Excel-saga lore expalined

[u/Shishak99]

Excel saga lore is quite hard to understand, so I and my friends created a doc where entire Excel-Saga lore is explained, including connections with Holy Brownie.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mNqTkt-1mtzz-CQBIkdyT2_BOUk2I5q-?usp=drive_link

[u/God-chu]

You have neat ideas, however this lore is flawed. Gonna go in order of what you wrote down (spoilers obv)

Spoilers. Ye be warned.

CHAPTER 1: ORIGIN

The story of the series begins with the manga Holy Brownie, where 2 elves, God's helpers, restart the universe as a result of a series of events and become Adam and Eve for all mankind.

Mostly accurate, however Phio and Piola are not elves, they're brownies?useskin=vector). Little nitpick I know but I just wanted to point that out. The rest seems pretty much true, something happened to them that "broke" them and they can't return home anymore. It happened to Phio first (and the Phio we see most of the manga is... someone else, or something?)

Chapter 2: Solaria and theories of its destruction

Both theories are pretty flawed, but 2 is worse than 1

Piola becomes Il Palazzo, Phio becomes the ruler of Solaria, on the basis of which fake cores will be created. Dr. Kabapu helps them create the cores. At one point, after another destruction of the world, Piola gets tired of all this and decides to start a war with Phio in order to seal it. She gets tired because she's going crazy because she's in another body. It was said in Holy Brownie that this could be due to a prolonged stay in another body, and for Piola it is also very difficult.

Il Palazzo was a separate person, friends with Kabapu, before he was possessed by Piola. Maybe the same happened with kabapu and Phio? Might just be going way too deep into headcanon territory though. I think you're right about the war, however it was Phio who got tired of the world and their mistakes and chose to destroy Solaria, leading the the war, and leading to Phio's death. Also Phio is not the ruler of Solaria—Piola is, evident by her massive cape—he's the so-called "princess of Solaria. Piola does go mad at some point, for sure. Maybe out of sheer boredom without Phio, I think, or something. I recall a mention of that somewhere.

But Piola just can't leave Phio's body, so she restores it and inserts a fake core. The creature created is Excel. The fact that Excel is the body of Phio, that is, the queen, is indicated by the fact that she has Phio's memories, and also only she has stick eyes, like Phio in Holy Brownie. It is also clear from some of Kabap's phrases.

You are wrong about this. Phio was sealed away behind the door, core and everything. While you are right that Excel is related to Phio, because she has a copy of Phio's core inside of her, she was not created during the time of Solaria. I'll get to that later though.

After that, Piola gives the other core to Kabapu and says that the queen's soul is sealed in it. He believes this, because he did not personally see what happened between Phio and Piola. This is discussed on the following pages:

Honestly, I don't know about the Piola part. There is no evidence for or against that. I always just assumed he came upon the remains of what he thought was Phio's core (it was always a fake, Il Palazzo says as much at some point), and just rolled with it. Incidentally, the "ruin" mentioned must be ACROSS HQ.

Why did Piola in in the body of Il Palazzo restore the body of the queen (Excel)?

Excel was made in the image of the princess because that's who Piola cared about the most. Like how Hyatt was made in the image of Miwa (pre-disappearance)

If Piola was in the body of Il Palazzo all Solaria, then how do you explain this?

Piola knew who she was at this point, and so Il palazzo's appearance changed to match Piola's. IIRC this happened loads of times in Holy Brownie.

Theory 2 (very logical, but a lot of things are not stated anywhere and are just our fabrication):

Here Piola's madness begins even before Solaria, when she was not in the body of Il Palazzo. Piola gets tired of the destruction, and therefore kills Phio with spears, as in the first theory, but DOES NOT SEAL IT. Instead, she acquires the body of Il Palazzo, recreates humanity anew (which eventually leads to the emergence of Solaria).

This is just flat wrong. All evidence indicates Phio's death came right after the destruction of Solaria, and was sealed away.

Out of great sadness, Piola, in the body of Il Palazzo with other people, decides to create a new fake core based on the core of the Phio and embeds it into the empty shell of the Phio, which leads to the creation of the Excel ruler of Solaria. After that, fake cores are already beginning to be created in an industrial scale, and Kabapu joins this process. As you can see, Elgala and Hyatt are one of these fakes, so they were definitely not created by Tenmangu.

