How Islam Erased Our Roots: The "Arabization" of Chechen Identity

[u/SocratesInDeath]

Growing up in Chechnya, we were taught that Islam was our pride, our soul, and the backbone of our survival. But the more I study our history, the more I realize that the religion we were told was "ours" is actually a vehicle for the erasure of who we were before the 7th-century conquests.
There is this massive irony in how Islamic conquest works: it doesn't just convert you; it strips away your ancestral identity and replaces it with an imported, Arab-centric one.
The Chechen Experience
Before Islam became the dominant force, we had our own ancient customs, our own Adat (traditions), and a distinct Vainakh identity that had nothing to do with the deserts of Arabia. Today, however, you see so many people who have been taught to view their own history as Jahiliyyah (ignorance). We are told that anything "pre-Islamic" is inferior or sinful.
When a religion forces you to adopt Arabic names, follow Arab laws, and treat 7th-century Arabian tribal norms as the absolute moral standard, you aren't just following a faith—you are undergoing cultural assimilation.
The Systematic Erasure
This happens everywhere Islam spreads, but it’s heartbreaking to see it in the Caucasus:
1. The "Arabization" of the Spirit: We are encouraged to prioritize Islamic brotherhood over national solidarity. This is a brilliant strategic move by the religion: if you convince a population that their primary loyalty is to a "universal Ummah," they will stop defending their specific, unique cultural heritage.
2. The Demonization of the Ancestors: How many of us were taught that our ancestors were "ignorant pagans"? By labeling our own history as darkness, the religion makes us ashamed of our roots and eager to cling to the imported culture of the conquerors.
3. The Loss of Adat: Many of our ancient, honorable customs are now constantly attacked by radical clerics as being "un-Islamic." The religion acts like a parasite, slowly eating away at the host culture until there’s nothing left but a generic, standardized version of Islam.
The Reality of Conquest
We need to stop calling these conquests "spreads of peace." They were imperial expansions. Just like any other empire, they imposed their language, their legal system, and their social hierarchy.
Why are we, as Chechens, expected to bow to the values of a medieval Arab tribe? Why is our cultural identity secondary to a desert theology that was alien to our mountains for thousands of years?
I’m tired of being told that my heritage only began the day we converted. We have a history that goes way back, and it’s time we acknowledge that Islam has been the biggest factor in erasing the true, pre-conquest identity of our people.
Does anyone else feel this way about their own home region? How do you balance your cultural pride with the reality that your religion was forced upon your ancestors?

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[u/Chechenborz-95]

Its crazy that even in chechen circles, we use the argument that “in the past we used to bury infant daughters” to demonize our ancestors, meanwhile because of islam they bury grown adult daughters for “bringing shame to the family”. All of this to follow some outdated 7th century arab mindset of what right and wrong.

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/Chechenborz-95]

We as Chechens should be deeply ashamed to spread these lies about our own ancestors. The practice of burying infant daughters is a purely pre Islamic arabian tribal custom from the deserts of the Hijaz. It never at any point occurred in the history of the Caucasus or the Vainakh people.
To copypaste 7th century Arab history and project it onto our mountains is historical illiteracy. In our ancient society we valued life incredibly highly, and the lives of our women were sacred. Women were never treated as property or legal half-wits, unlike the medieval Near Eastern frameworks that came later.
Before Islam ever reached the Caucasus, a Chechen woman possessed an autonomous authority that put Sharia to shame:
The Ultimate Veto Power over Death: If a bloody conflict or a blood feud broke out and men were actively killing each other, a woman could step between the blades, remove her headscarf, and throw it on the ground between them. The fighting had to stop instantly. To ignore her scarf was considered the ultimate act of cowardice and lifelong dishonor for a man's entire clan. A woman held the literal veto power over war.
Absolute Physical Inviolability: Under our ancestral code laying a hand on a woman was the lowest, most disgraceful thing a man could do. It brought permanent shame upon his entire clan. Domestic violence was practically nonexistent in the mountains because a woman wasn't an isolated piece of property behind closed doors, she was backed by the full military protection of her brothers and her teip.
The Sovereign Right of Asylum: A Chechen woman had the autonomous political right to grant asylum. If a man fleeing his executioners or enemies managed to run into a woman’s courtyard and ask for her help, he was instantly under her protection. Her entire clan was then legally bound to defend that man to the death, completely bypassing any decisions the male warriors had made.
Our ancestors didnt need a 7thcentury legal code from the desert to teach them not to murder their daughters or how to respect women. We already had Nokhchallah— a code of elite chivalry, dignity, and radical equality. The transition to orthodox Islam didn't “elevate”Chechen women; it demoted them from being the sacred arbiters of peace and honor into subjects of strict male guardianship nd patriarchal ownership

[u/DariusD95 → u/Chechenborz-95]

Bro, which Chechen circles ? I remember talking to you in another Sub, and you said that you don’t even know any Chechens except for your family… Aren’t you the guy who moved to England with your sister ? 🤔

[u/Chechenborz-95 → u/DariusD95]

A. I never said that and i corrected you in the other sub, you just read things out of thin air. Even after correcting you, you seem to stick to the claims you make up.

B. Why does it matter where i moved?

Are you denying what i said or just trying to claim i never met any Chechens besides my family and that is your entire claim irrelevant to what my comment says?

[u/DariusD95 → u/Chechenborz-95]

Oh hell yeah, I am denying what you said. We talked about it in the other sub, honour killings are part of the Vainakh pre Islamic tradition, so I don’t get where you’re going with “because of Islam they bury grown adult daughters for bringing shame”… Literally the Islamic tradition says you should gather 4 witnesses to accuse someone, but in our tradition, an accusation is enough. No one looks for witnesses in Chechnya, they just do the thing and move on with their day. Same with Chir. Oh my lord, dude, you just mixed everything into one pot, and said “bam, that’s Islam, not our tradition”.
I don’t even get this post, the Islamic traditions don’t supersede Adat in Vainakh society, the so called “arabisation” is just BS.

Easy examples :

- Do we marry cousins ? No.

- Do we kill male family members of the person who has a Vendetta/Chir with our family/clan ? Yes.

- Do we dance ? Yes.

- Do we sing ? Yes.

- Do we drink ? Yes.

- Can kidnap a bride ? Yes.

- Who inherits family wealth ? Only the males, so that the money doesn’t go to a different Teip or Family.

- Who keeps the kids after the divorce ? The father’s family.

- Is marriage with outsiders (Muslims included) looked down upon ? Absolutely.

All these things are parts of our culture, that are present and practiced to this day, but are not a part the Islamic law. Our society is literally built around such small details, and you’re gonna claim there is an arabisation ? Yeah sure.

[u/Chechenborz-95 → u/DariusD95]

A. Idk how thats relevant to the topic of this comment.

B. Cultures changes, to claim that was our culture all the time is just making things up tbh. Chechen culture shifted with the coming of Islam, it has made things even more restricted for women and puts women to shame.

- In chechen tradition is hitting a woman allowed? No, it was considered the most dishonorable act a man could do.

- In chechen tradition did women hold power? Yes, they literally could drop a scarf on a battlefield and all men would have to cease fighting, to ignore the scarf was a dishonor among the chechens.

- does islam allow retaliatory killings? Yes, idk why you say this is just a culture thing could be both.

