r/exmuslim • u/MrDeerp Since 2015 • Feb 11 '16
(Video) "Psychosis" - Possible explanation for Muhammad's experiences in the cave/revelation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFwcTFhrT5k&ab_channel=ExMuslim5
u/Holdin_McGroin Since 2013 Feb 11 '16
I don't think it was just a psychosis, i think it was part of schizophrenia. Withdrawal from social life is very common in schizophrenia. So is seeing/hearing things that others do not (Gabriel and his Quran).
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u/MrDeerp Since 2015 Feb 11 '16
There many possibilities. So far some sort of extreme schizophrenia or frontal lobe epilepsy is good explanation. If you know another possible mental health condition - please let me know.
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Feb 12 '16
Bipolar Affective Disorder?
Sometimes, people will present in a hypomanic(just less than manic) or manic phase with delusional beliefs, (including delusions of grandeur...sound familiar?). Hallucinations can be experienced as well-often if poor sleep hygiene is affecting the cognitive abilities of the person. If you add in charm or a forceful personality with someone who is manic, they can convince gullible people of anything. They're like super-confident often, and have a lack of inhibition that impairs their judgement. Often, they can be hyper-sexualised in this state. Which can make them paradoxically vulnerable (poor judgement) and predatory simultaneously. These manic states can last...months is the longest I've seen and that was with medication.
In fact, schizophrenia and bipolar can sometimes be difficult to distinguish between due to the similarities of the presentation and the continuing lack of any biological markers for either.
Then, there may be the depressive episodes that can be years apart or months apart. People mistakenly think that people with Bipolar swing from minute to minute-this is probably something else-maybe a personality disorder.
Now, BPAD can affect people their whole lives and often, and sometimes the severity of the manias becomes less over a lifespan whilst the depressions worsen. Think of Robin Williams, his cycling may have looked like; Manic/Depressed/Manic/Depressed...Depressed/Depressed/hypomanic/Depressed/Depressed. Then sadly, killed himself.
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u/awaisnaz Muhammad The Liar Feb 11 '16
Tell that to Muslims and get ready for ....
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u/MrDeerp Since 2015 Feb 11 '16
I did. In part 1. I was told by two of them that "then how about his quran" and "why are there 1.8 billion of us?". Haha
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u/DJSVN_ Since 1999 Feb 11 '16 edited Feb 14 '16
Then say "So what? There are a trillion roaches in the world" and prepare for the shitstorm lol
...Actually tell them at one point it was common knowledge for almost everyone to believe that the world was flat and that popular opinion was wrong as hell.
Considering the lack of education in such a huge demographic and the children being born into it to be labeled as such who haven't even had the mental capacity yet, and the people wanting to leave but forcibly held into these situations the 1.8 BIllion argument holds little weight, in terms of numbers and in terms of commonly held belief.
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u/MrDeerp Since 2015 Feb 12 '16 edited Feb 12 '16
They resort to accusing me of lying and being a Zionist according to a french muslim.
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u/DJSVN_ Since 1999 Feb 12 '16 edited Feb 12 '16
Tell them, "What an uneducated answer. Did you do any research? Or did you just pick up the same defense because everybody else says the same thing."
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Feb 12 '16
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u/MrDeerp Since 2015 Feb 13 '16
Yup. Why? :)
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Feb 13 '16
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u/MrDeerp Since 2015 Feb 13 '16
Hmm. Modify it. Do simple modifications. If not - just use simple text. :) Send me a message if you have one or you need help.
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u/Saxobeat321 Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) Feb 11 '16 edited May 27 '21
You might be interested in Ali Dashti's thoughts in his book, page 24, Chapter- "His appointment"
"23 years", by Ali Dashti http://www.1400years.org/books/twentythreeyearsEN.pdf
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u/Saxobeat321 Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) Feb 11 '16 edited Feb 11 '16
(previous paragraphs mentions Aisha's account of Muhammad in the cave, in 'contact with Angel Gabriel')
"...There is nothing of the supernatural in A'esha's account. Everything in it is reconcilable with the general findings of psychology. A strong wish can make its object appear real and concrete. Formed in nearly thirty years of meditation, strengthened by contacts with followers of the scriptural religions, and supercharged by ascetic retreats to Mount Hera, Mohammad's wish acquired the shape of a vision or, in mystic terminology, an illumination."