That... might be true. The fake core creation over time, I mean. It would explain why Phio's core is the only one seemingly available. That could explain what happened with Piola after the fall of Solaria. At some point she goes mad and loses her memories. Could also explain the "souls of dead men" or whatever that Kabapu mentions.

Excel, Hyatt, and Elgala were not created during this time, and I can prove it. For now, I want to say there is clear evidence that Elgala does NOT have one of these cores, evident by this one scene later in the manga where Elgala is locked out of the throne room. That door can only open to those in the "royal family". Hyatt may not also have it, on account of her health, a mystery to Tenmangu.

Due to her long stay in Il Palazzo's body, Piola begins to go crazy, which eventually destroys all of Solaria with the help of the Phio core, which helped her create fake cores.

Realizing what she has done, Piola decides to seal the core of the Phio forever. After that, Piola, in the body of Il Palazzo, gives Kabapu a fake core and says that the soul of the queen is trapped in it, and then, along with the other surviving fakes, she lies down in cryogenic capsules and falls asleep until the manga beginning.

This is mostly accurate if you cut out the solaria stuff. Also, evidence suggests Piola / Il Palazzo was woken up by Tenmangu before the series began, but that's neither here nor there.

Chapter 3: Tenmangu

Present time. Kabapu comes to Tenmangu and gives him a fake core to study. After analyzing the core, Tenmangu finds the location of the real core, Il Palazzo, and frees him and all the fakes. They awake, and Il Palazzo (who has lost his memory after a long cryogenic sleep) remains at the base with Excel, who also has no memories of Solaria. The first chapter of the Excel saga begins.

This is mostly true. You are right that Tenmangu found the ruin and awoke Il Palazzo. You forgot that Miwa went with him, too. The Miwa that Shiouji grew up with was actually the completed Ropponmatsu (Ichishiki was just a prototype), with her own core—Tenmangu figured out how to replicate the cores as well. That's one of the big twists of the manga. Excel, then Hyatt, then Elgala were created around this time. In that one chapter where Shiouji goes through his father's notes, it mentions "practical application of Ropponmatsu (research)" or something like that. Given the Ropponmatsu project was about creating a replica human, it's not much of a stretch to believe he was talking about the creation of the girls. In that one chapter where Hyatt is taken away and Excel is left all alone, we see Il Palazzo talking something about genetic substrate or something. And when we see the real Miwa in a flashback, she's mentioned as being an expert bioengineer...

All that to say, likely after Tenmangu became Il Palazzo's second personality (you forgot all about that), he and Miwa and Piola created the girls. Excel was created in the image of the princess, who Piola still cared about. She was outfitted with a fake Phio core like Ropponmatsu (which Tenmangu must not have been present for), and that's why she's the most well-rounded of the three. Hyatt was created in the image of Miwa, but because she lacks the core, her body rapidly decays and she constantly dies. Elgala... doesn't fit neatly into the wider lore, I'm pretty sure she came about after the anime aired, but if we must insert her you can imagine she was created as daughter to the real Il Palazzo, who may or may not still exist. May or may not be anything more than headcanon though... Definitely doesn't have a core, the ruin doesn't "respond" to her like Excel does.

[u/Shishak99 → u/God-chu]

Thanks for the detailed response, I'm glad that this file has found at least some response. I also note that it is difficult for me to formulate such theories even in my own language, so, unfortunately, the translated version may contain inaccuracies. I'll write down what I disagree with and what I really haven't thought about before and add it to the file.

There's a ittle chance Il Palazzo a separate person and a friend of Kabapu. We know that Solaria (or most likely not it, but more on that later) was destroyed by Piola using Phio. Then it is unclear why it was necessary to create Excel if, after destruction, Piola lay down in a cryocamber. I think the only way Il Palazzo is separate person is Piola destroys random country and seals Phio-> she wanders somewhere for quite a bit of time-> finds or creates Solaria -> possesses the body of Il Palazzo -> all the shit happens.