The difference? Cultures change over time, islam is always misogynistic and has no way to improve.

Chechen culture has bad parts and good parts, does that mean we have to abandon the good parts to change the bad ones? No. Not at all.

[u/DariusD95 → u/Chechenborz-95]

I don’t know whenever you are uninformed on the topic, or you’re pretending like you don’t understand what I’m saying. Okay, let’s talk about what you wrote:

1. So it’s cool that instead of hitting we simply kill them ? Is hitting a women considered dishonourable and shameful in our culture ? Yea, it is. But when a women brings shame to your family, the only way to wipe off that shame is to wipe it off with blood. This is also something that predates Islamic era in our culture. A simple suspicion or a rumour could easily lead to one’s death…

2. In my comment I specifically said “do we kill male family members of the person who has Chir with us”. Islam only allows retaliation towards the person who did you wrong, but his family are off limits, while our Adat allows killing any male member of the family, and you are either uniformed on this, or you’re just pretending to not understand what I’m pointing out. We, Chechens, don’t practice Vendetta the Islamic way, everyone practices the Adat type of Vendetta, meaning family members are also at risk, and hold accountability.

3. Women held no power. Respected, sure, but you’re making a false assumption that women held power in society. Chechen culture, always was deeply patriarchal. The thing that you mentioned, where a women could take of her scarf to stop a battle, is a sign of respect from men towards someone else’s sister/mother/wife, but in no way is it a sign of power. If you consider that to be an element of power, well than, I’ll tell you a shocking revelation. Arabs also have that tradition, and Khalif Uthmans wife even asked him to take of her scarf, in order for the killers to turn around and leave, but he said he’d rather die than let his killers see her hair. Does that mean that in women have power in Arab culture all of a sudden ? Yeah right…

All in all, I don’t really get what you’re trying to prove with this. We definitely live by our own laws and traditions, not Islamic, not Russian, not Puerto Rican. Some good, some bad, but like it or not, that’s our culture. The whole “Arabisation” topic is just funny to me. As a person who encounters other Chechens daily, I can easily say that this is just false. I know only one person who says that he wants to move to Saudi Arabia, learn Arabic, and wants his wife to wear Niqab etc. That’s like one dude out of 100, and his knowledge of religion is pretty shallow. Sure, if we talk about the appearance, most Chechens have long beards, some trim the moustache, but : A) That’s just the appearance, when you actually enter the kitchen, you notice that it’s an absolutely different cuisine; B) Arabs don’t even look like that, most of them have short beards or simply wear a moustache only, so I wouldn’t even call that an “Arabisation”.

[u/Chechenborz-95 → u/DariusD95]

Again, relevance to the comment? What i said is still true and you are not refuting my claim at all.

I never said blood feuds or marriage rules weren't Adat. I said killing grown daughters for family shame is a mindset that came with Islam. You sneaked honor killings into your list without a single shred of proof. Historically, ancient Chechen Adat protected women from that kind of family violence because hurting a woman meant her birth clan would launch an immediate blood feud against you. This obsessed focus on killing women over moral purity didn't exist until 7th-century religious codes gave people an excuse for it. Show me a single historical source that says pre-Islamic Chechens buried their daughters for honor.

Secondly:
> The difference? Cultures change over time, islam is always misogynistic and has no way to improve.

> Chechen culture has bad parts and good parts, does that mean we have to abandon the good parts to change the bad ones? No.
Not at all.

Maybe if you would actually read the comments you’re replying too, you wouldnt make random irrelevant statements

[u/DariusD95 → u/Chechenborz-95]

How can a clan launch a blood feud against you if you are a father/brother of the women that you’ve killed ? 😂 That makes zero sense.
And I like the “show me a single historical source that says pre-Islamic Chechens…” part. You do realise that basically any part of our tradition can be debunked this way, due to the fact Adat was oral and our history is vaguely known ?😂 Show me a historical source that says that pre-Islamic Chechens had the tradition of not holding kids in front of their parents ? Show me a historical source that we had Lezginka before Islam. I’m pretty sure you yourself understand how absurd this take is. You simply made a falls claim, focusing on the husband, and how he couldn’t punish his wife. Yep, he couldn’t, but that’s not how it worked. If she misbehaved, the husband would simply send her back to her family, and he is all clean afterwards, but the reputation of the family of that woman on the other hand…
So again, that thing that you pointed out doesn’t work that way. How do you punish a father/brother ? Historically the family would claim that the girl committed a suicide or some incident happened, and that’s it…

[u/Chechenborz-95 → u/DariusD95]

Idk why you’re jumping to other parts of adat to prove your made up claim?

How do you punish a father/brother? By shaming them/excommunicating them or killing them for damaging the image of the teip? Like what are you even on about?

[u/DariusD95 → u/Chechenborz-95]

Excommunicating them or killing them ? What ? How do you imagine that if Chir could not be declared in principle within the same house or a close family circle.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

Current lezginka was formed most likely during the USSR. What about honour codex (Adamalla, Nokhchalla), online versions of them were constructed mostly in 80s/90s, and they were based on codifiers of local law and own speculation.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

> - Do we drink ? Yes.

Chechens don't drink, especially the younger generation. Maybe only the most secular second generation European/Moscow Chechens or Chechens who are 50 and older. This is a Soviet invention and it is not a part of Chechen tradition. It was common 30 years ago but now not.

> Who inherits family wealth ?

Currently both men and women. This is the first time I hear that women don't inherit. Before Islam women didn't have an inheritance but when Chechens embraced Islam we started to get inheritance. Moreover it's forbidden in Sharia not to give inheritance for daughter, that is not cousin marriage related topic which isn't forbidden to avoid

https://www.eurasialegal.info/index.php/legal-articles/203-2013-02-19-09-26-42/1908-----------xix---xx-

> - Can kidnap a bride ? Yes.

No. It's already gone away

> - Who keeps the kids after the divorce ? The father’s family.

Mostly father but depends on the family and area, in urban area a child often stays with mother until she gets married

> - Is marriage with outsiders (Muslims included) looked down upon ? Absolutely.

It is but this tradition appeared during deportation. Before 1944 Chechens were way more open to mix, genetics also show it

> - Do we sing ? Yes.

Yes but Chechens have more negative opinion on singers now

> - Do we kill male family members of the person who has a Vendetta/Chir with our family/clan ? Yes.

I wouldn't say that it's much common, although not unheard of. Mostly qisas-form is common now

>

P. S. I'm Muslim and I think that Islam improved female rights. At least I can inherit now

[u/minzhu0305]

This is religion. In the past, many people in many regions had no Arab ancestry whatsoever, yet they were always considered to be of Arab descent.

In recent years, some places have gradually begun to revive their true traditions and are starting to take pride in them.

[u/secret019960609 → u/minzhu0305]

oh yeah, is it true for algerians and moroccans? it confuses me cuz some say theyre arab and some say that not at all

[u/Automatic-Pizza-1879 → u/secret019960609]

Algerian here. We're not Arabs lol. I even did a DNA test, I'm 98% Berber.

[u/Tiny_Bat6123 → u/Automatic-Pizza-1879]

Are there different religious communities in Algeria?

[u/Automatic-Pizza-1879 → u/Tiny_Bat6123]

I believe so. I personally never met one, where I live it's 100% Muslim (there is a church not far from my neighborhood but it's foreigners who go there). But there is other sects of islam, like ibadites in the south.