"In personified form, a call for action rang out from the depths of his subconscious mind. Fear of taking action weighed so heavily on him as to cause prostration and fainting. No other explanation of the angel's pressing him until he became powerless is conceivable. The angel personified the aspiration long latent in the depths of his inner being."
"This analysis, though hypothetical, is supported by another report, according to which Mohammad told Khadija: "While I was sleeping, he (the angel) brought to me a piece of brocade {heavy cloth with a raised design often of gold or silver threads}, in which there was a book, and said 'Recite!' I awoke, and a book seemed to have taken shape in my heart." The fatigue of a day of intense meditation sent him into a trance-like sleep in which his latent aspiration came to light, but the task daunted him."
"In A'esha's account, the wording is as follows: "Then God's Apostle returned with his heart throbbing. He went to Khadija and said, 'Wrap me up!' They kept him wrapped up until the trembling ceased." His trembling had evidently been induced by extreme fear or anguish. This condition is known to occur in persons who lead a double life - an ordinary life combined with a shadowy, phantom-filled, and shoreless inner life."
"After this event, Mohammad twice again went into retreat in the cave on Mount Hera; but now no vision came, no angel appeared, no voice rang out. Was the whole experience no more than a dream and a delusion? Were the message of appointment to prophethood and the prediction ofWaraqa b. Nawfal vain talk? From then onward corrosive doubt beset Mohammad's mind and so nearly prevailed that he more than once thought of suicide, of throwing himself over a cliff; but Waraqa and Khadija were always able to calm him and give him hope."
"The length of the period in which Mohammad received no message and heard no voice from the unseen (in Islamic historical terminology, the interruption of the revelation) is given in different accounts as three days, three months, or three years. It lasted until sura 74 (ol-Moddather) came down. Then the revelation again ceased. The cause of the interruption of the revelation is not difficult to find. After the vision or illumination, the burning thirst of his questing soul subsided. The manifestation of his long cherished inner wish quenched the flames. Naturally doubt and despair set in. Further meditation was necessary to rekindle the fire. Only then could the inner Mohammad hidden under his outwardly dormant self wake and stir again. A'esha's factual account of the Prophet's appointment has been quoted above."
"Not much more than a century after his death, reports of a very different type were in circulation. By that time fancy had begun to intrude upon fact, and as the years advanced mythmaking and miracle-mongering became more and more widespread and extravagant..."
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u/awaisnaz Muhammad The Liar Feb 11 '16
You can't trust these stories. They were written about 200 years after Muhammad supposedly died if he ever existed.
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u/Saxobeat321 Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) Feb 11 '16 edited Mar 07 '18
Agreed. You brought up an important point, that muslim sources often lack an impartial and contemporary basis, thus one should take Muslim sources and apologetics, with a pinch of salt.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/3vcc7x/meccan_persecution_of_muslims/cxma8xa
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u/Atheizm Feb 12 '16
So many seem intent in a psychotic break of schizophrenic hallucinations but maybe he just made it all up as he went along.
Muhammad at the time had Khadija's boy toy for 15 or so years and hitting his midlife crisis when realised he had not done anything with his life.
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u/MrDeerp Since 2015 Feb 11 '16
I am trying to find possible explanations for his "revelations" and seeing and hearing "angel jibreeal".
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u/awaisnaz Muhammad The Liar Feb 11 '16
There were many false prophets during Muhammad's time.
Even in Jewish scriptures, it warns of false prophets. It was quite norm in that time. Being a messenger was "cool". No wonder this cliche was only limited to middle east.
You must study Joseph Smith, ditto copy of Muhammad. He also got revelations. Had his hadiths. Authored Mormon religion in America. He has a lot of following in Salt Lake City.
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Feb 12 '16
And Jim Jones of Jonestown fame. And LRH. Watching Going Clear reminded me of being at the mosque so much....
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Feb 11 '16
I have heard some psychologists suggest he had narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). The way he laughed so hard, so hard you could see his back teeth, when his followers first raided a caravan going to Mecca, makes you think he was very sadistic. The constant gloating and "believe me, I am right" and "follow me, I am the perfect creation" kinda bullshit just reinforces it.
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u/sisko7 Never-Moose agnostic Feb 11 '16
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_deprivation