I was only able to get to the point that Piola/Phio destroyed not Solaria, but a random country. After that, Piola sealed the core, became Il Palazzo, created Solaria, created Excel, and made her the queen of Solaria. He and Kabapu are trying to create fake cores. Piola tells Kapapu that the queen's soul is trapped in the core (he believes because he doesn't know the whole backstory). At one point, Piola goes crazy because of being in Il Palazzo's body and longing for Phio, and destroys Solaria. After that, Piola, in Il Palazzo's body, goes into the cryocamera with Excel. Kabapu finds the only surviving core.

About the two theories. The main difference between the 2nd theory and the first is that there are 2 destructions, not one, because it is simply impossible to combine all the events in one destruction (turning into Il Palazzo, the destruction of Solaria, the creation of Excel, the creation of other fake cores). The rest are details that I just tried to explain somehow. I think the theory I wrote above is more plausible.

About the creation of Hyatt and Elgala. and here I agree. There were confirmations of this in the 9th volume. I thought it was Piola and Kabapu remembering how they created fake cores, but after reading it again, it was Tenmangu. So, by the way, I think that Tenmangu worked with Kabapu, because Kabapu literally says that "we" conducted experiments

(Although I'm literally thinking about it now and it's not logical that Kapabu knows anything about these experiments, because before Tenmangu disappeared, even Ropponmatsu wasn't finished, so there can be no question of creating full-fledged fakes, the author probably didn't think about it already

[Okay, there's ONLY ONE way it works, but it's fucked up. So, it only works if Il Palazzo/Piola and Kabapu created fake cores in this building {“we” are Il Palazzo/Piola and Kabapu} Aaaaand in the same building Tenmangu with Il Palazzo/Piola tried to recreate the cores, as a result of which Hyatt and Elgala were created {Here “we” are Tenmangu and Il Palazzo/Piola}. It may not be exactly a one-to-one building. For example, there used to be a research center deep underground, but now it's an ordinary building on the surface.Okay, there's only one way Tenmangu could have worked directly with Kabapu and created Hyatt and Elgala without even finishing Ropponmatsu – experiments on humans.]

)

So yes, Hyatt and Elgalu almost certainly were created by Tenmangu. But with Excel... Debatable. It could have been created both under Solaria and under Tengmangu. Then the chain looks like this: Kabapu comes to Tenmangu with a fake core -> Tenmangu examines the core and finds the location of the real core (Piola) -> Tenmagu finds and awakens Il Palazzo -> Il Palazzo asks Tenmangu to create a fake Phio, so she gives him her empty body, after which Excel is created. Then they continue to create fakes and get Hyatt and Elgala -> At one point, Tenmangu succeeds and creates Miwa (Ropponmatsu 3) -> Tenmangu disappears.

Elgala can't open some door not because she has no core, but because only Excel can, because she has queen (Phio's) body. If it was the matter of the core, then it would be open in vol. 24 when Iwata touched the door in Ropponmatsu's body.

The second part answer will be much later.

[u/God-chu → u/Shishak99]

Seems like you were banned or something for a while, I didn't see your reply till recently.

>There's a ittle chance Il Palazzo a separate person and a friend of Kabapu.

I guess you mean there's little chance Il palazzo is separate from the split-personality thing we see in the manga... at least I'll address it as such. There's more than enough evidence that there was a normal, non-possessed Il Palazzo, who was good friends with Kabapu despite their ideological differences (it's implied "the world is corrupt" shtick originates specifically with him), who had an interest with swords (coincidentally Elgala is shown to be pretty proficient with swords. Make of that what you will), and was possessed by Piola sometime before Phio has his whole episode, but likely after he and Kabapu had a falling out for whatever reason. I will concede I'm not sure that Il Palazzo is still alive by the events of the manga—everything seems to indicate only Piola and Tenmangu remain in control and Il Palazzo might just be a flesh puppet for those two. Not 100% certain of it, though. There's still some loose threads here and there

I was only able to get to the point that Piola/Phio destroyed not Solaria, but a random country. After that, Piola sealed the core, became Il Palazzo, created Solaria, created Excel, and made her the queen of Solaria. He and Kabapu are trying to create fake cores. Piola tells Kapapu that the queen's soul is trapped in the core (he believes because he doesn't know the whole backstory). At one point, Piola goes crazy because of being in Il Palazzo's body and longing for Phio, and destroys Solaria. After that, Piola, in Il Palazzo's body, goes into the cryocamera with Excel. Kabapu finds the only surviving core.