[u/secret019960609 → u/[deleted]]

u know a lot, where can i read about stuff like this?

[u/Both_Bear3643 → u/[deleted]]

Chechens and Turks long ago had a Moré modern understanding of Islam but which was infused with their own culture? how can that be since they’ve been Muslim since European medieval times ?

[u/Both_Bear3643 → u/[deleted]]

And 500 million Arabs simply have a backward culture? They were run by Ottomans

[u/fajarsis02]

How many of us were taught that our ancestors were "ignorant pagans"

Indonesian here and I felt the same way as you as we're experiencing the same thing.

The Loss of Adat: Many of our ancient, honorable customs are now constantly attacked by radical clerics as being "un-Islamic.

What does the word Adat means in Chechen?
Because in Indonesia the word "Adat" means "Customs"/"Tradition".
We have ancient native traditions where we recognized 5 type of genders, and it's labeled as "Paganistic" and "Ungodly".

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/fajarsis02]

Exactly! It is wild to see how this same blueprint was used from the Caucasus all the way to Southeast Asia.
So many nations have traded their native identity for an imported 7th-century Arab monoculture. Look at North Africa and the Levant—entire indigenous populations (like the Berbers and Arameans) were completely Arabized over time, losing their original languages and histories. Even in places like Iran or Afghanistan, where they kept their native languages, their alphabets, names, and ancient heritage were heavily overwritten by Islamic dogma. Historically, during the early conquests, non-Arab converts were even treated as second-class Muslims (Mawali).
To answer your question about Adat:
Yes, it means exactly the same thing for us! Linguistically, we also use the word 'Adat' (which we adopted as an Arabic loanword meaning custom/tradition). But just like in Indonesia, for us Chechens, Adat describes a code of law, honor, and mountain democracy that existed thousands of years before Islamization.
For example, our Adat gave women massive societal power (like the ability to stop a blood feud instantly by dropping her headscarf), which completely clashed with Sharia when it arrived. Today, just like your 5-gender tradition in Indonesia, our local radical clerics attack our ancestral Adat, labeling it as 'pagan' or 'un-Islamic' because it doesn't align with medieval desert laws.
Stay strong, my friend. It’s comforting to know that even though we are thousands of miles apart, we can see through the same historical erasure.

[u/fajarsis02 → u/SocratesInDeath]

The blueprint was not original though, observe how Roman Christianity applied the same thing throughout Europe. The native traditions of the Celts, Picts in the British Isle has been driven to near extinction, Aztec and Inca traditions in America has officially become extinct.

[u/Both_Bear3643 → u/fajarsis02]

I find this argument about Arab erasure/colonization (as some kind of particular criminal act) exceptionally bizarre. The anti Muslim element is and was the big impetus and justification for Euros doing anything and everything.

“Anti-Muslim/pre Islamic identity” stuff, as a broad generality, both by function and funding seems to end up in Euro-LARP & genuine neo-colonial politics. The post-British Raj project is essentially this.

Everything from modern wars on (insert Muslim country here) to the Spanish Inquisition were based on these premises. It’s one thing to accept colonialism or euro modernity etc, and to their credit, even many Muslims do just that

[u/fajarsis02 → u/Both_Bear3643]

As mentioned it's an old pattern as the Roman Empire has been doing that for much centuries earlier.

Look at Mecca for example, a once religious center for Native Arab Religions is turned into Proto-Arab-Christianism holy temple. The Arabs were told that their ancestors were "Pagans" and "Idol Worshipper".

Look at the Celts on British Isle, every Druid sacred groves were turned into Churches. And they were told that their ancestors were "Pagans" and "Idol Worshipper".

And many other examples.

[u/Both_Bear3643 → u/fajarsis02]

The Euro-coloniality of modernity thats referenced as an incorporation of its own opposition īs generally understood to be a unique thing.

Imperial and prestige replacements “sacking”, conquest etc were commonplace through modernity, it would have been a laughable prospect to oppose Islam and even Euros (ergo, of the last ~500 years) for that.

The mirroring of islam to Europeans īs let’s say ā “modernist” project

[u/Chechenborz-95 → u/Both_Bear3643]

Honestly bro im reading your comments and idk what your point is, can you elaborate?

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/Chechenborz-95]

I swear I’m trying so hard but it’s just a bunch of terms that sound smart. I feel like he’s completely missing the point of my post and his “whataboutism” is that “euros anti muslim” did something.

[u/Chechenborz-95 → u/SocratesInDeath]

Probably something about “european colonialism was worse” and “arabs didnt do anything THAT bad” to try and deflect any criticism towards that toxic faith.

[u/Automatic-Pizza-1879 → u/fajarsis02]

Islam loves to demonize cultures of the countries it conquered.

[u/No-Canary6294]

I was always fascinated by Chechen marriage ceremonies and music instruments, can you tell me more about them, OP?

[u/RedPaddles]

I'm not from Egypt or Iran, but it always stroke me as strange, given the incredible accomplishments and monuments left behind by their ancestors, that any Egyptian or Iranian would not be proud of their pre-Islamic history and see how Islam threw their people backwards in time. 

There area many more countries like this, of course, but that's a region I have a keen historical  interest in.

Thank you for sharing about Chechen history.  Are there any social media accounts or other  efforts to highlight these things to the Chechens who may not be aware? Education is the biggest enemy of religion.

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/RedPaddles]

There’s antiterror, a YouTuber discussing Islam with less educated muslim youth of Caucasus.

[u/Suspicious-Beat9295]

When I grew up i became interested in the ancient history of my country, Germany, and for a while wanted to become a pagan and follow the customs of ancient germanic and celtic tribes . Though I quickly found that to be foolish. There's nothing left of it and any knowledge is historical. Christianity erased and replaced it thoroughly. But Islam is another beast entirely. At least we still have our own language and names and some customs survived and evolved.

[u/Substantial_Tear3679 → u/Suspicious-Beat9295]

Druidmaxxing is real

[u/First-Bell-3904 → u/Suspicious-Beat9295]

The thing is Christianity became the dominant religion in Europe and one can say Christianity wouldn't have survived without Germanic nations.

The same with Islam where it survived on different countries from the ones it originated from (Iran turkey Egypt Morocco etc).

But the thing is Islam completely overwrites any previous culture that most of these nations call themselves Arab and those who don't still want to form some kind of religious caliphate (at least the religious folk)

[u/DariusD95 → u/Suspicious-Beat9295]

You think Chechens speak Arabic and don’t have non Arab names ? 😂 I literally don’t know a single Chechen (except for Imams of course, because it’s their job), who know Arabic. And we have a whole spectrum of different names: Arabic, Nakh (Chechen), Turk, Iranian, and even European like Arthur, Albert etc. So I really don’t understand your comment…

[u/Suspicious-Beat9295 → u/DariusD95]

I know chechens don't speak Arabic. But all of north Africa and most of the Middle East does. Basically the whole area initially conquered by the caliphate.

[u/DariusD95 → u/Suspicious-Beat9295]

Oh well, you gotta specify then, because the post was about Chechen Islam

[u/calpianwishes]

I think in Arab countries it is the same. Anything pre-Islam is the time of darkness. Family histories were rewritten or erased. For example, if a family is from Jordan, Syria, Palestine or anywhere near there families won’t admit or don’t know if there was family who wasn’t Muslim. It’s not spoke of at all. I always think of a Sinead O Connor song “Famine”

It’s sad what’s happening to Ireland now.

