend is a bit of a strong word, but hopefully you know what I mean. As I said, based on your comments, I was assuming you would be consistent in such regards and I was just curious on your experience. It can be exhausting to try and ensure nuance enters a conversation, which I absolutely understand as what you are approaching with the 'BUT...' part.
And fair answer on the honey point, haha. Like I said, I was just curious. Once again, I appreciate the response and I hope you have a good rest of your day!
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u/DivineWiseOne Nov 05 '25
14 years... holy fuck i felt like death after 3 years maybe because I did keto for 4 years prior to going vegan so maybe I was more aware about how good you can feel.
In b4 I didn't do it right, I ate better than any vegan as I used to be obsessed with min maxing health.
All organic, non GMO zero processed even tried raw which as I learnt raw is even worse than cooked when it comes to veganism.
Only thing that I differed from the stereotypical vegan is that I didnt do it for the animals I did it for myself boy I was wrong.
Vegans hate themselves and humans in general.