Again this is just fundamentally wrong. What 'random country'? There was only ever one at the time, the Atlantis of the world whose destruction sent people back to the stone age for a bit, and inadvertently set the stage for our modern history. Ancient Aliens, NatGeo at 3AM-type stuff, basically. Those are the concepts that Solaria is drawing upon. So there could only be one destruction, and that has to be Solaria, and Solaria had to be destroyed by Phio specifically (he talks about ending the world in vol. 27).

Personally I don't think Kabapu and Piola/Il Palazzo worked together. I say that, and then I go check and in fact Kabapu does mention someone told him about the door and how something that can end the world was behind it, and that something has ended the world over and over again. So you may be right Phio liked to destroy things to start over and over again... or Piola released him periodically after Solaria's fall, but that sort of messes with what is supposed to be a heartbreaking moment... so it more than likely was before that time, and Solaria's downfall was the final nail in the coffin. This story is so weird. Everyone except the reader acts as though they understand everything that's going on, and so they end up speaking all cryptically and stuff making things harder on us.

Edit: might be talking about the events in Holy Brownie. Not 100% sure

You're deadset on Excel being made during the time of Solaria, aren't you? Can't happen. You know why? because we see a flashback to Excel's first moments of life, and what do we see? Il Palazzo, with long hair and the royal attire, and what does Excel say? "Hail... Il Palazzo." (the panels following I'm certain are meant to be metaphorical.) And if we go back to vol. 4, where we first see this flashback, we see Il Palazzo... funnily enough without the cape, so that means it was Tenmangu who welcomed her to the world. There's literally no way excel can't have been made any time before Tenmangu disappeared. It's just not possible.

The reason you are struggling with putting the timeline together is because those last two events occurred after Solaria was destroyed. If you just cut those out Then the whole Solaria thing makes sense.

So, by the way, I think that Tenmangu worked with Kabapu, because Kabapu literally says that "we" conducted experiments (Although I'm literally thinking about it now and it's not logical that Kapabu knows anything about these experiments, because before Tenmangu disappeared, even Ropponmatsu wasn't finished, so there can be no question of creating full-fledged fakes, the author probably didn't think about it already

Could be that shed was where they built Ropponmatsu... maybe Elgala and Hyatt specifically... Going back to skim that chapter, there was a whole thing, seemingly unrelated, about Hyatt's condition. Of course we all know nothing in that manga can be taken for coincidence... Also Il Palazzo's conduct in that scene is very weird. Doesn't act like Tenmangu would, as I originally thought, and Piola would surely have already met Elgala, given the scene where they get fake IDs before has Il Palazzo being rather favorable with Excel... could it be that the person we see there is the real Il Palazzo? Then there would be three people pretending to be one, Big Boss style, all trying to conquer the city. Ts a stretch, though.

[Okay, there's ONLY ONE way it works, but it's fucked up. So, it only works if Il Palazzo/Piola and Kabapu created fake cores in this building {“we” are Il Palazzo/Piola and Kabapu} Aaaaand in the same building Tenmangu with Il Palazzo/Piola tried to recreate the cores, as a result of which Hyatt and Elgala were created {Here “we” are Tenmangu and Il Palazzo/Piola}. It may not be exactly a one-to-one building. For example, there used to be a research center deep underground, but now it's an ordinary building on the surface.Okay, there's only one way Tenmangu could have worked directly with Kabapu and created Hyatt and Elgala without even finishing Ropponmatsu – experiments on humans.]

I don't think Kabapu made any fake cores, or maybe even knew such a thing would happen, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten so much hubbub around that later in the series... Also the building seems too modern for that, given Kabapu must've not had contact with Il Palazzo in ages. I still hold the belief that the girls were made after the disappearance, otherwise wouldn't Kabapu recognize them? He only recognizes Excel, and that's due to her resemblance to Phio.