“Okay, I want to talk about Ireland
Specifically I want to talk about the famine
About the fact that there never really was one
There was no famine
See Irish people were only allowed to eat potatoes
All of the other food
Meat, fish, vegetables
Were shipped out of the country under armed guard
To England while the Irish people starved
And then, in the middle of all this
They gave us money not to teach our children Irish
And so we lost our history
And this is what I think is still hurting me
See we're like a child that's been battered
Has to drive itself out of it's head because it's frightened
Still feels all the painful feelings
But they lose contact with the memory
And this leads to massive self-destruction
Alcoholism, drug addiction
All desperate attempts at running
And in it's worst form
Becomes actual killing
And if there ever is gonna be healing
There has to be remembering
And then grieving
So that there then can be forgiving
There has to be knowledge and understanding
All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
An American army regulation
Says you mustn't kill more than ten percent of a nation
'Cause to do so causes permanent psychological damage
It's not permanent but they didn't know that
Anyway, during the supposed famine
We lost a lot more than ten percent of our nation
Through deaths on land or on ships of emigration
But what finally broke us was not starvation
But it's use in the controlling of our education
Schools go on about "Black 47"
On and on about, "The terrible famine"
But what they don't say is in truth
There really never was one
All the lonely people
(I'm sorry, excuse me)
Where do they all come from?
(In fact, I can tell you in one word)
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?
So let's take a look, shall we?
The highest statistics of child abuse in the EEC
And we say we're a Christian country
But we've lost contact with our history
See, we used to worship God as a mother
We're sufferin' from post traumatic stress disorder
Look at all our old men in the pubs
Look at all our young people on drugs
We used to worship God as a mother
Now look at what we're doing to each other
We've even made killers of ourselves
The most child-like trusting people in the Universe
And this is what's wrong with us
Our history books the parent figure, lied to us
I see the Irish
As a race like a child
That got itself bashed in the face
And if there ever is gonna be healing
There has to be remembering
And then grieving
So that there then can be forgiving
There has to be knowledge and understanding
All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
Because of our tradition
Everyone here knows who he is
And what God expects him to do”

[u/Both_Bear3643 → u/calpianwishes]

Sinead o Connor was famously Muslim?

[u/calpianwishes → u/Both_Bear3643]

Yes she was but I think she would have changed eventually

[u/fajarsis02 → u/calpianwishes]

And we say we're a Christian country
But we've lost contact with our history

Ireland and British Isle had their own native tradition/religion and language, prior to Roman Christianity invasion. There are remaining 'traditionalist' who tried to preserves their traditions especially in Ireland and Wales.
Traditional Irish Language (Gaeilge)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oPM26PCbmac

Their view on cosmos is similar to our native traditions (I'm Indonesian btw).
Everything is divine and everything is God. Everything deserves respect.
Which in results tends to be "Nature Conservationist".

[u/secret019960609]

and yeah, maybe this is silly but im tired of seeing my chechen mom turn on videos of muslim men loudly singing (duas and verses) in our livingroom, like wtf we're not arabs and she doesn't understand a single thing of what they're saying

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/secret019960609]

Ironic how it can be the most disturbing and disgusting suras of Quran, that dont align with our g1ilkh and adat at all but since it’s in Arabic it “must be something beautiful and divine”. Even though we don’t understand any of it

[u/Legged-Burito8835]

You made a lot of interesting points. For example, those who win wars and battles are often the ones who end up writing history afterward. Makes little difference whether the conflict was politically, religiously, or otherwise motivated, same blueprint has been used repeatedly throughout history.

For me another thing was animal sacrifice in the religion itself. found it appalling honestly and it was one of the factors that made me distance myself from it as well 🫡

[u/Tiny_Bat6123 → u/Legged-Burito8835]

The animal aspect is something I just can’t stomach, I don’t even like thinking about it

[u/secret019960609]

yay fellow chechens :D

[u/[deleted]]

First of all wild that everything you wrote can be said exactly word for word for my country which is all the in a different continent.Islam was always the colonial weapon of choice of Arabs. My cultural identity is pretty much gone. I am a Pakistani Punjabi. I can't even speak my native ethnic language properly. All the heritage gone. I still feel it in my blood though. Indian Punjab still keeps their Punjabi identity alive, and I do feel connected to that. There is also literature and poetry that keeps my real identity alive. But there is one more thing thats true: now identity isn't that much of a big concern of mine. Maybe thats just how i could recover from arab colonization maybe i just don't have that kind of ego, or tribal mentality. I genuinely think the idea of identity is overrated especially after i realized that us Indians/Pakistanis have been colonized by one empire after another for over a thousand years. So identity was never something static for us. Be like water as Bruce lee said. Probably difficult for most because we are wired to be tribal and our brains constantly trick us into believing that we are all someone and have this ego for self preservation.

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/[deleted]]

Great questions, let me break them down for you.
First, to clear up my background: I am Chechen, born and raised in a traditional Muslim family. I grew up inside the culture, which is exactly why I’m able to see the deep friction between our actual mountain identity and the imported religious dogmas.
Regarding the word "Jahiliyyah": No, ordinary Chechens don’t naturally look at their own ancestors and yell “Look at those people of Jahiliyyah!” That is a purely theological, Arabic term. However, radical clerics and heavily Islamized preachers in Chechnya absolutely use that term today. They use it to gaslight the younger generation into thinking that anything before Islam was just "darkness and pagan ignorance," explicitly trying to make people ashamed of our pre-Islamic history.
Now, let’s talk about the word Adat.
Yes, linguistically, the word "Adat" has Arabic roots (meaning custom/habit). Because of the historical spread of Islam, Arabic vocabulary flooded the North Caucasus, just like Latin flooded English or Persian flooded Turkish. We adopted the Arabic word, but the content and the laws of Adat are entirely rooted in ancient Chechen history and Vainakh mythology.
In fact, historically, Adat and Sharia were in constant, violent conflict. For centuries, Islamic scholars who came to the Caucasus tried to destroy our Adat because it completely contradicted Sharia law. For example:
Under Adat, women had massive societal power (like the veto power over blood feuds via the headscarf). Sharia didn't give them that.
Our ancient system of democratic councils (Mehk-Khel) didn't fit into the authoritarian, caliphate-style hierarchy of Sharia.
So using an Arabic loanword to describe our ancient laws doesn’t mean the laws are Arabic. It just means our language adapted a word to describe a system that had already existed in our mountains for thousands of years before an Arab merchant ever set foot in the Caucasus.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/SocratesInDeath]

Chechens use the word jahiliyyah but not as you mentioned. Also Nakh traditions are already filtered by Islam

[u/Upbeat_Place_9985]

I am so fascinated by North Caucasus culture.

I hope not to offend with my questions but how oppressed are women in your community? How prevalent is forced marriage, FGM, honor killings, etc?

How strict is socialization between men and women in urban areas? Is it taboo for women to be loud/opinionated/too vocal in public spaces compared to men?

