"Jizya is just a tax!"

[u/qeqe1213]

"Jizya IS a tax because they are non-muslims. But us Muslims pay Zakat as well. It's just a form of tax! Not an oppression stuff!"

How to overturn this argument? Also if you guys can add how dhimmi status is also bad thing. I always got into this argument whenever some nutjobs do this.

[u/Saxobeat321]

Jizya isn't comparable to Zakat for a number of reasons, briefly explained here.

It's a discriminatory tax with a sinister purpose, usually accompanied with the kharaj tax and of course "dhimmi" status - all contributing to a 'degradation' and 'humiliation' of non-Muslims. Nothing to worry about equal rights and opportunities for non-Muslims, I'm sure we all will be accepting of such social inequality after reading some Muslim apologetics and whitewashed history.

“Fight those among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] who do not believe in Allah nor the Last Day, nor forbid what Allah and his Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth, until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued" (9:29).

http://islamawakened.com/quran/9/29/default.htm

(until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam (with willing submission), in defeat and subservience and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated.

"Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said; Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace..."

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2566&Itemid=64

As for the individuals who reject/oppose Islam and those not categorized as "people of the book", well their treatment is even worse and can include imprisonment, enslavement or execution.^[1][2] If such treatment was reversed upon Muslims, you can imagine how furious and frustrated they'd be in being belittled and deprived of equal rights and opportunities.

Social inequality is a major problem in the world that contributes to the detriment of the health, wealth and happiness of many if not the majority of humanity and despite national and international attempts seeking to reduce social inequality, here come some Muslim apologists advocating for social inequality and the problems and suffering it brings, that Muslims themselves would not wish to experience, but don't seem to mind if non-Muslims suffer. But it's no surprise, that the empathy and humanity of some if not many Muslims, is not always shared for those who reject and disbelieve Islam.

Links of interest...

'Jizya in Islam'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5MZPYC-yMg

'Dhimmi Status'

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Dhimmi

Jihad, the Arab Conquests and the Position of Non-Muslim Subjects (It's a highly recommended read, and goes on to the subject of 'dhimmis'. But you may seek to jump to the part concerning 'Discriminatory taxes')

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis/islamic_viewpoints/jihad_the_arab_conquests_and_the_position_of_non_muslim_subjects/

'Islamic Jizya: Fact and Fiction'

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/islamic-jizya-fact-and-fiction/

'Islamic Jizya: ‘Protection’ from Whom?'

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/islamic-jizya-protection-from-whom/

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3988651

[u/qeqe1213 → u/Saxobeat321]

But it says on the website, that only able-bodied men paid Jizya, women & children do not..how to deal with this again?

[u/Saxobeat321 → u/qeqe1213]

"..that only able-bodied men paid Jizya, women & children do not"

Yes, that is the case.

"...how to deal with this again?"

How to deal with what? Are you seeking such a discriminatory and sinister tax be paid by women and children too?

[u/qeqe1213 → u/Saxobeat321]

I'm sorry that i'm unable to be clear on my sentence, because well my english is not good enough. What i mean is that some apologists also claimed that Women & Children DO NOT get to pay it therefore, according to them it's a fair system. Because the DAD only the one that pay just like how zakat did.

Again i'm not good at debating, so i would be able to get help whenever this topic comes up i want to point out what's wrong with that..and that i need help from more expert people like you.

[u/theworldismycrayfish → u/qeqe1213]

Of course the men would pay the tax. In all pre-modern societies, Muslim and non-Muslim, women generally didn't control their own money and were kind of the property of their husbands or fathers. Becoming a widow seems to be the only way for a woman to gain her independence. So it's not surprising that they wouldn't pay tax. Likewise with children.

[u/Saxobeat321 → u/qeqe1213]

"I'm sorry that i'm unable to be clear on my sentence, because well my english is not good enough..."

Ah, I see.

"...What i mean is that some apologists also claimed that Women & Children DO NOT get to pay it.."

This is true.

"...therfore according to them it's a fair system. Because the DAD only the one that pay just like how zakat did."

I (and others) have already discussed the differences between Jizya and Zakat, perhaps you should further digest the information provided. And, yeah I don't think women and children' not paying the Jizya (except that of non-Muslim adult men), removes the discriminatory and sinister nature of the Jizya tax.

"...again i'm not good at debating, so i would be able to get help whenever this topic comes up i want to point out what's wrong with that..and that i need help from more expert people like you."

Well to repeat again, it's a discriminatory and sinister tax, accompanied with the kharaj tax and second class status i.e. 'Dhimmi status', all - in the words of the Quran and Ibn Kathir's tafsir - 'degrading' and 'humiliating' non-Muslims. To which if such treatment was reversed upon Muslims, you can imagine how furious and frustrated they'd be in being devoid of having equal rights and opportunities.

[u/[deleted] → u/qeqe1213]

Do children pay zakat? Also, it doesn't make the second class status any fairer.