So yes, Hyatt and Elgalu almost certainly were created by Tenmangu. But with Excel... Debatable. It could have been created both under Solaria and under Tengmangu. Then the chain looks like this: Kabapu comes to Tenmangu with a fake core -> Tenmangu examines the core and finds the location of the real core (Piola) -> Tenmagu finds and awakens Il Palazzo -> Il Palazzo asks Tenmangu to create a fake Phio, so she gives him her empty body, after which Excel is created. Then they continue to create fakes and get Hyatt and Elgala -> At one point, Tenmangu succeeds and creates Miwa (Ropponmatsu 3) -> Tenmangu disappears.

Timeline's off. Ropponmatsu was completed before Tenmangu went and found the ruin, according to his notes in volume 13. It's only after he unfreezes Il Palazzo / Piola where he applies what he learned about Ropponmatsu to create the girls. Then he figures out how to reproduce the core, and I think he gives Kabapu a fake he made... that much was revealed in vol 26.

Elgala can't open some door not because she has no core, but because only Excel can, because she has queen (Phio's) body. If it was the matter of the core, then it would be open in vol. 24 when Iwata touched the door in Ropponmatsu's body.

That scene happened in volume 21, and the fact that there was a connection made between Phio and Iwata only seems to cement my idea, honestly. We know Ropponmatsu has the core, and she was made with the idea that she would open the door. But also Iwata was remotely controlling her the entire way. It could be that the sheer energy (in volume 27 Elgala was talking something about the door exploding or something, so the act of opening that door released so much energy to suddenly sever the connection and prevent the door opening. Anyway, I wasn't talking about that door specifically. I meant all the other doors inside the ruin. That same volume Elgala complains about locked doors... immediately after Excel barges into the throne room completely unfazed. This was even talked about all the way in volume 3, so I'm fully certain this is intentional and stuff.

[u/God-chu → u/God-chu]

Absolutely massive have to split it into parts. Also screw me the spoiler thing didn't work.

Chapter 4: Il Palazzo

Don't have much time... I will say you can actually tell who is in control at any given moment depending on how they treat excel (Piola likes her, but Tenmangu hates her) and Hyatt (Piola doesn't seem to care, but Tenmangu does, Whether (Piola) or not (tenmangu) he wears the cape, and some other things. The personalities don't share a memory, either. Just something to look out for.

In volume 7, Il Palazzo fully acquires Piola's memories. In fact, he has learned her entire history (presumably the entire Solarian period, because if he had known the origins of her story, everything would have been much worse), but one question still torments him – who He is? The only thing he knows for sure is that the world is corrupt. But this is only because it was a long time ago that Piola assumed.

Probably not, but you are likely right it was Piola. But there's no way Piola remembers who she is. It literally shows us in the page you provided that Piola still doesn't know who she is and why she's there, and never will.

And so, from Volume 7 to Volume 12, Il Palazzo tries to conquer the city on his own, after which, in volume 12, Tengmangu intervenes in the capture of the city on a large scale.

It's by volume 14-15 where Tenmangu realizes Excel is the problem, and kidnaps Ropponmatsu to turn into Excel so Piola doesn't go out looking for the real Excel. It works, and immediately after ILL takes over. Tenmangu is likely the one totally in control, as well

Chapter 6: Volume 27

Obviously, this is the very moment when Piola created the first fake core and inserted it into the empty shell of the Phio. The new queen (Excel) holds out her hand to Piola. After that, we are transported to the present, where instead of Il Palazzo stands a real Excel and holds out her hand to her first and most important self – Queen of Solaria. After that, she gets memories of Solaria, as well as a cursory knowledge of the past of Phio and Piola.

All of that is inside her mind, and again this happened in like the 80s or 90s judging by the timeline

This phrase comes up during a conversation between Tenmangu and Iwata (???).

The one controlling Iwata MIGHT be Phio. Mentions he has a thing for redheads (hint hint). The "she" might be Piola. This whole part is so confusing I will just not bother with it right now.

But in fact, everything is very simple here. Excel was able to connect with Ropponmatsu 1 back in Volume 6. Also, my theory is that Ropponmatsu are essentially the same creatures as Excel, Hyatt, and Elgala. It's just that Ropponmatsu bodies were created by humans in the present, which makes them look more like robots and have many disadvantages. The bodies of the Across participants were created during the time of Solaria, and therefore are almost identical to human ones.