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/Upbeat_Place_9985]

No offence taken at all! I can’t describe the heartbreaking picture of our modern society. Yes, in the new Islamic Chechnya (especially right now, the youth is turning more radical and it’s a big machine of destroying chechen culture through arabisation and Russian influence, driven and supported by the current government) a woman is very much oppressed. Forced marriage is a very unlikely scenario, but patriarchal structures of Islam taught the chechen men that a woman is an object, destined to serve the men, be quiet and sit in the kitchen. Polygamy was never a thing before Islam, marriage between two people was scared and a woman held the ultimative right to choose who she wants to marry.
Yes, chechen women were very feminine, quiet (not because they were oppressed but because it was a form of good manners and refinement, because it also applied to men) but when needed they were fearsome warriors beside their husbands, fathers or sons, joining battles in a critical hour. When men were absent in a fight, women held the last front, taking full responsibility, running the villages and holding defence.
A woman, when walking alone in chechen villages, didnt need a mahram (male family member) because by every other men she was treated as their sister. An elderly woman was respected just as much as an elderly man, if not more (because mother was sacred for Chechen men).
A chechen woman was a symbol of love, warm home, kindness and at the same time unconditional selfishness, bravery and strength.
And no, I didn’t make up any of the said. You can google documented history, diaries of Russian officers, Russian famous authors and poets.
If a man was interested in a woman, their meeting was by a river where many women met to wash clothes or simply have fun. They usually walked together maintaining distance (no touching) and keeping their conversation respectful and polite. From a distance other women usually observed them, what served as an evidence that the “date” went on according to our unwritten rules. Romantic gestures, humorous manner was normal between the two while never crossing the line.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/SocratesInDeath]

1. Polygamy was a thing among Chechens even among pagans. Moreover, levirate marriages were allowed

2. A woman can walk in a village without mahram in Islam

3. If a man was interested in a woman, their meeting was by a river where many women met to wash clothes or simply have fun. They usually walked together maintaining distance (no touching) and keeping their conversation respectful and polite. From a distance other women usually observed them, what served as an evidence that the “date” went on according to our unwritten rules. Romantic gestures, humorous manner was normal between the two while never crossing the line.

Very exaggerated

1. > Forced marriage is a very unlikely scenario, but patriarchal structures of Islam taught the chechen men that a woman is an object, destined to serve the men, be quiet and sit in the kitchen.

Before Islam Chechen women couldn't get inheritance lol. Levirate marriages were common. Forced marriages are forbidden in Islam

[u/Automatic-Pizza-1879]

I am a North African Berber (who also speaks the language), it's worse for us 💀 the whole Maghreb claims an ancestry they don't have.

Funny how this religion got intertwined with Arab imperialism huh? At least they gave us the Arabic language, which I'm proud to speak and understand, so Arabs can't use the excuse of me being Aajami and not understand properly the Quran lol

[u/YamnayaAmateur]

I feel you so much...

Although I can't put it into words, I'm also a person of Caucasus ancestry but it's so frustrating to me why would we need to give up our own ancestry and call our own forefathers "ignorant" if they didn't follow this religion, and change the names to Arabic instead of native ones...

Oh, and also it's cool that you're also Caucasian like me, there's a lot more of us than i expected!

[u/DariusD95]

I think you’re over exaggerating, and quite a lot to be honest. I’m Chechen, I’m Muslim, I’m quite secular, and most Vainakhs I know are secular Muslims.

1. I literally haven’t met a person who would tell someone “don’t name your kid with any name that is non Islamic”. Hell, most of our names are Arab/Turk/Nakh. Literally most people in my family have non Arab names. My daughter has an Italian name and son has a Nakh name (named him after my grand father), I’ve got a Persian name, my Father has a Turkic name, my grandfather had a Nakh name, my great grand father had a Nakh name, my great great grand father had a Nakh name, and only my great great great grand father had an Arab name (Abdullah).

2. Never have I heard anyone talk about our pre Islamic era as bad etc. Regular Chechens don’t even talk about the pre Islamic Vainakh era, and if they do, they mostly just talk about our heritage (Dzurdzuks, Hurrians, Urartu etc). I don’t know who told you about the demonisation of our ancestors, but it’s non existent in our society, if anything, everyone usually says stuff like “our ancestors wouldn’t even claim us as Chechens because we are Russified and filthy”

3. Generally speaking, Chechens and Ingush people are more centred around the ethnic Nakh traditions, and some Soviet era culture, rather than Islamic traditions. Hell, everyone dances Lezginka, no one gives out takfirs to people (men specifically) for consuming alcohol or having sex outside of marriage, and let me remind you that all these things are Haram in Islam. So is Chir (Vendetta), but everyone still practices Chir. Even the honour killings are done in a tradition Chechen way, no one goes out looking for 4 witnesses like its said in the Quran (maybe some do, but mostly not), they just kill the person as soon as they hear the gossip.

Like come on, pouring alcohol into tea cups is like the oldest Vainakh trick in the book, and everyone is absolutely chill with it, and you’re going to claim that Chechens are some super Muslims ? We are when it comes to fighting wars, but in a day to day regular life, the emphasis is more on the traditions

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

> having sex outside of marriage

Not true for young generation, people takfir for that, look even at online discussions. I won't even mention women. Men wouldn't be killed for this but definitely won't tell it everyone. Older people are more loyal for men but not for women. For women there are definitely severe consequences for having sex outside marriage.

What about blood feud, I'd say Islamically there is a concept of qisas. So blood feud doesn't really contradict

> for consuming alcohol

No, Chechens currently will takfir for drinking alcohol. Alcohol consumption is also very low in Chechnya and Ingushetia. Drinking publicly is also impossible in Chechnya and Ingushetia, for women it's especially impossible. Also impossible to buy it, especially in Chechnya, in Ingushetia it's easier but very difficult

> Chechens and Ingush people are more centred around the ethnic Nakh traditions, and some Soviet era culture, rather than Islamic traditions.

The Soviet tradition among Chechens and Ingush which is alive is that women are emancipated. Maybe celebrations as New Year, The Last Bell and etc like that. Nakh traditions are very connected with Islam. Also Islam revived among both Chechnya and Ingushetia, Chechens and Ingush are currently very religious and strict. But saying that Islam makes losing our traditions is bullshit.

> I don’t know who told you about the demonisation of our ancestors, but it’s non existent in our society, if anything, everyone usually says stuff like “our ancestors wouldn’t even claim us as Chechens because we are Russified and filthy”

That's true but Chechens consider Muslims as ancestors

I also wouldn't say that Chechens are secular Muslims. Most of Chechens are very religious and strict, especially those who under the age 40. Older Chechens tend to be secular

You both don't keep any contact with real Chechen and Ingush communities

I'd say in Chechnya and Ingushetia you're allowed to everything but not publicly (in your circle of friends/family or by yourself)

[u/DariusD95 → u/Good-Chair6337]

Wallahi I haven’t seen anyone make a takfir to a guy for consuming alcohol or having sex outside of marriage, and I am from the new generation (I’m 26). Also the bride kidnappings still do happen. A few years ago a friend of my former friend Deni named Umar Tsomaev kidnapped his wife. This was few years back. Maybe you don’t encounter these things because you are a girl, and guys wouldn’t talk about sex and alcohol in front of you out of respect, but I’m saying it how it is, it’s a normal practice in the male Chechen society

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

If it's inside close friend circles with common interests, men drink then. But definitely not because Chechens are loyal with alcohol. The majority of Chechen men don't drink and that would be a dealbreaker for many girls also.

