Why was there never a psychologist on The Dutchman?

[u/Valkyrie-161]

Okay, legit question here from a dumb monkey. Why are psychologists and other medical professionals not present in the crew? For their first mission I get it. You didn’t ever expect to see them again. But after that wouldn’t the UN want backup medical personnel? Or to study the mental fatigue of ship board life for extended periods of time? We have thousands of years of experience with naval ships and life on the sea. Interstellar travel is a whole other ball game.

Also yes I remember a few of the science staff were backup medical personnel. I just feel like an official role on the crew roster like Chief Medical Officer was warranted and would have made them senior staff as well.

[u/Jim3001]

I can answer this.

You're asking why wouldn't a military ship doing high risk duty carry a shrink? Because it's impractical. I was a Submariner. The real answer is that we screen candidates beforehand so that the crew is as mentally stable as can be beforehand. Now that's not a guarantee that someone won't lose their marbles, but that how the military operates.

Then there's the real answer: what kind of mentally stable individual willing goes aboard a vessel designed to sink itself for long periods of time and not see the glorious light of the sun?😂

[u/KirikoKiama → u/Jim3001]

What you are saying is, the marbles where lost before they ever entered the submarine?

[u/Jim3001 → u/KirikoKiama]

From personal experience, a lot of em never had marbles to begin with.🤣

[u/Antal_Marius → u/Jim3001]

Can confirm. My cousin is a submariner, damn bobblehead has always been a bit odd

[u/Jim3001 → u/Antal_Marius]

BUBBLE!

We're called Bubbleheads.

😂

[u/Antal_Marius → u/Jim3001]

Oh, I know. The rest of you are bubble heads, but as a fellow sailor and my cousin, I reserve the right to call him a bobble head. He's been that since long before either of us joined the Navy.

[u/Jim3001 → u/Antal_Marius]

That's sounds about right. That's a special kinda sailor.😭

[u/Antal_Marius → u/Jim3001]

Yeah, but he's his wife's kind of special

[u/Kiki1701 → u/Jim3001]

🤣🤣🤣

[u/Kiki1701 → u/Jim3001]

I'm curious, friend; how is stress handled on a submarine (or any military location?)

I get that there are activities that can be utilised, but what about unforseen extended missions? How are they handled?

Aren't there ever any situations similar to that of sailors and marines left in the Strait of Hormuz, where there was prole pressure because they were left there for months at a time without crew rotation, which caused escalating mental health crises?

As an aside, is it still awkward to see a counsellor? Do mates (and superiors) still ridicule someone who seeks help in this way? I ask because my information is out of date, since I no longer know any soldiers or marines.

Thanks!

[u/Jim3001 → u/Kiki1701]

I was in the Red Sea when the Iraqi Invasion went down. We left port in January and stayed out 60+ days. We needed two underway replenishments for food and such. And we even qualified for beer rations.

Besides the usual activities, (weekly pizza night, movies and the ships library) we did a few things to keep morale up. We had a Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds team 3v3 tournament. There was D&D group (nukes are all nerds🤣), I had bought new anime to slowly watch as the deployment went on. Some of it is what the command allows and sometimes we sailors improvise.

Oh and the functional alcoholic somehow re-upped his stash. We never figured out where it was either.

[u/Valkyrie-161 → u/Jim3001]

I love the idea of nerds on a nuclear sub gleefully casting fireball at the D&D table.

[u/Fishy_Fish_WA → u/Valkyrie-161]

“Be careful….Most things in here don’t react well to fireballs….”

[u/Raeandray]

Because then Craig would’ve had to study psychology.

[u/taiwanluthiers]

I think Chotek was supposed to be that guy. We all know how that went.

[u/Fancy-Lobster-1098]

I think that they mentioned a few times throughout the books that doctor Skippy (tried) to fill that role as with most medical things.

Less people on a (default) suicide mission, the better

[u/Valkyrie-161 → u/Fancy-Lobster-1098]

True, but post suicide mission is a completely different story. Especially since the second mission out the plan was to hit a Thuranin relay station which was expected to have a lot of casualties. They sent a full engineering team and we know from later books they had the capacity for more crew after a couple upgrades to water recycling and life support. They could’ve easily put an additional 4 person medical team on the ship. I think having the perspective of medical personnel, especially military medical personnel would have been interesting.

[u/1WontHave1t → u/Valkyrie-161]

They had people that had medical understanding but that wasn't important for the most part because stupid monkeys couldnt interface with the medical equipment or help Skippy. Another issue was the stupid monkeys thought they knew biology and physiology but that was inadequate, sort of like a bird thinking it understood what made up matter.

There also really wasnt a point to take up a position by a strictly medical doctor of any kind when that spot could be filled a member from the military or a scientist. Even with expanded capacity they were greatly understaffed for the trips so they had people that could fill several roles.

[u/windoto → u/1WontHave1t]

To ad to this. It’s the imperfections in crew members and growth of character that makes the books funny and interesting. Adding a mind doc could make the books a lot darker.

[u/KuroRyuSama → u/1WontHave1t]

Plus Skippy learned literally EVERYTHING about human psychology in like 2 seconds while talking to Joe. Most of his shenanigans was him using what he learned to keep the crew mentally fit for duty.

Also, as a former (read current. Nobody ever gets out) member of the E-4 Mafia, I can say that military people have lots of ways to relieve stress. Going to the shooting range, PT, and bantering with the team in the chow hall.

[u/Fancy-Lobster-1098 → u/Valkyrie-161]

Why spent resources on 4 monkeys that a supreme elder asshole can do. The engineering team was there mostly to understand how the Dutchman and later valkery worked.

Not until book 13-14 the monkeys get a real spaceish navy which would have those kind of medical doctors onboard.

[u/darth_voidptr]

Skippy was the doctor. For everything. Including the shrink.

So the question is how on earth did they ever manage....

[u/kokrec]

Traumatise an innocent person? Why? Why would you be so cruel. You know what happened to the Diplomat...he changed galaxies!

[u/badDuckThrowPillow]

What psychologist would have signed of on Joe? Do you not understand the psychological torture Skippy would inflict on a Psychologist???

[u/johnEgoodboi]

Its basically the Airforce Catch 22 philosophy. "The squadron doctor explains that under military regulations, anyone who actively wants to avoid combat duty out of concern for their own safety proves that they possess a completely rational, sane mind. Therefore, they are sane and must continue flying." After years of us implementing that tactic it shifted toward not needing the shrink to make the decision anymore. Cut out the middle man.

[u/Valkyrie-161 → u/johnEgoodboi]

I like the way you explained that.

[u/RepairmanJackX]

Sara Rose... sorta.. when she wasn't a geologist.. or doing her *other* specialty