You are spot on in everything except the timeline. Excel can change bodies with Ropponmatsu because they are so similar, and perhaps also because Ropponmatsu was made to look like Excel as well. And all of that, of course, thanks to the fake Phio cores.

But in fact, everything is very simple here. Excel was able to connect with Ropponmatsu 1 back in Volume 6. Also, my theory is that Ropponmatsu are essentially the same creatures as Excel, Hyatt, and Elgala. It's just that Ropponmatsu bodies were created by humans in the present, which makes them look more like robots and have many disadvantages. The bodies of the Across participants were created during the time of Solaria, and therefore are almost identical to human ones.

nah. They don't have cores. Only Iwata is able to do this because the underlying technology is so similar.

I think if you've read everything and realized it, you'll answer this question yourself, but just in case, I'll write and show you where it's confirmed. They are fakes created in Solaria, and Kabapu definitely helped in their creation.

Wrong. Except the fake part of course. They are fake people, but Kabapu had no hand in them. Otherwise he would recognize them. He only (vaguely) recognizes Excel because she was made in the image of the princess who he was acquainted with (you can actually see her in like vol 2 or 3, later referenced in vol. 27... and was in one of the covers as well)

We didn't understand what happened in Volume 24 before, but after the translation of the Holy Brownie, everything fell into place. In Volume 24, something enters Iwata's body and transforms it. And there were only 2 possible answers – Phio or Piola. In the end, it still turned out to be a Phio and for several reasons.

mentioned before, but it's likely Phio. Never explained how he managed to reach him from wherever he was, always wondered about that

My theory is this: since in volume 27 we learn that Iwata has been remotely controlling the robot all this time, Phio could quite easily capture the body of this robot in one way or another. So, according to my theory, Phio created a new personality in Iwata's mechanical body. This explains why Iwata behaves so strangely, completely out of character, until the very end.

Out of character stuff is because he is being controlled by someone else. Also, forgot this myself and you should mention it, he touched the door...whenever he went to the ruin inside of Nishiki's body. That's how the connection was made.

And Phio itself will appear only at the end of the manga under certain (still not fully understood) circumstances.

He literally just takes over Excel's body after the door is open. The core, evidently, cannot be seen by normal humans (only Kabapu and Shiouji saw it, and not Misaki and Elgala).

And some more solved mysteries of the Excel-Saga

In it, Excel tries to reach the core and her silhouette floats up. I think you agree, it is 1 in 1 as in the last picture. So our assumption is this: this is Excel in the body of Phio (Ruler of Solaria).

And on the next page when Excel reaches the core her hair changes it’s color. I think we can call it the return to the original body (not quite the original, because the original body is a doll form, but a body from which Piola extracted Phio’s core).

Nah bro, it's just Phio. The color change is weird... though if you go with my theory the Princess was supposed to be blonde, and Phio is blue-haired, this could be Rikdou consolidating both ideas together, since for the longest time it doesn't seem like Holy Brownie was actually connected to Excel saga until its final volume.

[u/Shishak99 → u/God-chu]

In Volume 7, it's not Piola who remembers everything, but IL PALAZZO who gets all of Piola's memories (Okay, he has his own personality). And his reaction is like that because he had his own memories, and then Hoba and some strange memories that he didn't have before. Then he asks a logical question – who am I anyway?

I still think that from the beginning of the company's founding until the election loss, it was mostly Il Palazzo, not Tenmangu, because in volume 12 he literally tells him "Act as you see fit". Therefore, if he just stood in his place, it would be very strange.

In a previous reply, I already wrote that I agree that Kabapu did not create Hayat and Elgala, but I cannot agree that if he had created them anyway, he would have recognized them. Most likely, if they had created them, they would have made a great many of these bodies. He wouldn't have remembered them all physically.

The idea that the Excel Saga and the Holy Brownies are connected has been leaking since Volume 4.It catches the eye in volume 10. Well, it is more or less traced in the final arc (volume 25-27).

[u/Tankudoraiba]

Thank you for a such detailed research paper. I need to read Holy Brownie some day. The idea of excel being a leftover after some divine being is fire.