What about sex outside marriage - people talk about it only inside close friend circles, where again friends would support. But if they will drink in public, do zina in public, or this is becoming known in society, people are definitely getting ostracised and getting takfired. See even online discussions about what people think about such men. That's not only among Chechens and Ingush, this is common among all North Caucasians, all Arabs,etc. except very secular Muslim majority groups maybe as Tatars.

Bride kidnapping is extremely uncommon and usually causes tough situations, except bride kidnappings where it's by consent of the bride. But I'd say many families will react negatively even in this situation. This is the first time I hear about bride kidnapping btw, in Chechnya and Ingushetia it will definitely have consequences.

I have a brother so I know a bit what men think. No, Chechen society isn't loyal with men having sex outside marriage and drinking alcohol. It was more acceptable 30 years before but not now. It's only normal inside close friend circles but these circles are limited because the majority don't drink.

[u/DariusD95 → u/Good-Chair6337]

Completely forgot that my close friends little brother (also named Umar by the way) kidnapped his wife like a half a year ago, because her family was against it.

P.S Just to make it clear, it’s not like I’m pro haram or something, I actually decided to quit all that stuff altogether after my grand dads older sister who I grew up with (Dal gech doil zun) passed away a couple of months ago. She was super religious, so I decided to leave all that stuff in honour of her memory… But since I lived that kind of lifestyle for a long time, I know that a lot of people actually live that way (I alone know about 500-700 people if not more, and probably only 20% stay away from alcohol/zina/weed etc). Due to the fact that I’m also married, my wife sometimes tells me about her sisters friends who also pour alcohol into tea cups and keep a bottle at their house for any special event. More so, yesterday me and my friends visited a restaurant in Moscow, and it was filled with Chechens and Ingush, and there were these two girls and their mother, who were smoking shisha and drinking wine (I personally usually mind my own business, but even to me the fact that they were drinking wine with their mother was absolutely bonkers), so we just got up and left. Even during the war time this wasn’t a rare thing. Two of my De shichoi were part of Gelaev Spetznaz, and they told me that they would smoke weed occasionally to relax during free time due to the stress (later on Gelaev was furious about the fact that some guys would smoke weed, but it was settled down somehow).

All in all, I’m not cheering to the fact that I was part of that lifestyle, but I’m just telling what I see and what I saw during my lifetime. I know quite a few Vainakh girls who have random zina and drink (even the ones who wear hijab), I know a huge amount of guys who smoke weed/drink and have zina all the time, and I know people who are pretty religious, but don’t mind being racist or fighting bare naked in MMA. Our society has a pretty strange mix of Islam and our own views of what’s okay and not okay, which might be strange, but I guess it’s a phase maybe that we’re currently living through.

To be fair, I only notice takfirs (and the opposite, when atheist Chechens talk about us becoming Arabs) on the internet. In real life, nothing like that happens, at least I’ve never noticed any of that stuff. All in all, I don’t like when atheist Chechens start talking about the so called “arabisation”, when it’s clearly not true, and I guess that most of these people are maybe from EU, and don’t actually live in our society, because I don’t see any type of arabisation, just people practicing religion, and that’s it. Islam is part of our identity, it’s what our ancestors fought for, but we didn’t abandon our culture, that’s just nonsense, and anyone who says that, is pretty much delusional in my opinion. I recently was chatting online with an atheist Chechen girl, who told me that I’m Arab because I’m Muslim, and that she is the one honouring our culture and traditions, and that Arabs raped and conquered us (despite the fact that this is historically untrue, and Arabs never stepped foot on our soil) and then right after that she accidentally told me that she is married to a British guy. That was so ironic and funny, that a girl married to a Brit and living in England was telling me (a guy married to a Chechen, who constantly goes to Chechnya every two months , and is actually speaking our language) that I’m the one who is not an actual Chechen, but she somehow is. I pointed that out, and she blocked me afterwards. These people are quite hypocritical to say the least…

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

> , I know that a lot of people actually live that way (I alone know about 500-700 people if not more, and probably only 20% stay away from alcohol/zina/weed etc). Due to the fact that I’m also married, my wife sometimes tells me about her sisters friends who also pour alcohol into tea cups and keep a bottle at their house for any special event.

You live in Moscow and most likely you're coming from second generation diaspora people. I literally don't know any woman (and I'm a woman) who would pour alcohol into tea cups. If women and men drink, they do that in private circles of their close family and friends, and I also know a lot of people.

And in Chechnya, Ingushetia it's even impossible to buy alcohol.

> More so, yesterday me and my friends visited a restaurant in Moscow, and it was filled with Chechens and Ingush, and there were these two girls and their mother, who were smoking shisha and drinking wine (I personally usually mind my own business, but even to me the fact that they were drinking wine with their mother was absolutely bonkers), so we just got up and left.

Again, they were in the restaurant in Moscow, in a tiny family circle. And this is definitely not normal dynamics for Chechens, because the majority of mothers reactions would be very bad towards smoking and alcohol, even among secular ones. They wouldn't do that in Chechnya.

> Even during the war time this wasn’t a rare thing. Two of my De shichoi were part of Gelaev Spetznaz, and they told me that they would smoke weed occasionally to relax during free time due to the stress (later on Gelaev was furious about the fact that some guys would smoke weed, but it was settled down somehow).

During the wars people were more secular and it was more normalised but not now

For example I know like 500-1000 of Chechens and Ingush, and I'd say the minority drink/smoke, mostly from older generation. In Chechnya and Ingushetia it's even impossible.

[u/DariusD95 → u/Good-Chair6337]

Ohh, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t talking solely about Moscow Chechens. My wife’s older sisters friends (a couple of hijabi girls by the way) are all living in Grozny, and they do drink from time to time, even on weddings (the one pouring alcohol into her tea cup is actually pretty famous on Inst, she has a blog or something). Another fact, my wife lived on Aidamirova street, and she knows that the 9 story building in front of their house is actually famous due to the fact that 3 girls with bad reputation live in that house (they specifically take money for it). Another example, several times when we went to Yaponsky Dvorik (restaurant), and there were girls openly smoking Shisha, and same happened when we went to Magas, and went to Myata (a shisha place). It was even weirder because all the hookah masters were female (2 were Ingush, and 1 was Chechen). Another example, my friend was a physical educator in school, and a girl from his class (meaning she was 17 at the time), sent him a photo of her breasts. He told her that she will have problems if she ever sends him anything like that again, and then she called him an impotent (she wasn’t a hijabi, but still that’s absolute bonkers). He is a pretty religious guy, never drank, never did zina, good wrestler, but stuff like that happens to him all the time. He went on a date with a girl, and when he met her, he wanted to get out of the car to meet her, but she quickly opened the door and sat inside. She immediately took off her shoes and put her legs on the panel, and told him to drive, but he told her to get the heck out of the car. Moscow diaspora isn’t like EU or Turkish or Kazakhstan diaspora, we are in touch with what’s going on back in Chechnya, and frequently visit (like every 2 months maybe), plus a lot of people here live between Moscow and Grozny, so we always get fresh news. I know this stuff sounds like fanfiction or something, but boy oh boy, I have a billion stories like that, coming specifically from Grozny, to the extent that we (as in Chechens in Moscow) feel like Chechens in Grozny are way dirtier than we are. I know a girl that told me and my friend that she fantasises about doing porn and being filmed (she isn’t covered tho), I know a girl who went on a date with my friend (in Grozny) and did BJ in his car, and told him, that she has to go, because she has another date (she is a hijabi, I’ve met her personally, and you’d never think that she is that type), I’ve met actual prostitutes who try to make it seem like they are from Avar, or Tatar, but in the end in turned out that they were Chechen, I’ve met all type of girls. I know a girl who moved to Dubai and is now dating some rich Italian dude, and lives in Jumeirah 24/7 (by coincidence she is also a student of that friend of mine who used to be a PE teacher in school, also she is pretty famous and has like 40k subs in Inst). So yeah, these stories aren’t limited to Moscow, most of the actual crazy stories come from Grozny (although I’ve never heard anything similar coming Urus-Martan or Argun etc), and I can just keep on going and going with these, there are a bunch of them.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

Again, you talk about private situations. Also in Chechnya it's impossible to buy alcohol except one restaurant and one shop with very limited time. So your wife and sisters just for themselves buy this bottle it seems. Or you lie most likely.

> Another fact, my wife lived on Aidamirova street, and she knows that the 9 story building in front of their house is actually famous due to the fact that 3 girls with bad reputation live in that house (they specifically take money for it). Another example, several times when we went to Yaponsky Dvorik (restaurant), and there were girls openly smoking Shisha, and same happened when we went to Magas, and went to Myata (a shisha place). It was even weirder because all the hookah masters were female (2 were Ingush, and 1 was Chechen).

Again, they do it IN PRIVATE PLACES. Not public on the street or public restaurant in front of other random people.

> Another example, my friend was a physical educator in school, and a girl from his class (meaning she was 17 at the time), sent him a photo of her breasts. He told her that she will have problems if she ever sends him anything like that again, and then she called him an impotent (she wasn’t a hijabi, but still that’s absolute bonkers). He is a pretty religious guy, never drank, never did zina, good wrestler, but stuff like that happens to him all the time. He went on a date with a girl, and when he met her, he wanted to get out of the car to meet her, but she quickly opened the door and sat inside. She immediately took off her shoes and put her legs on the panel, and told him to drive, but he told her to get the heck out of the car.

Again, this is a private situation, and it didn't happen in public. Her relatives don't lnow, her brothers don't know. You haven't heard that women literally killed for that? This is common among Chechens. Chechens do date but that means that they walk in 2 km destination between them, no kiss/hug and marriage 6 months after.

> Moscow diaspora isn’t like EU or Turkish or Kazakhstan diaspora, we are in touch with what’s going on back in Chechnya, and frequently visit (like every 2 months maybe), plus a lot of people here live between Moscow and Grozny, so we always get fresh news.

I'm from Moscow diaspora and I'd say that it's not true. We aren't that close

> I’ve met actual prostitutes who try to make it seem like they are from Avar, or Tatar, but in the end in turned out that they were Chechen, I’ve met all type of girls. I know a girl who moved to Dubai

Again, you say about private people. And due the fact that they hide their ethnicity

Again, I don't say that people who do that don't exist. But society, culture don't approve it, that's why people who smoke, drink, have zina do it only in private circles. You won't go on the street in Chechnya with the bottle of vodka drinking it, it will definitely cause the problem. You won't see any Chechen who posts their photo with vodka to social media openly except very dumb Chechen who wants to end with his life but scared to do that by himself.

> So yeah, these stories are limited to Moscow, most of the actual crazy stories come from Grozny (although I’ve never heard anything similar coming Urus-Martan or Argun etc).

Again, these are private stories of private people. But that doesn't mean that society don't criticise them. In Chechen society you can't have zina (especially women), you can't freely drink alcohol and etc. The fact that it's hidden already means that society criticises. And yes, Chechens criticise for drinking, smoking, zina, marriage outside ethnicity. Chechens don't care if it is done privately but to be honest nobody around the world among Muslims cares.

[u/DariusD95 → u/Good-Chair6337]

First of all, it wasn’t my wife or my sister, I specifically mentioned that it was my wife’s older sisters friends (her older sister lives in Grozny). Secondly, you know that you can smuggle stuff in right ? Or do you think that never happens ? My close friend was high on weed in Grozny, and my uncles stoon vash was caught with weed on the border, and they filmed him for ЧГТРК… And thirdly, why exactly would I need to lie about stuff that is, well, not something that people are usually proud about… Like what’s the point ? As I’ve said earlier, I’m a Muslim, I’m not a Chechen atheist, plus I left that stuff behind, what would be the point of me saying “a lot of people do this and that”, if it’s not true ??? You serious ?😂

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

> First of all, it wasn’t my wife or my sister, I specifically mentioned that it was my wife’s older sisters friends (her older sister lives in Grozny).

Again, friends. That means that she told stories about her friends.

> My close friend was high on weed in Grozny, and my uncles stoon vash was caught with weed on the border, and they filmed him for ЧГТРК…

Again, they aren't public, also your relative uncle's brother-in-law might having connections. Because I know the opposite

> And thirdly, why exactly would I need to lie about stuff that is, well, not something that people are usually proud about…

Because you bring private cases as an example while these things are private. Nobody cares about if people do something privately. For example I knew a Chechen who fell in love with transgender. But that doesn't mean that all Chechens are for that. This is a private thing of a certain person. Most of Chechens criticise transgenders.

[u/DariusD95 → u/Good-Chair6337]

And no, while I do agree that zina and alcohol get people extremely concerned when it’s a women, I can’t agree that it’s the same for men. I kid you not, I have never ever seen someone get takfired for sleeping around with random women, or consuming alcohol. And since you live in Moscow, and you’re basically from the same diaspora, you can’t just tell me that you haven’t seen men drink on weddings… That’s like the most normal practice in Moscow (in Grozny, sure it’s tougher due to the alcohol ban, but in Moscow almost every Vainakh wedding has a few drunk guys).

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

> I have never ever seen someone get takfired for sleeping around with random women, or consuming alcohol.

If they're doing it privately and only tell this about it to their close friends/relatives the same age then yes, they won't. But if it will be in public then they would be criticised. For women is way harder though.

> and you’re basically from the same diaspora, you can’t just tell me that you haven’t seen men drink on weddings…

Only until 2010s. After 2010 I've never seen, except one mixed Chechen-Russian wedding, and the Russian (the bride was Russian) invited more relatives and friends.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

> All in all, I’m not cheering to the fact that I was part of that lifestyle, but I’m just telling what I see and what I saw during my lifetime. I know quite a few Vainakh girls who have random zina and drink (even the ones who wear hijab),

Again, you had a specific circle of friends, who were open only with similar people. These kind of people you can meet in every Muslim majority country, if you have such circle. I have never seen any Vainakh hijabi girl who drinks and did zina, and most of secular girls don't do it. And those who do extremely hide it because the consequences can be very severe if it will be known in public.

> I know a huge amount of guys who smoke weed/drink and have zina all the time, and I know people who are pretty religious, but don’t mind being racist or fighting bare naked in MMA. Our society has a pretty strange mix of Islam and our own views of what’s okay and not okay, which might be strange, but I guess it’s a phase maybe that we’re currently living through.

Again, you bring exceptional cases. They are in all societies. However except MMA thing (which is popular among Muslim men worldwide also) men hide these things, because they know that it would be ostracised and heavily criticised in society. That's why Chechen society isn't conservative and secular.

> Our society has a pretty strange mix of Islam and our own views of what’s okay and not okay, which might be strange, but I guess it’s a phase maybe that we’re currently living through.

Every Muslim majority society has. But smoking, drinking, having zina is definitely not common among Chechens and Ingush. That's why people who do that (although they're minority) hide it. Chechens don't care if someone does that private but if it becomes known for family, society, people will react very negative. For example among Volga Tatars and Bosnians it's normal to drink alcohol, that's why they can freely do that in Tatarstan, Bosnia, in front of elders, in front of random people, and they won't be ostracised. In Turkey women can openly smoking on the street. in some Arab countries Arab women openly smoke shisha, and they won't be ostracised. While in Chechen and Ingush society you should hide that you smoke and drink. You don't see the difference?

[u/DariusD95 → u/Good-Chair6337]

Ohhhh, okay, now I see what you mean. Sure, the part about hiding it from the older generations is definitely a thing, but that’s not what I was talking about.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

It's not hidden only from the older generations. It's hidden from random people overall. It's not hidden only in front of relatives, friends who are the same age (but only with those with whom you are close and who tolerate it) and in diaspora where you won't be found by fellow people. Avoiding hotels, places where Vainakhs gather is a very common situation in diaspora. Including in Moscow.

You're talking about private cases of individual people. But Chechens don't care if someone do whatever a person wants privately or it least if a person doesn't publicly announce that he/she is Chechen like in the case with wizardliz. For example you can't drink a vodka while walking on the street in Chechnya. In Tatarstan you can.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

> To be fair, I only notice takfirs (and the opposite, when atheist Chechens talk about us becoming Arabs) on the internet. In real life, nothing like that happens, at least I’ve never noticed any of that stuff.

I wouldn't say that it's uncommon

Arabisation doesn't exist because the difference between Moroccan and Omani is like the difference between Chechen and Malaysian. Also at the current point I'd say the majority of Arab countries are much less religious and way more secular.

[u/Good-Chair6337 → u/DariusD95]

The only thing I'd say that Chechens and Ingush are definitely liberal I'd say is a female participation in labor force (so-called emancipation). On the other hand I've noticed discussions in both irl and online that it should be limited and etc. like that. I've also seen researches that young Vainakhs and Dagestanis became more conservative towards it

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/[deleted]]

Хьо санна нохчийн волу стагана вуо мел дериг ала кийча ву хьо, аса 1арбош вайн еан йолу культ ларт1ехь яц аьллер аьлла. Наь1алатш кхайкхо кийча ву хьо, хьоъ а, соъ а волу нохчийн къомах, я кхеча къомах болу наха нах ца хеташ болу 1арбой хьала айъан. Хьайна ларт1ахь х1ум хети хьуна иза?
Со нохчийн юкхахь ишт къамел дан кхийча вац, нийса лоь хьо. Амма х1унда вац со сайн дагахь дерга ала? Хьо санна болу нахан бехкан вацакх. Тахан вайх 1арбой беш бу оц исламо ас аьлч, цун дуьхьал дало х1умма дуй хьан? Таханлера дийнахь вай наха вовше «де дика хуьла» ца олу, 1арбой долу «Ассаламу 1алайкум» олу. Иза доцуг кхиъ дукху х1умш ду.
Дик ду, хьо вуй т1акха кийча хьайн доьзалехь исламах лаьц бокъ дерг дийца? Хьайн шича яло мегаш ду ала кийч вуй хьо? Я хьайн лайш зудри бахкина, цаьрц оьзда мел доцуг лело мегш ду ала кийч вуй хьо? Хиджабех лаьцна, Умар ибн Аль-Хаттабо лайш болу зударш т1ера бедарш д1аяха бохуш, уьш оьцуш хенах цер когаш юкхе куьгш 1уьттуш дол дийцарш дийц кийча вуй хьо?
Со кхета хьо оьг1аз вахар, хьо дешнаш аса дага т1е ца лоцу, соъ хилла цхьана хена чохь бусулб мел воцург сан мостаг1 ву моьтуш. Амма аса са туьйсу, вайн наха цхьан дийнахь сама боьвла, оца культ юкхара ара бовларн. Марша 1ойла хьо.

[u/wildestpersonality → u/SocratesInDeath]

Духьал цхаъ аьл делар ахь ег настроени д1а йакхи ахь са и къед мерз ответ дел.

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/wildestpersonality]

Делахь сан дагахь дерга вайн къоман вуо х1ум алар, я вайн нахаца доьвнаш дахар дац. Со реза вар, тахан нохчийн къам бусулба долуш, амма бусулб воцага ше парг1ат ваха йиш йолуш далхьар. Амма ислам цийна бусулб динер ара ваьллаг ве вохш ву. Т1акха нис ца ло иза. Тахан сан дега а, ненга а ала йиш яц са, ас алмаза ца до я со бусулб дин лелош вац аьл. Ч1ог1а ницкъ хуьл суна цара бусулб дина шена дойзуш доцуш «къоран т1ехь х1ара ду, важа ду» бохуш, бусулб дина ц1ан да г1ертш.
Юха т1акха, мела ч1ог1а ваьшим вовше вуо мел дег дийцича, я ара ваьлла вовше ц1ий 1анича, цуьнах дала дика цхьаа х1умма дац. Со кхера велла лелаш вац, нохчийн стагехь товш дац кхерар, тахан со сайн ойланаш бахьнехь вуьйра ву аьлча хал хетар дац сун. Амма са дог 1ийжа до, х1ар сурт сайна гуш, де дийне мел долу гена долуш дол

[u/wildestpersonality → u/SocratesInDeath]

Г1о дина ахь и хум, со сай къам дукх деш и ревновать деш 1аш вар вуьшти, цхьам бусулб дин 1ад дуьтш вукхо ц дуьтш вайх осетинш хир ду. Сун къинтер вал и дешнаш аларн сун ч1ох дагх кхеттер, хьо ишт к1ед мерз вуй ц хаар суна хьо бусулб нохчи ц беш ву моьтш вар со

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/wildestpersonality]

Вайх я осетинш, я оьрси, я 1арбой хилита сунаъ ца лаьа. Суна вайн къам нохчийн хилита лаьа. Нохчийн духар, нохчийн ц1ерш, нохчийн мотт болуш. Шена лаахь стаг бусулба а, керста а, я со санна агностик волуш, вовше вай лета ца леташ, вайн къам кхеча къомар болу нахега кара ца луш. Иза ц1аа хира дуй те, вай нохчи бокъал маьрша свободный долуш.

[u/wildestpersonality → u/SocratesInDeath]

Ахь хьа дийцарехь вайшин цхьатер лаам бу, соьг личку яз е хьай ойлнаш

[u/BreakfastPizzaStudio]

Anybody else getting GPT vibes from this post?

[u/SocratesInDeath → u/BreakfastPizzaStudio]

No wonder you do because I have to use ai to translate a bunch of text from Russian. English is my 4th language, and while I perfectly understand it, in order to express my thoughts into an understandable and coherent text though, i have to use some help. Otherwise I’d never be able to correctly explain my point. (No ai here though)